DHT with test?
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I think taking test with DHT would simply exacerbate the problem of shutdown.
Also, it depends on how you intend to take the test. If you're going to take it transdermally or orally, a large portion of it will convert to DHT anyway, making your DHT powder redundant.
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@Crypt-Keeper I can only second this. Esp. If taking DHEA topically as well. The DHT will inhibit aromatase activity, theoretically also increasing testosterone pool. DHT depleting testosterone does not make sense either, as even progesterone alone, that is administered topically alone, will increase testosterone - granted metabolism and blood markers are supporting it.
Proper DHEA conversion will beat testosterone in my experience...that is after years of trialing injection & oral of testosterone
You don't even need DMSO, been taking topical DHT for years in SCFA/Tocopherol 1:1. Its effect cannot be mistaken. Absorption is very good applied just arm/neck or whatever area.
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@Crypt-Keeper Lol have you taken DHT solo for any length of time
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@risingfire No, because I have no need for it.
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@Crypt-Keeper yea so why would test cause a greater shutdown and exacerbate it? DHT is far stronger than test
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@risingfire Things that are suppressive: E2, DHT and T
Therefore my thinking is that if DHT is suppressive, then the combo DHT + T would be even more suppressive. Depends on dosing of course.
Non-esterified testosterone has pretty quick clearance rates though. So how suppressive they really are probably depends on dose and how close to bedtime they are taken.
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@Crypt-Keeper Planning on transermally for both. AFAIK transdermal has a lower conversion to estrogen. Also, is no estrogen a problem? Ik people have joint pain when low e, but I think Peat said that was because low pregnenolone levels. As long as it's low doses and estrogen dosen't rise to high you shoudn't have shutdown.
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@PrinceTrebata Well, estrogen is a problem for me. It's actually the only problem I want to solve but can't figure out how. I've always had all those symptoms of low e2 and they suck, and confirmed it with bloodwork. E2 is always very low, but T is very high. It's weird. I've been trying DHEA and boron but not sure it's doing anything. I'm trying to avoid DHT a bit because it can be anti-estrogenic.
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@Crypt-Keeper I Think Peat has said some of the popular low e2 symptoms are due to low pregnenolone but I might be wrong. I'm curious if you don't mind sharing how tall are you, and do you have generally larger and denser bones? I have heard some people say you need estrogen in order to grow bigger, but I think they are generally misguided.
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@PrinceTrebata I've checked pregnenolone on blood tests and it seemed normal, but not sure if that means anything. I've tried taking 5-10mg sublingually but haven't noticed much. Maybe I need to take a lot more.
I'm 5'9", which is average for my cohort (young people seem much taller these days), but I probably could have been an inch or two taller if I had actually eaten well when growing up. I ate like a bird. Never really had much of an appetite. I have a small frame and small bones too and they don't seem to be too dense, either. My bodyfat scale says I have low bone mass.
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@Crypt-Keeper Interesting. Best of luck to you I hope your e2 problems.
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@Crypt-Keeper you already probably know this correlation with E2, but is prolactin high or low?
''Some cool quote''
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@Crypt-Keeper not sure how this translates into getting more suppressed but good luck with the theoretical guessing. If you take DHT with no test you will experience terrible side effects as your DHT/Test ratio gets lower.
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@Crypt-Keeper sorry if that came off rudely. I just felt awful when I was on DHT only
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@risingfire Depends on your dose, method of application. Could you expand on what you mean by ''terrible side effects''?
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@Bye4ever I had it checked twice. First time it was flagged high: 25.9 ng/mL [RI: 4-15.2] and the second time it was high-normal: 10.8 ng/mL. On those same tests estradiol was 19 and 18 pg/mL respectively and testosterone 787 and 450 ng/dL. The second test I had horrible, broken sleep the night before yet prolactin was surprisingly lower.
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@risingfire Sorry, I should clarify. I'm not recommending somebody should take DHT only. I recommend taking Test only.
I personally don't even think people should be chasing DHT unless they actually have symptoms and / or bloodwork showing low DHT and / or unopposed estrogen. But that's just my personal view based on my own hormonal profile.
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@Crypt-Keeper I assume 10-50 pg/mL is the reference. Do you conclude that you have low E2 symptoms still?
''Some cool quote''
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@Bye4ever Oh yeah... cracky, achy joints. Poor strength and flexibility. Impossible to get a pump. Low mood. Weight lifting is practically futile. Libido is fine though. Maybe a bit too high.
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@Crypt-Keeper If I may share my experience....If libido is too high or even just functional, it is likely not low E2. I have tried basically every estrogen blocker on earth...Masteron, Primo, Aromasin, Arimidex, Nolvadex...and many many more. In the end, there is no libido if E2 is just slightly below ref.
Now E2 is normal but lust is only to occur every 2 weeks. That is normal, not several times a week.
That is just my 2 cents worth of opinion.
Lastly, most people like take too much DHT to begin with. I wonder if someone consistently take 1 mg or less and see.
Everyone seems to love testosterone, without really understanding what it does, by the same extension, that's why most on this forum shy away from progesterone. A lot on this forum should get educated
''Some cool quote''
