@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Is higher metabolism good for longetivity?:

Conclusions: The TSH population shifts to higher concentrations with age appear to be a continuum that extends even to people with exceptional longevity.The inverse correlation between TSH and FT4 in our populations suggests that changes in negative feedback may contribute to exceptional longevity.

I'm not buying this. I consider the basis the medical system uses to determine the state of the thyroid all flawed, bases on Peat's views.

Here, they make the conclusion that the higher the TSH, the longer lived a person is, which you are well aware to not be in keeping with Peat's views on it.

@Jakeandpace said in What defines the 'bile dump' the Charlie forum always talks about?:

m glad you have such great reactions to liver but I think it’s dangerous when people homogenise a diet or a food to say it’s good for everyone in any circumstance without discussing possible downsides which are present with foods like liver. I agree in a lot of cases it can be great but as evidence of this whole movement of Low A people it clearly isn’t all great all the time.

Nothing is ever clear cut and I don't have to give you fair warning that what applies to me does not necessarily apply to you. I would call it common sense even. As what happens differs between people in reacting to any substance is very much a matter of context.

In like manner, you need not tell me that what is your experience should be mine either.

I can speculate, and you can speculate as well, and we can each give compelling arguments to buttress each of our case. For my experience and your experience do not line up with each other.

But I'll speculate. What if the people who cannot metabolize vitamin A well are really hypothyroid, in various degrees, without knowing they are, and the vitamin A they have accumulated is having a toxic effect on them because they are hypothyroid?

Consider that the US medical system uses a system of evaluating hypothyroidism that unduly makes far too many false negatives on hypothyroidism based on a thyroid panel. On top of that, an overwhelming majority of Peaters don't even know how to use alternate methods of testing for hypothyroidism because they are just too lackadaisical about using the QTc value in an ECG or an Achilles tendon reflex test to verify the diagnosis of doctors using the thyroid panel of TSH, T3, and T4. Are you yourself among these people?

I know for a fact that most people would rather just cross their fingers and get tested for hypothyroidism and hope they don't get a false negative. They could buy a personal ECG and test their ECG but they will not, or they can go out of their way to get a free Achilles tendon reflex done, but no, they would not do that either.They are just very passive about getting the right diagnosis on the state of their thyroid.

And most actually don't even get their thyroid tested because it costs a lot, and when their primary care physician does not approve a test, they cross their fingers and hope they aren't hypothyroid. Not that it helps when the thyroid panel usually gives a false positive on hypothyroid.

Until they do get a good thyroid test, they have no business blaming vitamin A for this putative toxic state when all along they leave the door open to be hypothyroid enough to make themselves unable to properly and normally metabolize vitamin A.

If you think it to be inconceivable that a lot of people can exhibit such deficiency in clear thinking, it does happen and is far too common. Too many fables in kindergarten occur in the real world. From the emperor with no clothes to the pied piper of Hamlin. You don't have to be a lemming to act like one.

@Jakeandpace said in What defines the 'bile dump' the Charlie forum always talks about?:

I should say I’m not saying beta-carotene is better and one should eat primarily beta-carotene. I am saying that it is more regulated and that a mixture of adequate retinol from say eggs or milk (or even small amounts of liver but even then it’s risky) combined with adequate carotene from plant sources should provide enough VA in a more controlled and safer way than eating 4 oz of liver weekly which will cause an increase in retinol esters and dis regulation of normal functioning of RBP.

Your logic should also dictate that we all graze like cows instead of eat 3 full meals a day only because there are some people who need to graze because their blood sugar regulation ability is compromised.

Or that we should all avoid eating peanuts because some of us can die from reacting to them poorly.

Eating liver once a week works well for more people than it doesn't. The tiger or lion doesn't get to catch a prey daily so it has the luxury of eating just a small sliver of liver each day. Their body is designed to assimilate the retinol in liver and store them for future use and this is is why vitamin A is oil soluble and not water soluble. Same applies to humans. The norm as we are designed to be dictates there is nothing wrong at all eating liver and getting the benefits of retinol this way. It is more convenient for me to take in retinol this way than to add another daily routine of taking a small amount of retinol supplement everyday.

I'm not even sure taking beta-carotene is better. As beta-carotene needs to be converted by the body to retinol and B12 is needed for that, and maybe some people can't even convert carotene to retinol. Taking retinol directly would be a sure-fire way to get retinol, and I could argue this point.

I have been eating liver once a week for 8 years, and I no longer need to wear glasses to drive, and can still read small type. I'm sixty, and my eyesight is much better than when I was in high school. Otoh, my younger sister, who swears by an expensive supplement maker named Shaklee, sells and uses their supplements religiously. She takes regularly their vitamin A supplement, available only as beta-carotene. Her eyesight is just like the average American. Her ophthalmologist tells her she is due for cataract surgery in a few years. Go figure.

@Jakeandpace said in What defines the 'bile dump' the Charlie forum always talks about?:

Just because something is a whole food doesn’t mean it can’t cause problems due to one factor of it. Take oxalates, take PUFA’s from nuts, take iron from red meat.

Whole food do come with co-factors that make whole foods generally better than taking supplements with extracted nutrients that often come with contaminants and excipients.

I don't believe we buy oxalate supplements at all. But they just come with the foods we eat and are a necessary evil when the body has problems with them, something which not everybody is affected by. I even believe problems with oxalates are iatrogenic, and afflict mostly people being cares for their whole lifetime by the western medical complex. In less industrialized countries unvictimized by "world class" healthcare, problems with oxalates are a rare anomaly.

It is preferable to take nuts in whole food form than to take isolated PUFAs, as in whole food form vitamin E comes with the PUFAs to somewhat neutralize their ill effects.

And iron in red meat is not to be seen as a negative when iron is needed as a nutrient. It's needed to make blood. Iron is bad when it is free iron circulating in the body, but the body in a healthy state handles it well by keeping it stored in proteins that keep it from interacting negatively with microbes and ROS in lipids.

@CO3

I bought this twenty years ago for $30. Harrdly used.

Panasonic BH-941P Ice Cream Maker https://a.co/d/40AJnTZ

Glad I can use rechargeable lithium batteries. That it makes better ice cream should spur me to use it.

@Jakeandpace said in What defines the 'bile dump' the Charlie forum always talks about?:

I have had problems with liver, which is basically a retinol supplement.

A whole food is never to be equated with a supplement. You probably are aware of that, right?

RBP?

Beta-carotene better? Maybe, if you think everyone can convert beta-carotene to retinol easily.

@Mossy

I have a word of caution about such aggregation of research. Knowing the source of recommendations would be very helpful. Not knowing but relying on their word on account of the putative wisdom and pedigree of such research based on titles is risky business, distracting you from finding an actual solution.

One of the doctors cited there, for example, is Carolyn Dean, whose advice to avoid or minimize calcium intake is really ignorant. Without any qualification, her low calcium dosage recommendation leads people to become osteoporotic. She says high calcium leads to calcification. We know she is half right only at best. Because high calcium intake leads to calcification only for the hypothyroid peeps. She lacks understanding of this.

@sharko Nicely put. Zen, if I were to encapsulate it in one word.

@CO3 Thanks. That makes a difference, though without you saying so I would not have preferred using one ice cream maker I have over the other. The one I now prefer is a Japanese small ice cream maker running on lithium batteries that operate inside a freezer. It makes small batches only though, but being inside the freezer means it is able to maintain the cold as much as a compression ice cream maker.

Truth be told, I have only been able to make ice cream once and it's with the larger traditional non compression ice cream maker. Part of my collection of museum pieces of stuff I buy for a life I never actually live lol.

@GreekDemiGod Then my answer applies to them. I think they are a human subspecies that the US Talmudist medical system has over a century of making a legitimate marketplace of competitive medical approaches and systems into a toxic unified racketeering system of medical quackery, managed to make sickly that they are at the worst made unable to use a beneficial vitamin correctly to bring about health and instead made toxic to them. But at its best they are merely blinded by a medical ideology in the hands of a group of seemingly rational people building on a preconceived bias of one or two rabble rouser s pretending to displace or equal Ray Peat.

A certain kind of manifest destiny is subconsciously ingrained in them that makes them think their particular artificial condition, contrived by Talmudist medical quackery, applies to the entire human race, and that their experience defines humanity as udefiled by rhe Talmudist penchant to deceive.