Supplementing T3 not safe afterall?
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Well Ray did say in the email exchanges one time that pure T3 was giving him arrhythmic-like conditions. And that when he added T4 to it, that situation stopped. So T4 does seem to play an element in thyroid maintenance.
But has anyone read the full report? Because I'm highly skeptical. I'm mostly skeptical due to how we clinically treat the nature of hypothyroidism itself. They didn't mention anything in the abstract about these people's TSH levels.
Remember, you are no longer considered "hypothyroid" once they get your TSH below 5.0 mIU/L. If they're telling you to maintain your T3 dose when your TSH is 4.5 mIU/L you are still damaging yourself. In fact pulse wave velocity the "gold standard" of measuring arterial stiffness does not begin to improve until it's under 2.5 mIU/L.
We need to know what these subject's TSH levels are.
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@Kvirion Yes I totally agree Kvirion, I'm going very slowly and I am monitoring the results. You can't be too careful.
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@Master said in Supplementing T3 not safe afterall?:
The major glaring issue is that they don't distinguish the difference in outcomes in patients that took just T3 and the patients that took T3 & T4. This is pretty significant
Yes it certainly is Master, so I can't imagine that they did not do that. Wish I could read the entire article.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster Me Neither Ecstatic Hamster, I have no intention of going off my T4 medication.
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@Master said in Supplementing T3 not safe afterall?:
As far as I'm aware, Peat, Haidut, and Danny all advocate cycling to some extent.
Do you know exactly how they did the cycling?
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@Peatly said in Supplementing T3 not safe afterall?:
Thyroid: Misconceptions newsletter
Thanks Peatly.
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This seems to be the consensus protocol from the forums:
- Start with T3 monotherapy, at a few micrograms, one to three times daily
- Closely monitor symptoms and vitals
- Slowly increase T3 dosage and frequency over weeks; daily adjustments should be avoided
- If/when sleep and cardiac issues show up, which they likely will, add in T4 in the evening
- Every couple weeks adjust dosage and frequency of T3/T4 until full symptom improvement
Best dosage and frequency (based, again, on my reading of forums and anecdata) is ~5mcgs T3 every 2-3 hours, with 20-60 mcgs T4 in the evening, in one or several dosages, with T3.
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Denis Wilson's protocol for T3 can call for 180mcg per day of T3 only. I have tried it.
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@cornwallis 5mcg every 2-3 hours is a huge, unphysiological dose for most hypothyroid people. I think nobody should start with more than 1mcg split into 2-3 doeses throughout the day as a first try.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Supplementing T3 not safe afterall?:
Denis Wilson's protocol for T3 can call for 180mcg per day of T3 only. I have tried it.
Wilson’s protocol calls for cycling and short treatment correct? Curious what your results were. My mom tried Wilson’s protocol when I was young but couldn’t afford to continue.
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@moonpiemantooth yes it is short term but not necessarily. Some people can’t get off of thyroid, and after a bout with T3, they still need thyroid.
That was my case.
I’m much better off with T4 and T3.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster What does your thyroid protocol look like?
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@Wkia No I've been trying to find the quote, but Ray definitely said it's good to take a break from time to time.
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Nothing is safe anymore.
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“Broda Barnes tells some of the stories, for example, in the 1930s, he observed that thyroid deficiency, among other things, caused an extremely high rate of heart attacks and circulatory disease, infectious diseases, circulatory diseases and cancer were the main killers in a hypothyroid population. But when he started popularizing that, there was a reaction and JAMA published a story about a doctor who had given a patient who had just suffered a massive heart attack a supplement of, I think, two grains of armor thyroid starting right off on a full standard dose rather than working into it over a period of weeks and the patient died. And so that created the propaganda that natural thyroid could kill you with a heart attack.” Ray Peat
“A low thyroid person is breaking down the ATP because there's not enough magnesium to stabilize it, and if you don't have a good reserve of magnesium somewhere in your body, increasing the thyroid runs into a wall where there's not enough magnesium, and so it does nothing but increase stress. So making sure you're getting enough magnesium is essential when you're adjusting the thyroid.” Ray Peat
More discussion here
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@cornwallis 1.5 Cynoplus divided in three doses taken after meals.
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@Master Too bad but thanks anyway Master.
