Cancer
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On lactic acid and cancer
Andrew Murray: What do you think of lactate testing as a means to ascertain whether somebody truly is under stress and what would be the best way to do it? I mean, at what time of the day or would that have a bearing on how much lactate was present in a blood sample?
Ray Peat: Yeah, probably the time that you're feeling the stress would be the best time to measure it. If you do it when you're fasting, you're going to get a different measurement. You just have to know what time of day and what the circumstances are. But it's increasingly being used, for example, to diagnose cancer and monitor the progress. When the cancer is being regressed, the lactic acid in the serum goes down.
Andrew Murray: Do you have any idea what kind of state of development of a tumour that lactic acid would be increased?
Ray Peat: It starts showing up in the blood at a very early stage. At a certain point, I don't remember the exact concentration, but it in itself causes an inactivation of the immune system that should be helping to correct the cancer. Even before that, it can be seen as a product of cancer.
Andrew Murray: I expect somebody would probably have to have not just one spot check, but several over a period of weeks, just to see whether or not the level of lactic acid in the body was holding fairly stable, it was stably high, or whether a high reading may be just an aberration due to something.
Ray Peat: Since everyone over the age of 50 has cells that can be diagnosed as cancer, it's a good idea not to be panicked by any measurement that could indicate cancer. It's simply a sign. For example, if you ate something very disagreeable, your lactic acid would go up just from the general inflammation. So you want to take everything in context. Even if it's being produced by a cancer, most cancers don't kill people. In adults, if you look carefully enough, you can find cancer-like cells everywhere in everyone of middle age or more. So it's something that's naturally being cured spontaneously.
Andrew Murray: And this is in the same vein that cells are constantly communicating with each other. They're not blind or dumb. They're completely autonomous and are actually able to communicate with each other and change the environment in which that particular area is subject to.
Ray Peat: I think that same thing applies to the degenerative nerve diseases and all of the age-related, stress-related diseases. I think there's not an all-or-nothing definition of the disease. If you notice a trend starting that doesn't look favourable, then it's time to change the way you live.
Andrew Murray: Okay. So if carbon dioxide is analogous to an antilactate, as you've mentioned, what would be the best method to raise this and how long does that effect last?
Ray Peat: Everything that keeps your free fatty acids from being released, and those are released by too much adrenaline, for example, many of the hormones, pituitary hormones in general help to increase the toxic free fatty acids. And everything you can do to lower the stress hormones, aspirin, for example, is a good anti-inflammatory, anti-stress agent. Vitamin E is another protective, ascorbic acid. Ordinary foods provide abundant amounts of ascorbic acid, so I don't recommend that as a supplement in general.
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“Cortisol elevates blood glucose and would inhibit the thyroid. Since there is evidence of thyroid deficiency in various cancers, and since thyroid supplementation reduces the incidence of spontaneous or induced tumors in animal studies, thyroid therapy would be desirable in cancer, especially if there is cachexia. Gerson,2 Tallberg,3 and others have reported good results from using thyroid as part of supportive therapy.” Ray Peat - From PMS to Menopause
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yes. High doses of THC (cannabis extract as FECO, or full extract cannabis oil) in a rectal suppository, 250mg, 3 times a day, can I believe get rid of almost all forms of cancer and it doesn't make you high. You can use fenbendazole and ivermectin and lots of other things, but the high dose THC gets rid of cancer. I think it turns the cells into normies again so there is no massive toxic reaction or necrosis or apoptosis.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster Dr. Peat didn't seem to like cannabis much. What do you think he would say of this idea?
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@attempting he did not study endogenous cannabinoids. Sadly.
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Dr Peat was asked how THC and CBD are understood in a bioenergetic view?
“I've been looking for the real beneficial effects and it's always very ambiguous as far as I can see. It is sedative and in some circumstances anti-inflammatory, but not always. And for many years I haven't been able to resolve the ambiguity to have a definite opinion.” Ray Peat
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@Peatly Thanks Peatly & Hamster. THat is interesting stuff. I think a lot of us wish he had paid more attention to cannabis. FWIW, I think he would have found THCv very interesting.
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@attempting Dr Peat wasn’t shy of research. When he said, ‘I've been looking for the real beneficial effects’ I take that to mean he made considerable effort. The question of cannabis came up frequently in interviews. He was a curious man and I trust that if there was something worth finding he would have found it.
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As a seasoned pot user I can sympathise. It's a vast subject for the variance in composition of herbs, isolates and vehicles to consume them. Literature search for THC/CBD isolates is tricky and they vary. To weigh that with literature search for "natural" product and turn it in to some kind of practical advisory... difficult.
And then there's the 21st century corporatisation of it. More context. More tricky.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster this is fascinating. Where did you hear of this?
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@Jennifer, if your dad remains committed to conventional methods, perhaps he would be willing to consider this approach:
Immunotherapy in Cancer | Joseph Issels
"There are three general areas of prohost clinical management which are interwoven, and which overlap considerably:"
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"Correction of all known causal factors. This requires surgical elimination of foci of infection (notably head foci of dead teeth and nonfunctional diseased tonsils), immunization against pathogenic microbes and administration of appropriate flora, desensitization of local tissue pathologies caused by neural referral of disturbances from distant disease foci (Huneke), treatment of toxicoses and sensitivities caused by inherited latent phase cell wall deficient microbial forms (stemming from ancestral exposure to infections including syphilis and tuberculosis), which are passed on at birth and can persist for many generations (Enderlein, Spengler), replacement of pathogenic nutrition with a dietotherapy specifically designed to meet the special needs of cancer patients (Gerson, Hildenbrand), removal of environmental and psychological stressors as defined by Hans Selye, and the establishment of a more beneficial mind/body homeostasis according to the findings of psychoneuroimmunology."
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"Desensitization to causal factors. This is accomplished by systematic autogenous vaccination, application of microflora preparations and various specific vaccines."
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"Normalization of secondary damages to the host metabolism (impaired detoxification with subsequent suppression of natural defenses). Treatments include Gerson's dietotherapy, correction of the acid-base balance by treatment of the serum alkalosis and tissue acidosis paradox common in degenerative diseases, hyperthermia, fever therapy (Coley-Nauts), hyperbaric oxygen, ozone, ultraviolet blood irradiation, enzymes, glandulars, organ extracts, and neural therapy (Huneke)."
"Conventional anti-tumor treatments (surgery, radiation, chemotherapy) can be utilitarian and beneficial when modified to support the goals of whole-body comprehensive immunotherapy. In this context, they may be used concomitantly with vaccines, dietotherapy, and other host-protective medical measures. Dosages and duration of treatment with these drugs may be far less than is recommended in the randomized clinical trial protocols by which they achieved regulatory approval, but these modifications are justified by the outcomes of my patients, who achieve quite satisfactory tumor response without the typical side effects of hair loss, bone marrow suppression, and gut disturbances."
I now have a support page!
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@Amazoniac said in Cancer:
@Jennifer, if your dad remains committed to conventional methods, perhaps he would be willing to consider this approach:
Immunotherapy in Cancer | Joseph Issels
"There are three general areas of prohost clinical management which are interwoven, and which overlap considerably:"
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"Correction of all known causal factors. This requires surgical elimination of foci of infection (notably head foci of dead teeth and nonfunctional diseased tonsils), immunization against pathogenic microbes and administration of appropriate flora, desensitization of local tissue pathologies caused by neural referral of disturbances from distant disease foci (Huneke), treatment of toxicoses and sensitivities caused by inherited latent phase cell wall deficient microbial forms (stemming from ancestral exposure to infections including syphilis and tuberculosis), which are passed on at birth and can persist for many generations (Enderlein, Spengler), replacement of pathogenic nutrition with a dietotherapy specifically designed to meet the special needs of cancer patients (Gerson, Hildenbrand), removal of environmental and psychological stressors as defined by Hans Selye, and the establishment of a more beneficial mind/body homeostasis according to the findings of psychoneuroimmunology."
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"Desensitization to causal factors. This is accomplished by systematic autogenous vaccination, application of microflora preparations and various specific vaccines."
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"Normalization of secondary damages to the host metabolism (impaired detoxification with subsequent suppression of natural defenses). Treatments include Gerson's dietotherapy, correction of the acid-base balance by treatment of the serum alkalosis and tissue acidosis paradox common in degenerative diseases, hyperthermia, fever therapy (Coley-Nauts), hyperbaric oxygen, ozone, ultraviolet blood irradiation, enzymes, glandulars, organ extracts, and neural therapy (Huneke)."
"Conventional anti-tumor treatments (surgery, radiation, chemotherapy) can be utilitarian and beneficial when modified to support the goals of whole-body comprehensive immunotherapy. In this context, they may be used concomitantly with vaccines, dietotherapy, and other host-protective medical measures. Dosages and duration of treatment with these drugs may be far less than is recommended in the randomized clinical trial protocols by which they achieved regulatory approval, but these modifications are justified by the outcomes of my patients, who achieve quite satisfactory tumor response without the typical side effects of hair loss, bone marrow suppression, and gut disturbances."
Thank you.
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@Jennifer, another approach that might suit:
Cancer Treatments | Cancer Center for Healing
↳ Low Dose ChemotherapyFrom them:
"Small portions of poultry or fish are also an option for patients who choose to adopt a “Mediterranean” style diet rather than a strictly plant-based (vegan) approach."
I now have a support page!
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@Amazoniac said in Cancer:
@Jennifer, another approach that might suit:
Cancer Treatments | Cancer Center for Healing
↳ Low Dose ChemotherapyFrom them:
"Small portions of poultry or fish are also an option for patients who choose to adopt a “Mediterranean” style diet rather than a strictly plant-based (vegan) approach."
Thank you, but my dad isn’t getting chemotherapy.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
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Manuka Honey Inhibits Human Breast Cancer Progression in Preclinical Models (July 2024)
Figure 4. Antitumor activity of Manuka honey in human breast cancer xenografts in vivo. Ovariectomized nude mice (nu−/nu−, Charles Rivers) with estradiol supplements were implanted with MCF-7 tumor xenografts SQ and treated with Manuka honey or control administered by oral gavage after tumors achieved a size of 50–75 cm3. Oral gavage (0.1 mL volume) with 50% (w/v) Manuka honey or control was performed twice daily from days 1 to 14, then once daily thereafter to day 42. Treatment with Manuka honey administered orally elicited a significant suppression of MCF-7 xenograft progression as compared to controls (** p < 0.01) n = 5–7 mice per group. -
I recently read a book “cancer cured: victory over the war on cancer” which i believe Ray Peat helped advise the author on. My mum has cancer, and i think the book was really good.
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@Jennifer, I brought it up because a clinic that doesn't reject conventional methods altogether might be faced with less resistance by him. Another advantage is that it's located in national territory, not giving him the impression that he's seeking clandestine treatments abroad.
I now have a support page!
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@Amazoniac said in Cancer:
@Jennifer, I brought it up because a clinic that doesn't reject conventional methods altogether might be faced with less resistance by him. Another advantage is that it's located in national territory, not giving him the impression that he's seeking clandestine treatments abroad.
I see. He’s halfway through treatment and doing well, but I’ll keep the center in mind. Thank you.
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Did anyone here encountered cancer(in your self/in someone close to you). If so, what you did/doing to cure it? If you didn't, but you have some knowledge - what would you do to cure it? I know that different cancer need different approach - but hey, it's still cancer.
Cancer threads are like Alice in Wonderland. You get into a lot of rabbit holes. I stay away from it except to make this kind of commentary. And to say the essence in a cure is in its simplicity. When it gets very complicated and you don't know where to even begin, you are so trapped already in a labyrinth and you feel like a cockroach being experimented on.
Go back to the basics. Balance. And the body will heal itself. It is about the terrain. And you have to get the body back to where it can get back its own wisdom.
