Calcium for blood pressure
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@Peatly Thanks for citing that doctor's name. Yeah, I think the primary mechanism behind calcium's protective effect is it's suppression of PTH, which is also an independent risk factor for coronary artery disease. And since it can take years for PTH to finally rob your bones to the point of osteopenia or osteoporosis, it can sneak up on you, making you think you're "getting by" on low calcium intake.
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@Kinesyne said in Calcium for blood pressure:
@Mulloch94 https://www.amjmed.com/article/0002-9343(87)90268-3/abstract
Interesting paradox, I knew they prescribed calcium blockers a lot in preexisting heart diseases, my own mother had them prescribed for a little while. There's a pilot survey in those references that looks interesting. The group with essential hypertension had significantly less calcium intake despite both groups having similar potassium intake. Indicating calcium is possibly more potent than potassium at controlling BP. Which is interesting considering it's long been believed potassium is the most important mineral to control BP. I would like to see a controlled trial done comparing two groups, both with adequate potassium but one group also getting extra calcium.
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@Mulloch94 He also referenced Takuo Fujita on calcium.
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@jwayne I don't remember that person, thanks for the tip. I will look them up as well. I'm thinking about posting anything I find calcium related to this thread.
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Calcium seems to ameliorate high BP not only through antagonistic effects to PTH but also preventing the release of aldosterone. Ray considered aldosterone a central factor in the development of heart disease.
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/11/5/1112
"The link between calcium intake and blood pressure involves a connection between calciotropic hormones and blood pressure regulators. As was hypothesized many years ago, parathyroid activity increases the cytosolic concentration of calcium and increases vascular reactivity and blood pressure [113]. The effect of calcium intake on blood pressure is not shown in parathyroidectomized animal studies. Low calcium intake also increases the synthesis of calcitriol in a direct manner or is mediated by PTH. Calcitriol increases intracellular calcium in vascular smooth muscle cells. Low calcium intake stimulates renin release, and consequently, angiotensin II synthesis. PTH stimulates renin release, angiotensin II and aldosterone synthesis (Figure 3). We are willing with this review to promote discussions and contributions to achieve a better understanding of these mechanisms, and if required, the design of future studies."
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“If something is driving your aldosterone abnormally high, such as a deficiency of progesterone, then the combination of high aldosterone and high salt intake will increase your blood pressure. But when your thyroid and vitamin D and calcium intake are good, that will hold down your aldosterone and progesterone antagonizes the effects of aldosterone. So that combination of vitamin D, calcium, thyroid and progesterone are the basic anti-aldosterone system and the blood pressure regulating system apart from sodium.” Ray Peat
Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs. respiratory energy
SOME CONTEXTS
In biology and biochemistry, calcium is the substance most often studied, so it is significant that researchers still speak of a calcium paradox.There are several such paradoxes: As bones lose calcium, the soft tissues calcify; when less calcium is eaten, blood calcium may increase, along with calcium in many organs and tissues; if an organ such as the heart is deprived of calcium for a short time, its cells lose their ability to respond normally to calcium, and instead they take up a large, toxic amount of calcium.
Magnesium deficiency and calcium deficiency have some similar symptoms (such as cramping), but magnesium is antagonistic to calcium in many systems. It is the basic protective calcium blocker.
Inflammation leads to excessive uptake of calcium by cells, and is a factor in obesity, depression, and the degenerative diseases.Protein deficiency is an important cause of deranged calcium metabolism. Vitamins K, E, and A are important in regulating calcium metabolism, and preventing osteoporosis. Aspirin (with antiestrogenic and vitamin E-like actions) is protective against bone resorption and hypercalcemia.
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P Peatly referenced this topic on
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Was scrolling through Google scholar earlier and found this. A systemic review from June of last year about calcium rich mineral water. Thought it would be relevant to the discussions here. Unsurprisingly, it seems calcium rich mineral water might be a good alternative for those who can't handle oxalates in leafy greens, and for those who may have problems digesting dairy.
"...Calcium in mineral water is dissolved, which may facilitate absorption in the gastrointestinal tract. The presence of bicarbonate in many mineral waters might also aid calcium absorption. Additionally, while some components like oxalates and phytates, which are naturally occurring in some plant foods, can inhibit calcium absorption, these are not present in mineral water..."
"... the calcium in mineral water is highly bioavailable. When you consume mineral water, the calcium it contains is in a dissolved ionic form, readily absorbed in the intestine..."
"...Calcium is crucial in muscle contraction and relaxation, including the muscles lining the blood vessels. Increased dietary calcium can lead to the dilation of these vessels, potentially resulting in lowered blood pressure. Furthermore, calcium is also involved in transmitting nerve signals, which can influence heart rate and blood pressure..."
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@Mulloch94 said in Calcium for blood pressure:
Conversely, a lower calcium diet can be managed provided you lower your phosphorus consumption. This would mean relying on more vegetables and fruits, and less grains, legumes, or meats.
Apparently the type of phosphorus we consume dictates our calcium needs also, and that there's a difference in the phosphorus included in "packaged goods" and what comes natural in meats, with meat phosphorus being easier to balance.
I believe either Ray Peat or the forum was my initial source for that info but Chris Masterjohn echoes it in the following podcast @ around 43:25
https://wellnessmama.com/podcast/256/
Here is the relevant passage from the transcript pdf:
To make things worse, when they’ve done studies on how different sources of phosphorus impact your vitamin D and calcium requirements, those studies seem to indicate that the phosphorus additives in packaged foods are dramatically worse than other sources of phosphorus. For example, one of the markers you would use to look in someone’s blood at either not getting enough vitamin D or calcium, or getting too much phosphorus is a rise in parathyroid hormone. Parathyroid hormone goes up, in either of those situations, not enough D in calcium or too much phosphorus. And if you feed someone meat, which is very rich in phosphorus, it doesn’t do anything to their parathyroid hormone. If you feed someone cheese, which is high in both phosphorus and calcium, it decreases their parathyroid hormone, which is a good thing.
And if you feed someone packaged foods that have phosphorus additives, it increases their parathyroid hormone, which is a bad thing. So, you have processed foods = bad, meat = neutral, dairy products = good, in terms of affecting the balance of vitamin D, calcium, and phosphorus. So, the reasons for that, probably has something to do with the forms of phosphorus that are added to the food. They might be much more absorbable than the phosphorus from natural food. But it’s also because meat, for example, has amino acids that help you absorb calcium better from your diet. And so, meat isn’t just providing phosphorus, it’s also facilitating better calcium status when it’s consumed in the context of a mixed diet. And then, dairy products are actually providing that calcium. So, even though the phosphorus can antagonize the calcium, they’re providing enough calcium to not only make up for the phosphorus, but to put you in an even better situation than you would be without those dairy products. So, when we look at the calcium requirements, there’s a gray area because we don’t have a lot of data taking people who eat plenty of animal protein, plenty of dairy products, get really good vitamin D status, and don’t have any packaged foods in the diet, we don’t have a lot of data in those people. And it’s probably the case that calcium needs are lower in those people. It’s just, I don’t know how much lower they are. So my opinion is, you know, shoot for the 1,000-milligram mark, you can probably get away with consuming maybe 600 or 700 milligrams of calcium if you optimize everything else.
I'd call this good news, both for achieving a good calcium/phosphorus balance and lowering or at least not increasing PTH.
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@BioEclectic Interesting, I do think most meat purchased from big-chain supermarkets has added phosphate in it though, this occurs during the processing of the meats, and they're not required by law to put it on the ingredient list.
It does seem like the ratio of calcium to phosphate is more important than total consumption of either one. So a lower calcium diet would work provided grains, legumes, meat, and eggs were kept to a minimum.
Also it appears the role vitamin D plays in this equation is crucial in that it allows you to discriminately uptake calcium. To the contrary a deficiency in vitamin D will preferentially uptake phosphorus even in a high-calcium diet.
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@Mulloch94
Will note that about big chain packaged meats with added phosphates. I often try to stay away from those but now i'll make it a point. I tend to purchase from more regional markets that have in house butchers, i don't believe they include additives but now i wonder. Genuine butcher shops seem safest.And yes, Chris Masterjohn's information was more nuanced than I implied in my previous post, there's a bigger picture. I see he has related information in other videos and podcasts, will have to get to those soon. Some citation/sources would be nice also.
Also on my to do list; Calcium bicarbonate. Have done the Magnesium version enough times so let's see if Calcium would have anything to offer. I see even more info at the other forum.
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@BioEclectic Chris is pretty cool, I can't say I agree with everything he says, but I can't really say that about anyone so it's all good. The guy does relentless research, so I know he's never going into something half-cocked.
You could save your eggshells and just use a coffee grinder on them, rather then spending money on calcium carbonate. It's essentially the same thing.
Yeah that shit sucks about supermarket meats. Before I relocated I was getting most of my meats from a local source, but right now I'm not in contact with any good local guys to source product so I'm just keeping my meat consumption to a minimum.
I usually eat meat and veggies with dinner, but for breakfast and lunch it's been oatbran with casein protein (also a good source of calcium) and coffee with milk. I cook my oatbran in apple juice too.
