Posts made by Corngold

I've been trying to find "rational criticism" of Peat's dietary thinking. I say "rational" because most opinions I read are either totally dismissive and mocking of Peat, or, totally uncritical and accepting of everything he said.

I found an interesting long-form article/critique here:

https://optimisingnutrition.com/ray-peat-diet/

Some of the points are off-base, but others are pretty fair. For example, the author speaks about high fat and high carb mixture, which is dangerous:

"But as we can see, the percentage of total calories from protein (protein %) is just 12%. This leaves our calories from fat and carbs at 35% and 52%, respectively, which aligns with the hyper-palatable fat-and-carb danger zone that is the least satiating. This is pretty close to the hyperpalatable micronutrient profile of ultra-processed foods like a doughnut or cookies, which provides tons of energy but leads most people to overeat and gain fat."

I understand in theory what he means, but the first thing that struck me is that he isn't mentioning PUFA when comparing fat and carb mixture to "a doughnut." A donut is deep-fried in PUFA oil, then covered with typically PUFA-seed oil sweetened icings - not even real sugar!

It's an apples-and-oranges comparison, in my opinion.

Same thing when he mentions iron - saying Peat recommended limiting muscle meat. Ok, true enough, but he also claims Peat limits eggs, liver, and meat in general. Furthermore, he doesn't seem to acknowledge that nearly all foods have been fortified with high levels of iron and other minerals that, while essential in theory, are likely being over-consumed.

Finally, he makes other claims about nutrient density/availability, things like this. "Honey isn't nutrient rich," etc. First, I don't think that's true. Second, it seems to me that Peat was viewing these as tools or parts working within a mechanical system. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't agree 100% with a "mechanical" view of nature, and think it is outdated.

I take a middle-road between the author's view and Peat's, in that it's really difficult to say which minerals and vitamins are "necessary" given that the complexity and depth of interactions are unknowable. And I'm not a scientist or nutritionist, so would have even less ability to dig into this meaningfully.

Again, the article seems to have a slight tone of straw-man-ism; I don't think Peat ever said Iron was unnecessary or should be removed totally, just like pufa, tryptophan, estrogen, serotonin, etc. None of these things are bad in themselves but, arguably, very much the product of the food-environment we inhabit in the post-1950s world. What I think is that Peat only expressed ideas about limiting these because of the damage they appear to be causing. I'm always open to other theories of degenerative disease, worsening health, etc. The author doesn't seem to have read much of Peat's work to understand how all of these things relate and why certain foods and ingredients, for that matter, are viewed with scrutiny.

At the same time, I'm trying to think critically about the Peatarian ideas as I eat and plan meals. Generally what has been working is high-carb. I don't see too many problems with starches like bread or potatoes, despite Peat's ideas. I don't like OJ and have felt no better drinking it. I've reduced and avoided pufa/dead-food consciously and can say I feel a difference there. I've only had a few experiences where I think my blood sugar was a bit high for too long, due to coke, fruit, etc. but to me, the irony is that I've never felt that sort of dizzy, energetic sensation before because I've always limited sugar, as I was taught sugar is terrible for one's health. Meals with a lot of fat or protein weigh me down, and I suspect part of this is related to the fact I'm not eating lots of protein or fat on a daily basis.

Last, I think food-combinations are very interesting. Honey and yogurt, for example, work in tandem, as honey helps transport bacteria to the gut. Whether or not this is good doesn't exactly matter, because it reaffirms Peat's thinking on inter-relationships, action and counter-action, etc.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/honey-helps-yogurt-bacteria-survive-digestion

@dapose said in Donald Trump defies the laws of aging. A fat, garbage food eating insomniac conquered the world at 78 (politics aside):

On purpose. His look and language fits his message. Big boss gonna take charge not afraid of little things like French fries and I own the place etc…

This is why I think he has captivated most of the country (seems he won 2020 but the steal was the covid wakeup plan; if 2024 votes are "correct" than I think it reflects that the opposition was built to favor him). At the same time, Obama captivated many of the same people in 2008. Obama was the opposite in that he was very eloquent and slick. Many people bought him hook line and sinker just like many people buy Trump's old-school left-wing populism.

"America First" was the name of Gerald K. Smith's party he ran on as a presidential bid in 1943 and 1944. He was friends with Huey Long who opposed FDR and was "assassinated" (whether real or hoax, not sure). Wiki and other sources say he was "anti-semitic" and "white supremacist" or whatever.

It reminds me of Trump and David Duke and all of the media narratives since 2016. Very similar, and I think Smith was a controlled opposition just like the KKK - he started the Christian Nationalist Crusade and spoke and wrote about the Jewish Question. Anyways, Trump hasn't done this, because he loves Israel, but the groypers and "paramilitary" supporters are big on the JQ, trad Christianity, and ironic/astroturfed racism, which once again demonstrates that his base is being wrangled in to support something they in theory reject. The same president who loves Hindus, Jews, blacks, Latinos, etc., also has a base of "racist" white people. Either this is a distortion or his followers are in denial of what DJT stands for? I don't know, just my stupid ramblings.

@onliest
As the media said years ago it will be through a new "big lie" though maga is a big lie in itself.

@S-Holmes said in What do you guys think of Trump now that he won:

Keep in mind that there were no wars during Trump's first term. We had 4 years of peace.

I don't think this is true. There is ongoing drone warfare...Somalia, Yemen, probably Syria, Iran. Obviously all of our billions that go to Israel directly fund their wars on Palestine and elsewhere.

@dapose said in Donald Trump defies the laws of aging. A fat, garbage food eating insomniac conquered the world at 78 (politics aside):

Ray always talked about this, mentally, but trump is truly living it.

Politics aside, of course, but he also uses child-like language: simple words repeated ad nauseam: a reflection of the child-like metabolism of eating Mickey D's and flying around on a private jet?

@Mulloch94 said in Has anyone felt worse after eating seed oils?:

Pizza can be difficult, finding a local pizzeria that makes their dough fresh would be the best option.

I make homemade dough and pizza and the biggest problem is not eating all of it, and not eating it with Coke...straight into a coma if I mix the two.

@BioEclectic

Get duck fat or tallow and bake the potatoes in the oven.
Yeah it's mufa or pufa, but it's a lot better than deep frying or fast food. Tastes incredible, especially tallow.

@VehmicJuryman said in Has anyone felt worse after eating seed oils?:

Foods deep fried in PUFA oils are without a doubt the worst thing in the modern diet and should be avoided 100%. This really shouldn't be controversial on a Ray Peat forum. Peat always recommended getting as close to completely eliminating PUFA as possible.

I think when one reduces pufa, pufa cravings also reduce. The less fried you eat, the less you want it. I imagine it's positive feedback with good food too - that you start craving things you habitually eat.

This is one perhaps "paradox" of Peatism, and that is that I crave honey and cheese and fruit a lot more now. At the same time, I accept these are far better than General Tso's Chicken or other abominable delicacies. I suppose it's that we want to make cravings work for us instead of the other way around. The other way around is now evident in every facet of the modern world/economy.

@BioEclectic said in Has anyone felt worse after eating seed oils?:

Was at a relative's home and had their otherwise excellent homemade sausage for dinner, just some and not too much. 20-30 minutes later my guts got very tight, almost a stomach ache. It stayed that way for hours. I had found out later that evening that it was fried in corn oil.

Yes - this 100%. The chic-fil-a disaster for me was like a gut-pinching feeling. Didn't want to move or walk, felt energy declining, body temperature probably lowered, and got cold.

I think 100% the key thing is that over time we get accustomed to these chemicals, so we don't feel the "shock" that it is actually causing... maybe Peat said this but I know it's true now. We have a tolerance to this really ugly stuff, and rarely feel "health." And then of course the old weight loss motto of "eat less move more" and also the Super Size Me superficially made people aware of "processed food." I think diet sodas or energy drinks are filling the void of energy created by pufa. And if the Randall Cycle is nuked, then regular pop is going to convert to fat and contribute to the problem though offering temporary relief from the pufa symptoms.

@dan-dominic

Yes.
Like a year ago, started experimenting with different Peat things like oj and more limiting pufa.
Went to chic-fil-a, got a small breakfast chicken biscuit, tots, coffee. Felt like absolute garbage the rest of the day. Stomach ache, brain fog, slowness, etc. Sure, this is way more than just pufa or cooking oil, but damn. I've really limited fast food after that.

Butter definitely is satiating and energizing, maybe not great but way better than seed oils. I like olive oil but only in specific foods/recipes.

This is probably old news but it goes with other pufa items. I think I've even noticed it with store breads that use small amounts of pufa oil. Probably not a great product overall, and I think it has those effects at a lesser level than fried stuff.

I'm wondering if gut endotoxin-serotonin and pufa is also related to abdominal fat/water retention?

@sneedful

Exactly. A la the "carbon credit" scam. Also we probably have too much low quality forest today. With chemtrails too, this is a planned toxic environment.

@Androsclerozat

All good points. What little we can do is in our power.

@Insomniac

All the typical Peat things. Lots of calcium, good sugar/carbs, nasal breathing, fruit, sunlight. I think overnight "fasting" is ideal... maybe earlier dinner and being hungry when waking. I don't take supplements but aspirin always helps pain/inflammation and the attendant stress and mental anger/depression that accompanies physical pain.

@16charactersitis

Exactly! The good old days lmao... retvrn!

@16charactersitis

I love it but it's $7 for 48oz... 20 oz is like $2, so it's nearly twice the cost. Good root beers and other cane sugar pops are like $5-6 for 48oz. I wonder what he thought about root beer? I know cola has citrus extracts and spices, which I think are good. Root beer mostly just has a few root extracts and sugar. Fentimans pops are amazing but expensive - they have a Dandelion Burdock pop.

I thought I was going crazy because the killers in Capote's book In Cold Blood are always drinking root beers and taking aspirin and smoking. Peaty.

@Androsclerozat said in Donald Trump defies the laws of aging. A fat, garbage food eating insomniac conquered the world at 78 (politics aside):

During communism in Romania, the dictator built industry and warehouses all over the country, even my small town of few thousands had a few. People were living in rural areas working their normal jobs close to home. Now it's the opposite, the West came, all industry destroyed and created new ones only in big cities.

That is a sad story though it's believable. It's a vicious cycle. Entire cities and states in the US are basically destitute because of what happened forty years ago outsourcing automobile and other manufacturing, coal, gas, etc. The USA is technically an incorporated entity; DC, London, and Vatican are autonomous city-states as well and all connected, not to mention Switzerland $$$.

From what I've read Obama took office and race crimes increased a lot, black on black, black and white, etc. He basically created a new "race" agenda in a post-racial culture. There is supposedly a lot of other damage Obama did (really screwed Veterans healthcare/hospital operations; laundered billions to sham foreign "green energy" companies) but I'm not sure it's really unique compared to any other president including Trump of course.

@Androsclerozat said in Donald Trump defies the laws of aging. A fat, garbage food eating insomniac conquered the world at 78 (politics aside):

I didn't know about Broadacre City, sounds interesting. Why do you think it's not applicable in the real world? Is it because of the government or the idea itself is not brilliant enough?

Reply

An article on the architect's plan:
https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/frank-lloyd-wrights-utopian-dystopia

an excerpt:

"Even in the 1930s, urban planners were disgusted by Broadacre. Its philosophy was deeply individualistic; its layout was conspicuously wasteful. Liberals of the time who emulated the socialist spirit of Europe classified Wright as an anti-government eccentric, which indeed he was. In 1938, Marxist art historian Meyer Schapiro condemned Broadcre City as “perfectly consistent with physical and spiritual decay.”

This pretty much says it all. Urban planners want maximum utility - whether socialist or fascist. Apparently socialists considered it anti-government because it would be closer to self-sufficient and decentralized / autonomous cities ("republics" if you will).

I guess Schapiro thinks open space, autonomy, and "working with nature" are signs of spiritual and physical decay.

In reality market forces would never let this happen. I think it's quite literally an example of why even small things like walkability, trees, night-sky visibility, grasses/pastures non-"productive" or non-extractive rural land are incredibly rare now.

Even in a country like the US, the big shareholders and corporations would take major losses if people self-organized into unique communities. They would not be in control. That's it. I think whatever we're calling "government" are really just oligarchs or barons of industry; they have to get theirs. And I suppose that's why they're governing and marketing down to the cellular level with drugs and diseases.

At the same time, I'm pretty cynical and think our society is a mirror of human nature. The big lies of our time are also the product of cynicism about human nature, not lacking shortsightedness about the failures of human nature. Sort of like the pharmaceutical industry; any new discovery can spur research into a drug to cure the thing, but it just exacerbates the disconnection between doctor and patient.

@16charactersitis

Hm.. I'll look into this. I think the Randall Cycle is more important in this case, then (not even considering glyphosate or other hypotheses with corn products - I see karo regular corn syrup doesn't say "bioengineered" so I wonder if these are actually regular fructose? been wanting to make homemade cola).

All I know is I've been able to drop excess weight and/or water weight eating higher sugar and carbs and low fat. I stopped eating protein/fat lunches and went for more fruit and pop and cheese and have way more energy. I realized when I would buy a coke I could finally get through the day without wanting to nap or getting a headache. I think I do pretty well with starch because I eat bread and potatoes often. I think being aware of the Randall Cycle also helps me think through and avoid the "swamp" tendency that is ubiquitous in the American SAD diet.

But again, the pop hfcs issue I think is totally tied to the swamp eating issue and pufa / fried food, donuts, etc. Almost nobody eats fruit and drinks pop; they're eating fried chicken and pop or donuts, or fast food burgers, etc. I'm not yet convinced that pop is as bad as they say it is.

@Androsclerozat said in Donald Trump defies the laws of aging. A fat, garbage food eating insomniac conquered the world at 78 (politics aside):

If authority could be used in a way that disguises the control forced upon the population so they feel less repressed, then it could be an answer, but I don't know how.

Isn't this just the "noble lie" or "big lie" of Platonism? The problem is we're debunking our "big lie" now, and we need a new "big lie" to correct the old one. But there are always "big lies" being debunked and new ones created.

Again, I think the feeling of repression / oppression falls into the Stoicism category of finding constraints and working within that. And that's why I think politics has been so enticing since at least Obama but probably since ancient times. The rulers equate themselves with the stars and planets that also basically tell the stories of every major religion. I'm led to believe many things worsened under Obamna's reign, which Trump was set to "fix" as an opposition. Things got worse, and O'Biden paved the way for the redemption arc of The Don.

@Androsclerozat said in Donald Trump defies the laws of aging. A fat, garbage food eating insomniac conquered the world at 78 (politics aside):

If the population would be fully awakened regarding the whole system, they will become less materialistic, healthier, calmer, more sociable, cooperative and with a desire to go off-grid to fully isolate or least they would choose small cities.

When is one "fully" awakened?
The "off-grid" thing is somewhat of a fantasy, but I like the idea of Broadacre City. At its core, it was very revolutionary and pretty "socialist" or utopian/communitarian. It was roughly the idea for decentralized suburban centers that were self-sustaining. Good in theory, near impossible in practice.

Even today, people can choose smaller cities. But when the smaller cities grow, they are incentivized to become like bigger cities, see bigger investments, foreign influence, become dead, grey, soulless, low-trust, etc. At least in this 100+year federal/capitalistic-libertarian system.

Even Texas is upset about liberals from California and elsewhere moving there. It isn't really about "voting," any more than the dollar is the true "vote." They "vote" the natives into oblivion, so a careful exchange or osmosis of culture is impossible (even within ethnic homogeneity).

Last thing is this goes back to energy. Frank Lloyd Wright probably would have supported decentralized energy production through hydro, solar, or nuclear, because it would have been a means to the end of this utopian suburban vision. It is a continuation of the utopian thinking in various European Catholic, Puritan, Anabaptist, Mennonite, Quaker, Shaker, Amish, sects. Even the cults of the 50s, 60s, 70s factor into utopian idealism.