Cooking with Jennifer

[Alice-J]

Dear Jennifer,

I was so pleased to hear from you. Thank you for moving me from the other thread to here. I am not very clued up about posting and am sorry if I almost derailed sunsunsun's thread!

You have the wonderful gift of going to heart of the matter and I felt sure you would know.  Thank you for knowing.  I have read your messages many times but feel lost for words as to how to respond.  You know, when someone reaches out....., it almost hurts! Thank you.

There is more I should like to say and perhaps ask about your diet but, having sat here for quite some time typing and deleting, typing and deleting (that other problem of 'wanting to get it right'), I am going to walk away for a time and perhaps you will not mind if I come back a bit later. I just did not want you to think that I had not appreciated this connection.  I so deeply sense your hard-won freedom. I remember so well one of your previous avatars - the one with you sitting on the top of your mountain looking out into so much space (representing freedom, I assume).  My greatest motivation for recovery is to be able to go hiking again.  I too need that for my sanity. That was where I felt alive, me and well - decades ago now.  Hiking and ballet;  I was a dancer too. I was just spared a spinal fracture, but I developed severe osteoporosis in my early 20s. I had to come home about five years ago to live with my elderly Mum.  I need to listen and eat more. More enough to repair, not just more enough to get through each day.

I so hope that I am derailing the thread again. Next time, I will keep on the topic of cooking.

Thank you.

[Jennifer]

@Alice-J, no apologies necessary. You asked me a question that was on topic, but I think our conversation is an important one that needs expanding on so I thought it best to move it here. Sadly, the majority of people I know and have communicated with on health forums have experienced some level of anxiety, guilt and/or shame surrounding as vital a thing as food. I remember reading in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment about participants developing eating disorders during the experiment and it had me wondering what lasting effect the many wars and famines throughout history may have had on subsequent generations’ constitutions and attitudes toward food. And though I generally believe knowledge is power, I think we’re at a point in history where many are suffering greatly from information overload.

No worries about taking time to respond. I understand. I remember your concerns regarding your osteoporosis—I’m so glad you were spared a spinal fracture. I don’t wish that on anyone. Osteoporosis, ballet, hiking…we seem to have quite a bit in common. About that pic of me on the mountain…

While sitting up there on the edge with 360° of uninterrupted views, I closed my eyes and when I opened them, all I saw was sky and for a moment, it felt like I was flying. I thought that was the freest I would ever feel without sprouting wings, but I had yet to experience what true freedom on this plane of existence feels like. Back then, I had a restlessness that I would only later come to recognize as anxiety so just imagine my shock when years after my spine collapsed and I was unable to climb, I found myself sitting in an empty room not wanting to be anywhere but there in that moment, so overcome with joy just for being alive. For once, I felt grounded, yet freer than ever. I grew roots and wings. I believe you too will one day feel freer than you can possibly imagine in this moment. Just keep eating out of a love for yourself and your life, not out of fear, okay?

Hugs

[Ecstatic_Hamster]

I think one key to health is eating food you make at home. It is almost impossible to eat well if you eat out often. But I’m not like RP…he mentioned once he hadn’t eaten out since 1986 or something like that, lol.

At home I have found the best meals for me at this time are things like cooked fish (we have amazing fish here, very freshly caught), a bit of lamb, or beef, or sometimes chicken breast.

Then some carbs like white rice or potatoes, and a well cooked veggie.

I will often have a few glasses of milk too.

This is very traditional but it seems to work. I aim for 30g or 40g of protein, and 60g of carbs, or more. I’m not measuring portions though.

I also am experimenting with making my own paneer and using that instead of milk.

[Mossy]

@Jennifer I've not had to endure all that you have.  Though, some of which you speak has affected my life, in varying degrees.  So, I do get the drudgery, but even more so, the challenges of the mind, beyond the simple day to day, repetitive tasks.  I find the work easy as compared to those other challenges, and I see the work as helping with occupying my mind, directing me into usefulness and a needed distraction, outside of the chronic rumination of thoughts: those things of our life we don't understand, or can't understand, yet.  The best remedies and answers to life seem to come when we're not looking and searching for them, hence, the value of distraction.  I hope you find your distractions and solutions.

Interesting about not drinking milk.  What made you stop that?  My brother is trying to sell the carnivore diet to me, on which he lost just under 100lbs, and I'm trying to convince him with all that phosphorous he needs to add calcium to his diet (from my limited understanding).  I'm a Ray Peat evangelist, it seems.  I don't need to lose 100lbs, but just the fact that he did lose that much, and is keeping it off, makes it hard to completely discount it.  It does seem imbalanced to me, and from a Peat perspective it does lack calcium, not to mention carbs.  I'm not tempted by the carnivore diet, but it does have me wondering if I could quit milk after starting it 9 years ago, when first starting Peating.  Now the milk only diet I can do without . Haha...those poor kefir grains.  I still have mine in the freezer, after about 7 years.  I can guess they're no good.

I didn't find those fries at the local, big grocery stores.  I'll have to look at Sprouts.  I currently don't have a Whole Foods by me.  I'm still researching air fryers.  They're starting to introduce all glass containers with many of the makers, which seems like a good evolution of that appliance.

I think the orchard does have other fruit.  I need to find my email from them, and look them up again.

Nice — adding a beach to all those options will have all the terrains covered (except for the desert — which you probably don't want anyway).  Just add time and money, and you'll be set.

I've been going pretty big with making bread from scratch.  It's really a challenge, with the various types of breads and flours.  I remember Travis saying if there was a single food item he'd eliminate from his diet, it would be wheat.  Well, my dad isn't going to give that up — and I wouldn't mind keeping some if I can; though, I went years without it, and could do it again — so I thought I'd see how healthy I could make bread.  Now there is another expensive, specialty item — flour.

[Mossy]

@Jennifer Thanks for these potato recipes, Jennifer. As time and energy permit, I'll see if I can venture out of my set recipes.

[Ecstatic_Hamster]

@Mossy it's hard to argue with 100 pounds of weight loss, but I will try. I think losing that much weight is very dangerous unless done over several years.

Just for anyone -- I'm not talking about your family members of course.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12916-024-03665-9
During a median follow-up of 2.2 years (2,330,180 person-years), there were 10,197 deaths. A notable interaction emerged between weight change and age. For participants ≥ 65 years, compared with stable BMI, more than a 10% decrease in BMI was associated with higher risk of all-cause mortality (HR: 1.69, 95% CI: 1.54–1.86), non-communicable disease mortality (HR: 1.67, 95% CI: 1.52–1.84), CVD mortality (HR: 1.55, 95% CI: 1.34–1.80), and cancer mortality (HR: 1.59, 95% CI: 1.33–1.92). Similar patterns of results for 5% to 10% decrease in BMI were observed. More than a 10% increase in BMI was associated with increased risk of all-cause mortality (HR: 1.13, 95% CI: 1.04–1.24), non-communicable disease mortality (HR: 1.14, 95% CI: 1.04–1.25), and CVD mortality (HR: 1.27, 95% CI: 1.12–1.44). For participants < 65 years, only more than a 10% decrease in BMI was associated with higher risk of all-cause mortality (HR: 1.41, 95% CI: 1.12–1.77), non-communicable disease mortality (HR: 1.43, 95% CI: 1.13–1.81), and cancer mortality (HR: 1.79, 95% CI: 1.29–2.47).

[Mossy]

@Ecstatic_Hamster Appreciate the input, Hamster. Yes, I think you are correct, about losing weight that fast. I have no arguments there. But, in my brother's case, he would've lost his life anyway, had he not made any changes. He had to have emergency medical intervention to save his life. That was a turning point for him. He went hard in one direction, and just hung on to life, and now is going hard in what he sees as the best direction, based on the results. I sense after the shock of an emergency situation, and now the weight correction, he may come back to the middle.

Those stats you provide are interesting. Am I missing the obvious, or is it being claimed that as little as a 10.5% decrease in BMI, over a 2.2 year span, caused an increased risk of all-cause morality? I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just surprised by those numbers. Arguably, an over weight person could have other troubles by not reducing at least 10.5% BMI, it would seem.

[Ecstatic_Hamster]

@Mossy I don't know if it's true; other studies say the opposite but what does seem to be the case is that losing maybe 10% of body fat can be very advantageous. Anyway I am so happy about your brother saving his life.

[Jennifer]

@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Cooking with Jennifer:

I think one key to health is eating food you make at home. It is almost impossible to eat well if you eat out often. But I’m not like RP…he mentioned once he hadn’t eaten out since 1986 or something like that, lol.

At home I have found the best meals for me at this time are things like cooked fish (we have amazing fish here, very freshly caught), a bit of lamb, or beef, or sometimes chicken breast.

Then some carbs like white rice or potatoes, and a well cooked veggie.

I will often have a few glasses of milk too.

This is very traditional but it seems to work. I aim for 30g or 40g of protein, and 60g of carbs, or more. I’m not measuring portions though.

I also am experimenting with making my own paneer and using that instead of milk.

Agreed. I eat out on the rare occasion with family and friends and I know for a fact that there are less than ideal ingredients in even my most carefully selected choices—they usually pick a chain restaurant that lists allergy and ingredient info online—but I don’t lose sleep over it. Haha! Gotta love Ray. Too funny.

Many traditions were born out of experiments that worked and I think yours may be one of them. I’ve spent a lot of time researching traditional diets from around the world, and I don’t think it a coincidence that the majority of meals are made up of the same combination—an animal protein, starch and veggies.

If you have the time and wouldn’t mind, would you share how your experiment with making paneer is going?

[Jennifer]

Thank you, @Mossy. I agree that the best answers come when we’re not looking for them. They come to me without fail when I’m doing what brings me joy, another reason to prioritize some me time. I was thinking about this recently, how Ray talked about the health benefits of novelty, but after so much chaos and trauma, I find myself craving the structure of routine, the security in repetitive tasks, and I think my mum and grandmothers were the same. We stress clean(ed). Knowing that my dad’s and my needs are being met, but then I’m free to enjoy the unexpected that comes from my adventures in nature, has been a much needed, and I suppose novel, balance.

I haven’t had milk in a while solely because I’m a milk snob (lol). I only like it raw now, which requires a third stop for groceries, and that’s time I’d rather spend on the trail so I switched to the yogurts. About your brother—I’m so glad he did what he thought was best to save his life. Sadly, even when faced with their own mortality, some people won’t change. Diet is akin to religion and politics these days—a touchy subject—but thankfully, we have reliable diagnostics like temps, pulse rate and evaporation rate to help determine if a diet is healthy for us, personally. I require far more thyroid medication when following the carnivore diet (with or without dairy and honey).

From what I’ve read, kefir grains last up to a year if preserved properly so yeah, 7 years may be a stretch. That’s too bad about the fries. Fingers crossed Sprouts has them but if not, an air fryer will make it easier for you when you make them from scratch. You won’t have to babysit them, while getting burnt by splattering oil and the cleanup will be a breeze in comparison, especially if you use parchment paper liners. I looked for glass air fryers a few years back, but only found one and the reviews weren’t great. I’m glad to learn more companies are making them now. I think my mum bought the one I use at least 10 years ago and it still works perfectly so they can last quite a long time.

The desert landscape can be pretty, like Sedona, but you’re right, it’s not for me.

Much love and respect for Travis, but we had very similar diets and I didn’t thrive on it long-term. If well-tolerated, I think wheat can be a healthy addition to one’s diet, and though I’m not much of a grain eater, myself, few things smell as good to me as bread baking in the oven. I know what you mean about the flour—I used a variety, mostly sprouted, back when I was refeeding. I used to make bread by hand, but then my brother gave me his bread machine when he moved and I’ve been using it ever since. It’s just so easy. Dump all the ingredients into it, push a button and it does the rest.

[Jennifer]

@Mossy said in Cooking with Jennifer:

@Jennifer Thanks for these potato recipes, Jennifer. As time and energy permit, I'll see if I can venture out of my set recipes.

My pleasure.

[Ecstatic_Hamster]

@Jennifer it’s so easy. I’m using a nylon strainer. Heat the milk in a microwave until it is at a low boil, and add a few tablespoons of lemon or lime juice, or vinegar. Stir, and it breaks into curds. Then pour through the nylon strainer.

You can drink the whey if you want, but for me, I don’t want all that liquid so I throw it out (gasp).

[Jennifer]

Wonderful! Thank you for sharing, @Ecstatic_Hamster. That’s how I make curds, except I haven’t tried boiling the milk in the microwave. I’ll do that from now on. Seems easier. I don’t drink the whey, either. I give it to my plants. I find it increases their Brix.

[Ecstatic_Hamster]

@Jennifer yeah I've been fretting about all that weight that I'm wasting. You're saying that it's good for the plants. Okay well I'll try that. I just have to have some plants.

I also made a big improvement in the process. I got a big ol' strainer that fits over the mouth of the big bowl or whatever. Now I can let it cool a bit and then I can just put the mouth-size strainer on the pot or bowl, turn it over, and it just drains away. I only have the one pot and the strainer to clean.

[Jennifer]

@Ecstatic_Hamster, yep, I learned about it from a high Brix gardening group I joined when I was following a healing system called RBTI (Reams Biological Theory of Ionization). The creator, Carey Reams, was an agronomist. I’ve also used a combination of raw milk and blackstrap molasses with success. The only downside is wild animals love milk so much so that they were eating the milk soaked dirt at the base of my plants, leaving large holes. You may find this helpful:

https://cheesemaking.com/blogs/fun-along-the-whey/using-whey-in-your-garden

Nice! Smart idea. I’ve been using a nut milk bag fitted over the mouth of a 2 L Ball jar, but I’ll see if I can find a strainer to fit my bowl so I have one less dish to clean.

[Mossy]

@Ecstatic_Hamster I appreciate your kind words.

[Mossy]

@Jennifer I can relate with the need for structure and routine, for sure.  No matter who you are or what you've been through, I think the last 6 years, the COVID era, has brought a degree of chaos to everyone.  Novelty is indeed good for the spirit, but the right kind of novelty.  That which we choose, or welcome in, from a place of comfort and trust, where the unknown aspects are more to do with adventure than fright.  I prefer stress yard work to stress cleaning.  I think I prefer most anything to cleaning.   And even now days, I'd say stress cooking.  It's not that I love cooking, but it does two things: it fulfills an immediate need, and it occupies and challenges me differently, beyond the physicality of outdoor work.

Haha...milk snob.  That is funny.  I do prefer raw milk as well, but haven't had it in years.  I don't mind yogurt, especially Greek  I primarily use it in bread making these days.

Thank you for the kind words.  I'm glad my brother came to his senses as well.  I trust he'll move on or modify his carnivore diet once he gets bored or feels like something is lacking.  But it really has done wonders so far.  I wish I could at least seriously attempt thyroid.  I know you think it's key to your health, as well as your dad's.  Maybe I'll try it one day, I'm just far too sensitive to supplements, and this supplement in particular has me hesitant.  I've dealt with tachycardia over the last 10 years, and I read that that is not uncommon with a wrong thyroid dose.

I have become quite good with the homemade fries.  They are easier for me now.  So, maybe all I need is a good air fryer.

I'm not a huge fan of the desert myself, though I do appreciate the uniqueness of it.  I think the country side, within reasonable reach of a good city or town, would be ideal.  But I say this as someone who has never lived where there are no street lights.  So, maybe I wouldn't like it.  Though, I have lived with minimal street lights, where the stars could still be seen.

I have no problem with a bread machine, which is what I use primarily.  I'm trying out a heritage wheat — pre-1950's milling technique and non-hybrid — which is supposed to be better on the gut, as well as providing better nutrients ( I think I run the risk of becoming a flour snob . ) But, it doesn't rise as well as modern flour, and the bread machine can beat it up too much.  So, I'm finally learning to modify the default settings on the bread machine, in an attempt to get the best out of this wheat.  Ultimately, I won't sweat it too much.

[Jennifer]

@Mossy, yes, exactly! The right kind of novelty. Like you, I don’t love cooking or cleaning. I like eating and cleanliness, and proactivity—taking action, especially during times of crisis, is good for my morale, just as long as I remind myself that some things can’t or aren’t meant to be fixed, the blessing and curse of the eternal optimist.

Strained yogurt is great! I’ve used it in bread, too. Also as a gum-free substitute for cream cheese when making cheesecake and cream cheese and honey stuffed cinnamon bread finger sandwiches. I wasn’t a fan of yogurt until I tried skyr while following carnivore, discovered how satiating yogurt could be, and started straining it. Speaking of the carnivore diet, the fact that your brother was willing to try it tells me he’s open to change so I think you’re right to trust that he’ll modify his diet if he feels something is lacking. Plus, he now knows what it’s like to feel good after knocking at death’s door so I imagine that’s something he’ll try to hold on to.

Regarding thyroid, it was crucial both times my thyroid crashed, but not as crucial as reducing stress. I struggled to get my temp and pulse rate up, and my TSH down, prior to dedicating time regularly to decompress. Knowing your sensitivity to supplements and the tachycardia, I can understand your reservation. It’s likely that the tachy is caused by an excess of adrenaline that is compensating for low thyroid and Ray said that “there is usually an intensification of the effect of adrenaline” that can last up to two weeks when starting thyroid. Increasing magnesium intake—I used mag bicarb water but with your sensitivity to supplements, kale broth or mag oil applied transdermally may be better tolerated—and reducing all forms of stress as much as possible can help with that. Also, trialing different forms of thyroid. My mum and I experienced heart palpitations from synthetic thyroid, but not standardized NDT.

As someone who grew up with street lights, but has lived without them now for 21 years, I much prefer having them. Having nothing but moonlight for illumination sounds romantic until it’s evening and you’re forced to shovel a 300’ driveway during a snowstorm so you can get to work in the morning. lol With that said, I’ve only ever lived on the outskirts of town, near rural farming communities—cornfields were my playground…and that’s not creepy at all —even while growing up in the largest city in the state so street lights have never outshined the stars here. The majority of this area of the US has more trees (and ticks) than people so I imagine I’d have to be in Boston for that to happen.

Haha! Embrace the snobbery. Life is too short to settle if one has a choice not to. The only bread I ever really cared for is a French bread that comes from a bakery in the city. The bread is baked on the same pans as the pastries so it has a hint of cinnamon that, oddly enough, makes it outstanding even with the savory grinders the bakery uses the bread for. I’m curious about the heritage wheat you’re using and if it’s one I’ve tried. Do you mind sharing the variety? Of all the varieties I’ve tried, I like spelt as an all-purpose flour. I like its sweet and nutty flavor. If I’m not mistaken, akgrrrl and Rinse & rePeat from the old RPF like einkorn.

[Mossy]

@Jennifer Indeed.  I think that is a great perspective, being proactive.  There is so much value to simply doing something, when the mind is in a quandary.

I used to eat yogurt quite a bit, and cottage cheese, but it's been a while for both.  Greek yogurt does really help make a soft, but semi-structured white bread.  Maybe it could be used in other breads, but I'm still learning.  Wow, that is quite a cheese inspired sandwich.  My brain is trying to section and place all the adjectives and descriptors to envision it....haha.  Yes, I can see my brother adding back in more balance, beyond the carnivore.

No doubt, stress is the enemy.  How much we'd remedy if we dealt with that better.  But I think that's called life, and growing.  Really, there's no such thing as no stress.  Though, I do think we can make life harder than it is, and incur more stress than is necessary.  Part of the growing, at least for me, is avoiding the unnecessary, self-imposed, burdens.  Your experience with thyroid, and Peats quote you mention, is enough to forever keep me away from thyroid...haha.  The one positive I'll hold to, is your good experience with standardized NDT.  If I do try it, I'll keep that in mind, to use that first.

Funny, and I get it.  I had a friend growing up who lived without street lights, and I liked the country feel, and he liked coming to town to my house.  And, for sure, the burden of rural life, is fighting nature to make life more comfortable.  When I come to my senses, I realize the country life is only romantic for the few who can afford only to live the good parts and pay others to live the bad for them.  In youth, the romance of it may be more prominent, as your energy carries you along, e.g., Jennifer of the Corn ; ), but I can see how that could give way to the desire for an easier existence.  Ticks would be a challenge.  I could guess ticks are most anywhere, but likely more where there are more tress.  Coincidentally, just recently, I read that an opossum eats up to 5,000 ticks a year.  In general, I know people tend to kill opossums, but maybe they wouldn't if they realized their worth.  In the smallish town I live in, they are prevalent, to the point of being a nuisance at times.

I have a good childhood friend who was born in Massachusetts, I think Boston, which is my only very small connection to that region, apart of course from it being the foundation of our nation.  (That little fact.)

Ok, I'm seeing a common thread here...cinnamon.  All roads lead to cinnamon.  I can't blame you, who doesn't like cinnamon?  I make a cinnamon raisin bread for my dad and I, and use quite a bit.  At least it seems a lot to me, 7 grams.  I am truly breading out these days, which is totally anti-Peat from my understanding, but as I cook for my dad, it's too easy to partake.  I'm currently making hotdog and hamburger buns, raisin bread, white bread, rye bread, flour tortillas, corn tortillas, and next up, English muffins.  Due to the heavy load, I've already had to cut back on my flour snobbery, due to cost and the inconsistency of the heritage flour.  I can't afford, time, energy, and money wise, to have a recipe fail, so until I can really fine tune how to get the best results with the heritage, I'll use King Arthur, organic for now.  Though, my goal is to have the heritage be the main flour.  I'm convinced the quality of flour in our "first-world" country is, ironically, quite poor.  The heritage I'm using is Sunrise bread flour and all-purpose flour, and have just purchased Doudlah Farms rye.   I believe Einkorn is even costlier than heritage flour, being considered an ancient grain, much older than just the 1930s.  From memory, I've read that Einkorn is a 14 chromosome flour, where the lower number signifies a more pure strain, so to speak, untainted, where today's modern flours are hybrid, cross-breed (if that's the right word), having over 40 chromosomes.  I used to buy spelt bread, I just wasn't a huge fan of the texture.  But I have considered trying it again, now that I'm in control of the bread making.  I'm guessing there's a way to make it better.

[Jennifer]

@Mossy, lol. I got the finger sandwich recipe from a friend who hosted playgroups for her daughters. When I first saw her making them, it was for a tea party theme, and I thought the recipe seemed odd, but they tasted delicious and were a hit with both the kids and parents. You just take sliced cinnamon or raisin bread, cut off the crust, spread some honey, then cream cheese and then cut them into small squares. But yep, yogurt can be used in other breads like quick breads, and I’ve even used it in muffins, cakes and pancakes with success.

Sorry, my comment wasn’t meant to scare you off thyroid supplementation, but to reassure you that if you’ve been running on stress hormones, though not fun, palpitations are normal when first supplementing and can be mitigated. If the tachycardia is due to an under-active thyroid, I’d hate for you to not get the help you need. Regarding stress, reducing it as much as possible when in a weakened state can be helpful, IME, but once recovered, I actually think some stress is healthy if it’s balanced with good nutrition and rest. For example, climbing stresses my body, but also strengthens it because I get proper nutrition and rest for regeneration.

Haha! I’ve yet to come to my senses and I hope I never do. I’m convinced I could live in an Airstream in some beach town so I can spend my days surfing and hiking. I’ve never surfed a day in my life, but in my delulu mind I’m a natural. I’ve seen Blue Crush way too many times. But 5,000 ticks yearly? Sadly, another misunderstood animal, yes. I think it’s hilarious how the mothers carry their young. I’ve read that guinea fowl can eat upwards of 4,000 ticks per day. The farm I used to get my milk from had guineas and while picking up my milk order one day, I saw a male turkey strutting through the parking lot with his feathers on display like a rockstar and a dozen or so guinea chicks following behind him like his groupies. lol

Cinnamon is great, one of my favorite spices, but wow! I’m impressed you even make English muffins. Thank you for sharing your flour sources. I’ve used the same varieties, only sprouted. I used to get my flour from To Your Health Sprouted Flour Co., but they went bankrupt so I switched to Granite Mill Farms (https://granitemillfarms.com/products/). I haven’t tried commercial spelt bread, only my own, so I don’t know how it compares, but I’ve had commercial, all natural breads like millet and I find them dense and dry. I had to soften them by wrapping them in a moist paper towel and heating them up in the microwave before eating. Mine is much softer like bread from modern wheat, just that it has a sweeter and nuttier flavor. And you’re right about einkorn. I read the same thing.