@Samyo

Samyo said
I wasnt eating much vitamin C prior to when my ferritin was at 488 on my first blood test.
=> Less beef (high in heme iron). When you eat meat, eat a slice of cheese (gouda or Leerdammer type). Above 40 mg Ca, there is less iron available, in theory.

Im finding goat milk to make me warm but very itchy and dandruff prone
=> What about a milk without lactose, at a moderate amount (180 ml)? If you tolerate it well (digestion), the problem is elsewhere. Similitude of protein configuration with whey (agglutinin wga)

grains/starch all lead to dry skin, when im hot my sweat stings my skin
=> Grain reaction is the sign of intolerance to gluten. Everybody is more or less reactive to wga. We repair the tight junctions during sleep. So moderation at the beginning of the process (SIBO) or total avoidance is required when the immune system has encoded the “enemy”.
=> Potatoes, bread and pasta are composed of two kind of starch. With soluble and insoluble fibers. If you don’t go to feces 2x/d, it remains too long in the second part of the colon. It feeds bacteria that have nothing to do there. Overgrowth in sight.

A lot of supplements have the same affect, drying to my skin, cascara, betaine hcl. I notice my left hand always drys out on my palm.
=> No betaine Hcl if irritable bowel.
No cascara too with irritable bowel. If you’re constipated, I’ll try another approach. Get informed on MMC + B1.
I’ve use Resolor 0.5 mg. to assist the MMC in order to re-educate/facilitate postprandial intestinal contractions (inter-digestive).
MMC = Migrant motor complex
MMC makes reference to the intestinal motility due to electrical contractions in the inter-digestive periods (between two meals).
See my forum for details (my log):
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2029-demangeaison-et-histamine-journal-de-suivi-2?highlight=Complexe+moteur+migrant

Useful links
*) Dr. Costantini and bacterial overgrowth
SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? – June 2020
https://www.hormonesmatter.com/sibo-ibs-constipation-thiamine-deficiency/
*) Thiamine Deficiency - A Potential Cause of SIBO and other Gut Dysfunction?
Elliot Overton – Nutrition and Functional Medicine – 01/2019
https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/thiamine-deficiency-a-major-cause-of-sibo
Thiamine deficiency - A consequence or cause of SIBO?
Thiamine Deficiency as Potential Cause for Gut Dysfunction.
· Gut motility, stomach acid and digestive enzyme secretion, and regulation of the intestinal barrier are governed by the vagus nerve, which is a component of the autonomic nervous system.
· The lower parts of the brain responsible for autonomic nervous system coordination are highly sensitive to thiamine deficiency.
· Thiamine deficiency can lead to autonomic nervous system dysfunction, abnormal vagal tone, and lower acetylcholine synthesis.
· Autonomic dysfunction can induce all of the symptoms associated with SIBO and should be considered in cases where traditional therapies are ineffective.

I took carrot salad to stop the direahh now, my bowels have stopped working
=> 30 to 40 g fibers when normalized bowels.
Need to calm down first. + reeducation of MMC.
If you suffer from bacterial overgrowth (gas, flatulence, alternate diarrhea with constipation, bad smell of stools (rotten eggs), you must elaborate a plan, with a progressive “attack”. First calm down, then moderate and orientate the kind of bacteria, possibly with some essential oils (e.g.) to kill excess proliferation. Don’t take a medicine / supplement to amplify the good microbiota at first side.

Info on Resolor (prucaloride 0.5 mg), acting as a prokinetic, not as a laxative.
Prokinetics have the capacity to amplify and coordinate muscular contractions of the intestine. They can act on different sites of action, both on the upper part of the digestive system such as the stomach or the small intestine and on the colon. Prokinetics can improve gastric emptying by coordinating the closing of the lower esophageal sphincter and the opening of the pyloric sphincter while the stomach contracts. They are known for their ability to stimulate the migrating motor complex (MMC) to clean the small intestine of this waste. Certain prokinetics have the ability to improve intestinal transit and can be used for example during constipation. However, prokinetics should not be confused with laxatives. (…)

@GRay said in B-complex and or Multi recommendation?:

I heard Georgi talking about it many times in a negative way as cancer promoter

Not at this dose, in a supplement, as an antioxidant (citric acid).
The dual role of citrate in cancer
Excerpt
In this context, targeting citrate and citrate-related metabolism [[6], [7], [8]] may appear to be a novel and hopeful option. Citrate is an intermediate of the tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle (also known as Krebs cycle). In the cytosol, it is cleaved by ATP-citrate lyase (ACLY) into oxalacetate (OAA) and acetyl-CoA. The latter is the primary substrate for fatty acid (FA) synthesis (FAS) or protein acetylation (either in the cytosol or in the nucleus for epigenetic modifications). Increased de novo FAS is one of the hallmarks of cancer cells, as well as an increase in aerobic glycolysis, the so-called Warburg effect [9]. Therefore, an adequate citrate supply is crucial to sustain cancer cells growth. However, citrate is also a Ca2+ and Mg2+ chelator, as well as a potent inhibitor of phosphofructokinase-1 (PFK1), the key regulatory enzyme of glycolysis [10], and also of phosphofructokinase-2 (PFK2) [11], which produces fructose-2,6-bisphosphate (F-2,6-BP), the main potent activator of PFK1 [12]. Consequently, proliferative cancer cells need to strictly control their intracellular citrate level to keep their metabolism balanced. Indeed, while a low level of citrate could impair cancer cell growth due to decreased FAS, an excessive level may have detrimental effects on glycolysis, ATP production and cell survival [13,14]. Therefore, such a need for a strict control of intracellular citrate level by cancer cells may offer two strategies potentially valid for cancer treatment, i.e., (1) reducing intracellular citrate levels (for example by inhibiting citrate uptake) and (2) flooding cells with excessive citrate to arrest glycolysis.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.bbcan.2023.188987
Science Direct 2023. Philippe Icard et al.

@albion said in B-complex and or Multi recommendation?:

Would you recommend someone trying to diagnose if they need more Cysteine to take NAC? If yes, just as a diagnostic tool or ok as a regular/intermittent supplement?

Mind the combination of NAC with B3, if high dose, at a prolonged use.
*) When Niacin(or vitamin B3) and NAC (N-acetyl cysteine) are combined, especially under specific pH and concentration conditions, a chemical reaction may occur that forms pyrazinic acid (pyrazine).
Most sources specify that no interaction has been found between NAC and niacinamide (or nicotinamide). This is incorrect when there is prolonged concomitant use with a high dosage of NAC.
The toxic effects of pyrazinic acid may include cellular damage and oxidative stress, which is of particular concern for people with predispositions to oxidative stress-related diseases.

Sources and References

1. Hepatotoxicity related to anti-tuberculosis drugs: mechanisms and management
   https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jceh.2012.12.001 2013.
   The toxicity of pyrazinamide is both dose dependent with a higher dose at 40–50 mg/kg, with NAC combination. (2 800 to 3 500 mg NAC for 70 Kg/weight, or +/ 170 Lb).
2. Unproven (questionable) cancer therapies.
   ML Brigden - Western Journal of Medicine, 1995 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
   Mega-doses of vitamin B3 (niacin) have liver toxicity and have produced acid peptic disease,
   myocardial infarct, gouty arthritis, glucose intolerance, hyperkeratosis, and skin rashes."

@CrumblingCookie said in B-complex and or Multi recommendation?:

Hence they create a relative lack of cystine, cysteine and sulfate.

Do you mean that when lowering homocysteine high enough with a high dose TMG, there is not enough cystine and cysteine remaining to ensure metabolic functions?

I didn't find information after a Google search.

@GRay said in B-complex and or Multi recommendation?:

in the case of using a b-complex, is a multimineral a good idea?

We often lack potassium (unless you eat vegan or eat 8 portions of fruit / vegetable) and magnesium. Not possible to get the right amount in a softgel or a tablet.
Vtamin B complex paradox
I won’t take a B-50 complex every day. No need and after all counter-productive (1). I personally take it twice a week.
B50 stimulates cell growth when taking every day, on long-lasting term, if B1 < 90 mg. So, not in cure. Expressed differently, RDA is OK (1.2 mg B1), high dose thiamin (B1) is OK when higher than 90 mg B1.

Sources & references

1. The dichotomous effect of thiamine supplementation on cancer cell growth is characterized by growth stimulation at low doses and growth suppression at high doses. Unfortunately, how thiamine reduces cancer cell proliferation is currently unknown.
   Source: National Institutes of Health (NIH)
   High Dose Vitamin B1 Reduces Proliferation in Cancer Cell Lines Analogous to Dichloroacetate
   doi: 10.1007/s00280-014-2386-z 2014. Cancer Chemother Pharmacol.
2. The Dark Side of B Complex Vitamin Supplementation (In French, translator needed, but with links in English)
   Interest in appropriate and balanced supplementation. Put differently, too much of a good thing is counterproductive.
   Key ideas

• The art of correctly measuring a pharmacological dosage
• B50 stimulates cell growth (if B1 < 90 mg)
• HD Thiamin depletes riboflavin (B2)
• If you stimulate step 1 of glycolysis (glucose => Pyruvic Acid => Acetyl CoA), without adequate intake of nutrients useful for step 2 (Acetyl CoA => Citric acid cycle), for example B6 or biotin, you will create an imbalance, which, if the situation continues, will lead to neurological deficiencies.
  To be continued / detailed on my forum (in French):
  https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2070-le-cote-obscur-de-la-supplementation-en-vitamines-b-complexes#29900

3. The benefits and harms of dietary supplements
   https://nutrition.tufts.edu/news/nutrients-food-not-supplements
   Fang Fang Zhang, M.D., Ph.D at Tufts University
   Excerpt:
   The researchers found the use of dietary supplements had no influence on mortality. People with adequate intake of vitamin A, vitamin K, magnesium, zinc, and copper were less likely to die. However, that relationship only held for nutrient intake from food consumption.
   Note’s author (LucH): There are biases / limitations in this study (the way of life, nutrient interactions, the posology and the form of supplements).

@Insr said in Bloodwork shows elevated TPOAb (Hashimoto's disease):

my iodine is about 436mcg and things have improved a lot so far.

No need to be so high. I'd target 150 - 300 mcg Iodine, the lower side (125 mcg) when thyroid is inflamed. Not necessary every day. But with take of selenium first (200 mcg) in both case. When replenished, slow down Se. And adapt with long staples enough to see if you tolerate it well.
Adapt to what your body tells you.

Edit: Mind iodonized salt. Not always thé right kind. It can block receptors.

@insufferable said in Bloodwork shows elevated TPOAb (Hashimoto's disease):

Stopping iodized salt is working!

Well, you reach a staple: Too much of a good thing is bad, especially with a overreactive thyroid when it's inflamed. Adapt to your sensations.

For other readers.
If I summarize: No iodine supplement (titled 125 mcg) without taking first selenium (100- 200 mcg).
We need to make staples (10-15 days). If overreaction, stop the supplement.
Details below:

Hashimoto, cruciferous & iodine

Cruciferous vegetables contain thioglucosides that are metabolized to thiocyanates. Thiocyanates compounds inhibit iodine transport and the incorporation of iodide into thyroglobulin, thus increasing TSH secretion and thyroid cells proliferation.
Here are some members of the brassicaceae family, cruciferous vegetables that includes broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, collard greens, kale, turnips, corn salad (lamb lettuce) and watercress, radish and nearly all the cabbage family (pakchoï, mustard, wasabi, etc.).
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/vegetables/vgen/cruciferous-vegetables.htm
Moderated consumption of cruciferous greens doesn’t affect the thyroid function, but well if you drink a smoothie every day with such greens. Similarly, consumption of high amounts of cruciferous vegetables has been associated with increased thyroid cancer risk only in iodine-deficient areas (57). The concern has been that they may interfere with the production of thyroid hormone if you have an iodine deficiency. Those vegetables are said to be goitrogens.
So we need iodine, preferably from food, but before taking a moderate supplement of iodine, in the case of Hashimoto’s – event if we ‘re told not to – we have to be replenished first with selenium (55 mcg Se is the RDA). Be careful when dosing iodine as too much at once can be toxic.
However, any supplement can have an adverse reaction in an individual. So adapt yourself to the ground, how you feel. And take time to adapt: we need staples 10-15 days to adapt oneself and see the effect on thyroid. Moreover, if your thyroid is inflamed (immune reaction), you’ll need antioxidants to dampen the possible overreaction (Se 200 mcg and Vit C 600 – 1 000 mg, split into 2 or 3 takes, because of half-life).
Precaution: No manganese as a supplement; only from food. No vitamin C at the same time as kelp supplement, even if it very low titled (125 mcg). No need to take it every day, especially when you eat fish or seafood.
I repeat: We have to manage to avoid a possible overreaction: Iodine is a mighty antioxidant (it protects against free radicals and peroxides), has strong bactericidal as well as antiviral and antifungal activity. No need to overstimulate a wounded organ. An unadapt dose of iodine can trigger or worsen hypothyroidism.
Finally, if you seem to react to goitrogens, you may also wish to look into SIBO, sulfur sensitivity, iodine deficiency and the CBS gene mutation…

Sources & References
*) Iodine and thyroid function
https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/food-beverages/cruciferous-vegetables#:~:text=One study in humans found,-deficient areas (57).

*) Goitrogen effect of some foods
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/what-are-goitrogens-and-do-they-matter-with-hashimotos/

*) Controversy of iodine in Hashimoto
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/iodine-hashimotos/
• The controversy around iodine
• How iodine affects Hashimoto’s
• The sweet spot for iodine
Excerpt:
Any supplement can have an adverse reaction in an individual, and I wish this was a one-time report, but I have received countless messages like the one above, and have seen many similar reports in clients who came to me after trying high dose iodine on their own, or with other practitioners.
Initially, a person given iodine may experience more energy, but they then crash and feel worse. This is because iodine, given to a subset of people with Hashimoto’s, can make the thyroid produce more hormone initially, but unfortunately, in doing so without having enough selenium and antioxidants on board, the increased hormone production creates lots of free radicals, which can flare up the attack on the thyroid gland.
Iodine needs to be processed by the thyroid gland, and when the thyroid is inflamed, the processing of iodine will likely produce more inflammation. If you give an angry and overwhelmed organ more work to do, you’ll likely see it become even angrier!
A person may feel more energetic when first starting an iodine supplement, but lab tests will reveal that their “new energy” is coming from the destruction of thyroid tissue, which dumps thyroid hormone into the circulation. Reports will show an elevated TSH, elevated thyroid antibodies, and in some cases, low levels of active thyroid hormones.
This is why I don’t generally recommend iodine supplements to people with Hashimoto’s. I don’t believe that the short-term artificial boost in energy is worth destroying your thyroid gland!

*) Antioxidants are crucial to thyroid health…
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/nutrient-depletions-vi-antioxidants/#:~:text=Antioxidants are crucial to thyroid,the minerals selenium and manganese.

*) Iodine has strong bactericidal as well as antiviral and antifungal activity.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8709459/
*) Role of dietary iodine and cruciferous vegetables in thyroid cancer
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3496161/
Iodine is a micronutrient necessary for human development and health. It is required for the synthesis of thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3).

*) Recommended Amounts for Iodine
https://nutritionsource.hsph.harvard.edu/iodine/
RDA iodine is 150 mcg
Iodine is needed to make the thyroid hormones thyroxine and triiodothyronine, which assist with the creation of proteins and enzyme activity, as well as regulating normal metabolism.
Iodine is required in the process of formation of deiodinase (Dio) enzymes. They’re 4 types Dio
What is the role of deiodinase 1?
Deiodinases are important for determining intracellular thyroid hormone availability. Type 1 deiodinase (Dio1) is expressed in the liver, kidney, thyroid, and pituitary. Dio1 catalyzes outer and inner ring deiodination of T4, T3, and rT3, and, thus, can both activate and inactivate thyroid hormone.

@Samyo said in Bacteria creating overgrowth of b12:

1 / 1

Im sure I have plenty of iron?

Reply Quote

I know. Assimilation and iron in blood are 2 different things.
Edit: Problem to get rid of excess iron in blood.
So forget Vit C, as it's going to amplify the assimilation.
NB: I don't master the whole subject.

@Samyo said in Bacteria creating overgrowth of b12:

I noticed im actually way colder, after more fiber intake too

Well, when the thyroid is sluggish, you usually feel weak and colder.
As you liver manage iron with difficulty, you have to take another way than with heme from meat.
To optimize iron absorption from non-heme sources (vegetables), we need the following nutrients / cofactors: Vit C, copper, B9 and B12 in order to allow iron to enter hemoglobine.

To optimize the thyroid we need:
Zn, Mg, I and Se.
We often lack Mg and I. No Zn enough if you don't eat meat.

@insufferable said in Bloodwork shows elevated TPOAb (Hashimoto's disease):

Is there anything specifically that suggests those to you?

Hi,
One clue: Jean Seignalet, French immunologist, thought that this auto-immune illness could have been enhanced by a xenopathogen, an antibacterial peptide coming from a bacteria or food, passing along the intestines. This peptide is then presented by HLA-DR to T CD+ lymphocytes. An autoimmune reaction happens and inflammation is then going to dampen and attack the thyroid function.