strong histamine reaction after startingh levothyroxine...
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Hi Guys, has anyone experienced this? Any advice?
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@FitnessMikey Methylation needs to be dialed up. Focus on B12 intake through red meat like beef, dark poultry meat (like chicken thighs, legs), fresh seafood. Eggs have B12 but it is not absorbable, so dont factor them in. Dairy has some and can contribute. Aim for minimum 2.4 mcg for every meal since you can only absorb about that much every few hours to build up B12 levels. Diet should include a decent amount of the other B-vitamins like B2 (eggs, dairy, meat) and folate. If you took tons of B3 before for other reasons, you may need some TMG since B3 will demethylate a lot. Copper and vitamin C intake should be sufficient quantities. I recall you eating 6 eggs a day, which will amplify mast cell activity because the cholinergic receptors on mast cells will make them release histamine. If you still do that, go down to 2-3 a day for now while you work on methylation to help curb reactions.
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@redsun Hi Fam, good to hear from you. That's what i figured with ChatGPT today, that it might be due to low levels of some of the b vitamins while raising metabolism with t4.
Historically i always had low folate but good b12 and i never had problems like this with histamine after starting thyroxine, but this time is different, and i have a tornado of nasal congestion/runny nose and sneezing and watery eyes.
Ill start taking b complex and see if it helps and does not stimulate me like it used to, apparently b6 is very needed too to break histamines.
Its been very long since i started absorbing thyroxine, and it feels like I started doing so. It happened when i stopped taking /vaping nicotine and stopped taking cyproheptadine - they both mess with digestion and stomach acid and subsequent thyroxine absorption.
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@FitnessMikey Sounds good. Yes nicotine and cypro will lower stomach acidity and overall acid levels which is vital to absorb minerals and B12 especially. Dont know how long its been since you stopped cypro, but withdrawal can of course lead to strong histamine rebound. Depending on how long and how much you took it may take weeks for sensitivity to histamine to normalize. Keep in mind, some B vitamins can worsen histamine reactions because of increasing acetylcholine levels too much, this includes B1, B3, and B5.
B6 is unique in that it is used in the methylation cycle and DAO but it also is directly responsible for making histamine from histidine through histidine decarboxylase enzyme, which is the source of all histamine made inside the body. As for B6, especially P5P form, can also worsen if taken in excess. The trick with B complex is that when the doses of these specific ones are high it can make reactions worse.
So if B complex goes well than you are all good. If not, attempt the dietary way as I suggested as you will not get excess B1, B3, B5, B6 from diet. To add on to that for you, this should also include adding well cooked vegetables and certain fruits high in folate, copper, and vitamin C. Some synthetic folic acid from fortified flour products and rice is okay, just avoid excess amounts.
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@redsun tried taking B-complex vitamins yesterday, and that was a bad idea. Peeing at night and shallow sleep are something I am familiar with. What do you think about chicken liver pate? Some of it every day for extra b vitamins, is there a vitamin A concern?
My diet looks like this for the most part, vary to a degree but as below for the most part, comments would be appreciated.
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@FitnessMikey Diet wise the B vitamin intake looks pretty good. Yes some liver pate is fine of course. However, your zinc intake if it is regularly at 40 mg or more, can make it difficult to absorb copper which is also important for histamine deactivation. But the high copper intake may be enough to compensate. If you never checked, next time you get labs, check your serum copper and ceruloplasmin.
If the cheddar you eat is aged long and not mild cheddar, it will have a lot of dietary histamine, even just 50 g of it. Fresh dairy and cheese is ideal if you have histamine issues.
The only other thing potentially is if you ever megadosed B3 and never took TMG to counteract it, this keeps the body undermethylated and it sometimes it will not push it self back into more normal methylation if you took a lot.
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@redsun thanks broda, I'll keep posting about the progress.
The reason I started taking oysters daily was that I struggled with a completely clogged nose for many months until I got across that low zinc due to hypothyroidism/chronic stress. I was absolutely amazed when I could stop taking nasal sprays that I was dependent on for months, then i knew im clearly zinc deficient. Past blood test showed higher normal end for copper, lower end normal zinc.
I was always deficient in folate, which I was ignoring as it was always deemed as not necessary for metabolism improvement, now I know stress burns through it in my case.
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why are you taking levothyroxine?
It’s a very common, but very serious, mistake to call thyroxine “the thyroid hormone.” -Ray Peat
https://www.tpauk.com/main/article/an-interview-with-dr-raymond-peat-who-offers-his-thoughts-about-thyroid-disease/
https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml -
@Hando-Jin brother, contrary to what Ray Peat says, our thyroid makes more t4 than t3 and a lot of conversion happens inside the cells from T4. My experience tells me that t4 helps with symptoms much more than t3 and it suits how our thyroid produces thyroid hormones if that makes sense.
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@FitnessMikey I recommend you read and understand what Ray has written before you possibly make your situation even worse. Increased histamine is not a good sign, you are probably making yourself more hypothyroid.
*The thyroid gland, which normally produces some T3, will decrease its production in the presence of increased thyroxine. Therefore, thyroxine often acts as a “thyroid anti-hormone,” especially in women. When thyroxine was tested in healthy young male medical students, it seemed to function “just like the thyroid hormone,” but in people who are seriously hypothyroid, it can suppress their oxidative metabolism even more. It’s a very common, but very serious, mistake to call thyroxine “the thyroid hormone.”
Years ago it was reported that Armour thyroid, U.S.P., released T3 and T4, when digested, in a ratio of 1:3, and that people who used it had much higher ratios of T3 to T4 in their serum, than people who took only thyroxine. The argument was made that thyroxine was superior to thyroid U.S.P., without explaining the significance of the fact that healthy people who weren't taking any thyroid supplement had higher T3:T4 ratios than the people who took thyroxine, or that our own thyroid gland releases a high ratio of T3 to T4. The fact that the T3 is being used faster than T4, removing it from the blood more quickly than it enters from the thyroid gland itself, hasn't been discussed in the journals, possibly because it would support the view that a natural glandular balance was more appropriate to supplement than pure thyroxine.
The serum's high ratio of T4 to T3 is a pitifully poor argument to justify the use of thyroxine instead of a product that resembles the proportion of these substances secreted by a healthy thyroid gland, or maintained inside cells. About 30 years ago, when many people still thought of thyroxine as "the thryoid hormone," someone was making the argument that "the thyroid hormone" must work exclusively as an activator of genes, since most of the organ slices he tested didn't increase their oxygen consumption when it was added**. In fact, the addition of thyroxine to brain slices suppressed their respiration by 6% during the experiment**
The brain concentrates T3 from the serum, and may have a concentration 6 times higher than the serum (Goumaz, et al., 1987), and it can achieve a higher concentration of T3 than T4. It takes up and concentrates T3, while tending to expel T4. Reverse T3 (rT3) doesn't have much ability to enter the brain, but increased T4 can cause it to be produced in the brain. These observations suggest to me that the blood's T3:T4 ratio would be very "brain favorable" if it approached more closely to the ratio formed in the thyroid gland, and secreted into the blood. Although most synthetic combination thyroid products now use a ratio of four T4 to one T3, many people feel that their memory and thinking are clearer when they take a ratio of about three to one. More active metabolism probably keeps the blood ratio of T3 to T4 relatively high, with the liver consuming T4 at about the same rate that T3 is used.*
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@Hando-Jin this is valid and fantastic knowledge indeed. Saying that, I can't disregard my own experience, and it says that while t3 only in small doses, as Ray suggested, alleviates some of the symptoms to some extent. T4 is the thing that improves my symptoms much more; I still take around 4 mcg T3 twice a day.
