How can I prepare low pH water (2.8) that doesn't cause acid base imbalance

the MOUSE

@yerrag said in How can I prepare low pH water (2.8) that doesn't cause acid base imbalance:

A healthy body, is capable of taking in a permissible level of acid and while during the day a temporary state of acid-base imbalance may result, the body has enough mechanisms and stores of buffer ( such as CO2 from mitochondrial metabolism) to correct it, especially during sleeping hours.

can taking citrate/bicarb assists this?

yerrag

@the-MOUSE

Taking baking soda, bicarbonate such as mag bicarb, or drinking carbonated drinks (containing CO²) assists the body in correcting an acidic imbalance.

ursidae

@Amazoniac

thank you so much

I'm not sure if the guys at the lab will provide me with tartaric acid. They're generally against using organic acids for this experiment.

I'm trying to find some facts about its pharmacokinetics, where do you source your information ?

If it's indeed inert and wouldn't affect the micro biome too drastically then I'll use it

I want to try and maximise the difference between the two waters by mimicking the natural variation among tap/spring/mineral
waters

Silicilic acid sounds like a good idea to me actually
There's brands with 60 mg/L of it here

then there's some waters that are naturally at pH 4.5 due to some amount of phosphoric acid

If I use a mix of silicilic and phosphoric with some of their conjugate salts (and possibly tartaric) to bring the pH down and then perhaps a little bit of HCl then the mice wouldn't be ingesting too many chloride ions. I could even use hypochlorous acid instead of HCl because it's a weak acid

Amazoniac

@ursidae said in How can I prepare low pH water (2.8) that doesn't cause acid base imbalance:

@Amazoniac

thank you so much

I'm not sure if the guys at the lab will provide me with tartaric acid. They're generally against using organic acids for this experiment.

I'm trying to find some facts about its pharmacokinetics, where do you source your information ?

If it's indeed inert and wouldn't affect the micro biome too drastically then I'll use it

I want to try and maximise the difference between the two waters by mimicking the natural variation among tap/spring/mineral
waters

Silicilic acid sounds like a good idea to me actually
There's brands with 60 mg/L of it here

then there's some waters that are naturally at pH 4.5 due to some amount of phosphoric acid

If I use a mix of silicilic and phosphoric with some of their conjugate salts (and possibly tartaric) to bring the pH down and then perhaps a little bit of HCl then the mice wouldn't be ingesting too many chloride ions. I could even use hypochlorous acid instead of HCl because it's a weak acid

Tartaric acid is not completely inert, but more than the common organic acids. You'd have to search for its fate in mice because of differences in processing between animals. Part of the dose can be metabolized by gut microbes, but the amounts involved shouldn't lead to gross disturbances. I don't source the information from a specific site. The linked publication in Sate's thread can be a starting point.

The silicic acid content of the mentioned water is too low (0.06 g SA/1000 g water). Its half-dissociation constants are also low (↓Ka; ↑pKa), so protons won't be released in the body. For comparison with the above acids:

Silicon as Versatile Player in Plant and Human Biology: Overlooked and Poorly Understood

Orthosilicic acid (H4SiO4):

pKa1 ≈ 9.8
pKa2 ≈ 13.2

"[..]below pH 9 it commonly occurs as uncharged monomeric form [(H4SiO4)o] which is the most readily absorbable form of Si in humans and plants (Weast and Astle, 1983; Knight and Kinrade, 2001; Jugdaohsingh et al., 2002; Ma et al., 2008)."

If you were to give substantial doses of something like sodium silicate, it would consume protons and alkalinize because of such property.

Final report on the safety assessment of potassium silicate, sodium metasilicate, and sodium silicate

ursidae

@Amazoniac
thank you
I was told I can only use the stuff in the cupboard unfortunately and nothing like tartaric acid can be ordered

I've been thinking of injecting them with bicarbonate twice a week or more. I'll bypass the gut and there will be no more acid conundrums. Gonna be doing a literature search on the methods and moles of how this has been done.

3 groups for now. Sadly I only got 10 animals. 4 animals tap water, 2 of them injected with bicarbonate
3 animals with tap water diluted with deionised to reduce the buffering capacity/ionic strength, 1 of them injected with bicarbonate
3 animals with tap water enriched with MgSO4, KH2PO4 and NaHCO3, 1 injected with bicarbonate

ursidae

@ursidae

nevermind, apparently that's not okay to do either. Can't do anything except add lab salts to the water

Amazoniac

@ursidae said in How can I prepare low pH water (2.8) that doesn't cause acid base imbalance:

@ursidae

nevermind, apparently that's not okay to do either. Can't do anything except add lab salts to the water

Pancreatic NaHCO3 would be reacting with HCl, so it can be supplied after the victims absorb the acidified water to make up for it. One part of NaHCO3 for every part of added HCl.

NaHCO3 + HCl → H2CO3 + NaCl

And you can decrease the corresponding amount of NaCl in the diet.

Why All Healthy Laboratory Animals Should Be Rehomed, No Matter How Small

the MOUSE

@yerrag thanks, do u think citrate can be used instead of bicarb? or is bicarb better

yerrag

@the-MOUSE

Is there a particular reason you ask about using citrate?

Citric acid, unless from citrus fruit, is mostly made industrially from black molds. Potassium and sodium citrate powders are made this same citric acid.

So one can't help but be wary of black mold contamination as production methods always allow for a specified and allowed level of contamination, without which production cost would become impractical and prohibitive.

3 years ago, I happened to be taking a mixture to increase the zeta-value of my blood to improve its flow characteristics. It so happened that I took also an antibiotic that is known to produce cwd (cell wall deficient) bacteria. I got very sick with which I believe to be a fungal infection. I was so sick that In cramped all over, had cold sweat at night, my platelets were down so much, and I was running a high fever. That was at the height of COVID hoaxing, and my chance of surviving would be nil had I allowed myself to be admitted to a hospital. I self-treated with breathing carbogen, and slowly got myself back to health.

If I weren't keeping careful records, I wouldn't have made the connection to the likely cause of my sickness.

Thanks to @haidut for sharing the article on the source of citric acid being black molds. Otherwise, we would just be thinking of citric acid as a harmless innocuous substance.
My part is to be constantly tuned to such reports which would be on the RPF then and not on the mainstream channels.

yerrag

@yerrag

Add: I would now put I gram of baking soda and mix with 16grams of lemon juice in a liter of 1 liter of water to make my own safe version of a Zeta-Aid solution to improve the flow peoperties of my blood.

the MOUSE

@yerrag i see tyvm. no idea citrate had that risk, just thought as its pre cheap n alternative to bicarb n can hyrdrate siumilar to fruits