Periodontitis as the latest manifestation of an underlying unexplained problem
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Hello everyone !
I'm new to the forum and maybe it's the first time I've written openly in similar contexts.I am a very sporty 32 year old Italian boy.
6% body fat, 180cm tall and 78kg.
heart rate at rest 50
temperature 36 degrees centigradeit all started in 2017 with intestinal problems that fluctuated and some cavities were promptly treated by the dentist but all in all I was still fine!
in 2019 at the age of 27 I began to have frequent episodes of constipation and diarrhea, and in a short time my hair also began to turn grey.
within a year with the Covid event and forced to stay at home I saw the situation get worse!
from one day to the next I started having hives on my legs and fever for a few weeks, always with intestinal regularity and consequent weight loss!
A few months later I was diagnosed by an andrologist with penile fibrosis which currently causes me few problems but nothing is as before.
And even physically the manhood I had was decreasing month by month!
the gray hairs continued to increase....
things stabilized for a few years.Fast forward to 6 months ago when, following 3 very stressful months at work, literally from one day to the next I found myself with a new crisis that left me in bed for 2 weeks with a fever, pain in my lower left belly (colon) and tingling sensations to people and language.
within 1 month I recover but the stomach ache and the strange sensation in my mouth remain!
my straight teeth gradually begin to become crooked and my stomach constricts as soon as I eat anything.
six months pass and the teeth are more crooked and the gums are receding, it seems like a bad dream that started years ago!
in the meantime I saw many medical specialists and had many tests without ever getting an answer.
the gum situation has worsened since 3 weeks ago I had a check-up at the dentist who touched my mouth and measured the pockets and now I have a sort of infection and swelling of the gums!
I came across the forum and read a lot but I don't have the skills to understand everything....
What could be the way forward to connect everything and try to reverse the trend?! -
@visalibero I'd get thyroid and vitamin D levels checked to start. Last year I was out in the sun every day but was somehow vitamin D deficient! I also had dental problems then.
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@NotShanalotte HI !
vitamin D I have 42 ng/ml
tsh 1.7 -
Hi,
- If your temp is not good, you've got a problem of carburation: thyroid is often the culprit, even when TSH is OK. Limit but OK. TSH indicates only your brain didn't perceive a problem. Problem of analyzing the elements. I would act as if there were a problem. need more specific measures, like T3.
I'd optimize Mg bisglycinate, Se and I.
*) Useful nutrients
Micronutrients as iodine, selenium, magnesium, iron, zinc, and vitamins B12, D3, and A.
DOI: 10.1097/MED.0000000000000831
Note: Before taking any iodine supplement, selenium has to be brought to, event in the case of Hashimoto suspected.
*) Watch out for fluorine, chlorine and bromine
Deiodination is essential to maintain TH homeostasis, and disruption can have detrimental effects. Halogen bonding (XB) to the selenium of the selenocysteine (Sec) residue in the Dio active site has been proposed to contribute to the mechanism for iodine exclusion.
Xenobiotics could also inhibit Dio activity by competitively binding to the active sites of thyroid.
Source:
A Halogen Bonding Perspective on Iodothyronine Deiodinase Activity
DOI: 10.3390/molecules25061328
A metabolic key (metabolic triad) is the adrenal-thyroid-pancreas triad, or the relationship between stress (cortisol), metabolism (thyroid hormones) and sugar (insulin).
All these three areas must be evaluated and treated simultaneously to improve the energy and vitality of the patient.
Source:
The thyroid madness II (Chapter 1): The Integrative and Functional Medicine Approach to Thyroid Diseases. By James Yang, MD, MPH and Andrew Heyman, MD, MHSA- Your suffer from dysbiosis, with a leaky gut.
If your want it, I can develop.
Hope it could help.
- If your temp is not good, you've got a problem of carburation: thyroid is often the culprit, even when TSH is OK. Limit but OK. TSH indicates only your brain didn't perceive a problem. Problem of analyzing the elements. I would act as if there were a problem. need more specific measures, like T3.
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Your sick state began to manifest a few years after you stopped growing at around 25.
At 36°C body temp you are hypothyroid and have low metabolism. Likely chronically in a state of acidity because of low CO2 supply and high lactic acid supply. You have little energy production and are in a constantly stressed state and as a consequence your immunity is not strong, and you are sensitive to falling ill from insults thrown at it from within and without.
All of what's happening with you are symptoms of a vicious cycle that involves a general disintegration within you.
Your microbial health is poor evidently, evidenced externally in your gut from one end to another (mouth to anus). With periodontitis, it is certain that your internal microbial health is poor and that your internal immune system's white blood cells are in a constant state of alert, if not already deployed and causing inflammation.
One thing I have been doing for the past 4 years is to use 150mg of SSKI (supersaturated potassium iodide solution) and it has kept my periodontitis in check. I believe you will benefit from this immediately if only to keep your periodontitis infection in check.
Your problem is systemic, and it didn't come about overnight. It isn't something that is solved by taking a supplement or drug, nor even a stack of it like a magic bullet or an Elysium device (a prime illusion). It involves process thinking and action.
I would tell you to see a naturopath instead of a conventional doctor, but very few naturopath's are thus skilled to handle your case without a lot of trial and error, making you in effect an experimental subject.
A survey of naturopaths having a good orientation towards Ray Peat's bioenergetics principles as well as Beauchamp's terrain theory would be in your best interest. The catch is that there are many charlatans and many know nothings that are glib that can just as well lead you to detours in an endless fashion. So be careful and discerning in your search.
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hi ! thanks for the reply!
In general I am almost always full of energy and in a good mood and I manage to do everything in my day!I have always taken my body to the extreme with sport!
I worked as a professional until I was 28 and it was my job.
even now I climb mountain peaks without problems every week.
even though I realize that my health is giving me important signals....reading on the RPF,
I took the materials to Dr. Manhart's football.
I've been using them for a week!
after using a calcium strip I got an ulcer on my gum that won't go away... from what they say they seem like good products right?Isn't SSKI used to treat hyperthyroidism?
how should I use it?
In your experience, have you seen a regression of periodontitis to how it was before or is it a way to contain the infection?
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*the materials of the calcium therapy institute
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@yerrag
If there was a subgingival cleaning to be done, would it be a good thing to do in your opinion? -
A high dose of SSKI can have bad effects on thyroid for a tiny minority of people. Ray Peat discourages its use. Which is why I have 200mcg capsules of selenium selenium on hand, in case I am to find out I am part of that minority. But I am to find with daily 150mg use to manage and control my periodontitis (credit to @Jam) that I no longer fear losing another teeth to extraction due to periodontitis
[In case the first sign of hyperthyroidism occurs, eg rising temperatures, I take 1 capsule of selenium, and it stops runaway production of hydrogen peroxide from destroying the thyroid gland]
3 drops of SSKI (using a 15drops/ml dropper) gives 150ml of SSKI. At the end of my nightly dental routine, I put in SSKI in a 1/8 cup or 30ml of water and use it as a mouthwash for a minute or two and swallow it after I'm done.
My nightly dental routine consists of:
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Irrigating my teeth with Waterpik or equivalent (although Dr. Manhardt advises against it, I found it hard to remove stuck food particles without it).
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Using Manhardt's oral mouthwash.
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Brushing with his calcium-zinc backed toothbrush to brush my teeth.
I have not been to visit my biologist dentist for 3 years (he was following the COVID protocols and I don't like that) and I manage to both keep it periodontitis in check and I didn't need to do a twice yearly dental cleaning.
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No, using 3 drops (150mg) SSKI daily as final mouthwash is superior, in my experience.
No matter what x-ray is used, it would be hard to identify remaining pockets of infection left in the periodontal crevices. Any mechanical or chemical attempt to totally remove the periodontal infection is a probabilistic impossibility.
Once the sterile periodontal space is breached, in my opinion it would be impossible to make it sterile anymore, and a lifetime of daily SSKI mouthwash would be the only way to manage effectively the infection. With no exception.
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@yerrag
I understand ! thank you very much for the explanation!It seems very effective and to be used with experience.....
Are you by any chance familiar with Mark Bonner's method?
Use 1% hydrogen peroxide and baking soda and salt to keep your mouth clean -
That's new to me. How effective has it been? What is the formula. I may not use, but could share with others who don't have periodontitis.
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@yerrag
essentially the method consists in carrying out a parasitic analysis of the pockets, he states that it is a disease that is acquired and transmitted.... the main culprit would be amoeba gingivalis.the protocol is based on the antibiotic metronidazole
and a fundamental component for him is to do home cleaning with hydrogen peroxide and Torrens powder (6 parts sodium bicarbonate and 1 part salt) 2 times a day for a whole year.
the patient must remove the dead tartar deposits on a monthly basis.
according to him and according to various people I saw on the web they would be definitively healed by undergoing a routine with peroxide and powder 2 times a week after the year of treatment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq-M7m9uE7w
I tried it but without a therapist who followed me only with the home treatment.
I felt better until I went to the dentist who, probing my pockets with my eyes closed, inflamed my gums worse than before!
The upper incisors were fine and after he inserted the probe he had used for the infected teeth deep into the healthy pocket of my upper teeth, now after a month I had a small but visible recess in the gum above the incisors as if he had brought manually in a sealed area before periodontal infection. -
That seems very involved. Needing a long period where anything could happen in between, requiring a lot of discipline where one mistake could undo everything.
I prefer a simpler approach. Makes me glad for having used one, and one that is successfully done. The simplicity is a key factor.
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HI @yerrag
Do you think that SSKI has the same effect on the teeth even if I don't swallow it after rinsing in the mouth? I would like to start using it! Do I need a doctor's prescription? -
I'm not sure if the effect is the same as when swallowed it still has a systemic antibiotic effect that affects your periodontal region.
it depends on where you live I guess if prescription is needed. In the US and the Phils. no prescription is needed when you buy potassium iodide USP in crystal form. And you make it into sski ff. instructions you can find from the internet.
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@yerrag
Thank you for your valuable information!However, I still don't understand the mechanism behind how this condition develops!
I have an identical twin who doesn't even brush his teeth and has no problems!
I had better oral hygiene than him and a much healthier lifestyle and out of the blue in a year I developed this condition!
Yes, I had other problems... but my teeth were fine overall.
in a year they became a little crooked and I saw the gums recede...
I remember that especially in the first few months I woke up with the feeling that I had used my lungs a lot at night! like that feeling of difficulty breathing after a run
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I used to easily develop plaque easily. It is actually endotoxin from the gut. These endotoxin create a pith on your tooth enamel, and allow the entry of bacteria into your periodontal space. Once breached, the periodontal region is no longer sterile and eventually develop colonies of periodontal bacteria. Your teeth become loose as the bacteria eats into your teeth's nerves as well as into the bone that holds each of your tooth.
Your brother likely eats in a way that doesn't allow endotoxins to develop a lot. Perhaps he eats plenty of raw shredded carrots or Cooke's bamboo shoots that have antibacterial properties as well as insoluble fibers that keeps in check the growth of the gut microbiome. Or he eats plenty of insoluble fibers and a minimum of soluble fibers. Cooked greens have plenty of insoluble fibers while many fruits have soluble fibers. Some people have the wrong idea of eating a lot of fruits for their roughage in order to effect good bowel movement, not knowing the soluble fibers feed the growth of bacteria and result in huge production of endotoxins, which travel upwards towards the mouth and cause plaque to develop.
I think an acidic mouth also allow more bacteria to grow which with the help of endotoxins make their way into your periodontal space. It helps to have an alkaline saliva, but an alkaline saliva is not easy to achieve with poor metabolic health, as poor metabolism produces more lactic acid and less CO2 which is alkalizing.
Furthermore, we humans are not in the habit of chewing on bony remains when we eat animals. Cats and dogs do, when they don't eat from processed cat and dog food. They chew up and swallow bones and as a result have good teeth without going thru the silly motions of brushing their teeth with fancy designs of toothbrushes and useless toothpastes which do squat for you and make your dentist fat. I think the hydroxyapatite in bones have a tooth preserving effect. I suspect Dr. Manhart uses calcium hydroxyapatite in his mouthwash and this is why his mouthwash and toothbrush are an effective combo in preserving tooth health.
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@yerrag
it's absurd because he doesn't do much sport at all, he smokes! and he eats random things....
I am convinced that it could also have been that 7 years ago I broke a tooth due to a blow to the face and I had to extract it (the only tooth I am missing) I have never placed an implant thinking I will place it later....
the right one got twisted and the gum also left a bloody crack in it... I think they entered from there and over time it started to develop!
So the current strategy would be impeccable oral hygiene, low production of toxins and fixing the metabolism to strengthen the immune system?
here in Italy in my opinion we are ahead on some things but behind on others.
there are no doctors who look at things with this holistic philosophy!
and if there are any, they are unrealistic or scammers who were selling sofas until the day before. -
another thing I noticed and the photos I take are proof.
that my teeth were until 1 year ago or when I started to see the changes! then bigger, harder, whiter naturally.People who have naturally white teeth also usually have beautiful gums!
and they are even healthier and more virile!
the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree
