Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?
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Thiamine supplementation is working well. I have a lot more energy and don't suffer from hypoglycemia anymore. Things keep getting better over time and I am making massive strides in both the gym and on my personal projects. Mood has become more stable as well. Stopped drinking coffee because it no longer seems necessary.
I was skeptical about the dosages at first, but it seems like 2g/day is really appropriate for me. It seems like ludicrous large dose compared to what is used by the body so I wonder how the numbers, absorption rate, etc., add up.
I stopped taking the Niaciamide, it causes me nose congestion and thus bad sleep, which might have been the reason for the emotional confusion at the beginning.
Before what I ate barely had an impact on my energy levels as I just was low energy most of the time. Now I feel hungry a lot more and I notice how much I eat has a big impact on whether I am low or high energy. In a way I feel like I need to relearn my intuition about when to eat what, before the signals were just too noisy to really make any sense.
Thiamine deficiency seems to explain a lot of the energy related issues I had in my life, following roughly this outline:
- Depressed state for 6 months, stop eating carbs because they no longer provide energy.
- Thiamine levels recovered, "Rediscover" carbs, feel great for like a week.
- Low but acceptable thiamine levels for 1-2 months where I can eat "normal" meals and feel mostly okay.
- Thiamine levels are depleted and the cycle restarts.
Many thanks to you @mostlylurking, your suggestion really seems to have resolved the large bane of my youth. I hope I can make the best out of this gift.
So it seems like naturally through nutrition I only get about 1/6th of the thiamine surplus that would be needed for a healthy sugar metabolism.
Occasionally there were also moments were I would get frustrated and over-rely on stress hormones to compensate for the lack of energy, ending up burning out in the process.
I probably had to deal with Thiamine deficiency since I was 7-8 (meaning for like the last 22 years). Back then I changed from a quite energetic extroverted kid to a anxious and depressed introvert. That said I have no idea what could have triggered that, according to my mother there was no change in what food we ate. Heavy metal poisoning like you gals where talking about seems very unlikely. A kind of fungal poisoning might have been possible (my mother has a poverty mindset and thus was very stingy with heating), but also seems improbable, I don't even know if that could cause that kind of symptoms.
Since there is no particular environmental causes I can point to I am considering if it could be genetic, my father has started to have some tremors in his hands, which I understand can be a symptom of a thiamine deficiency, he also isn't the most energetic guy.
Third option, but that might be pure wishful thinking, is just a predisposition to activities that use up a lot of Thiamine, meaning I just need a lot more than the average guy.
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@API-Beast said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
Thiamine supplementation is working well. I have a lot more energy and don't suffer from hypoglycemia anymore. Things keep getting better over time and I am making massive strides in both the gym and on my personal projects. Mood has become more stable as well. Stopped drinking coffee because it no longer seems necessary.
I take it you are using thiamine hcl, 2 grams/day? I don't drink coffee anymore either. It blocks thiamine function (somehow). It's great you are seeing noticeable improvements!
I was skeptical about the dosages at first, but it seems like 2g/day is really appropriate for me. It seems like ludicrous large dose compared to what is used by the body so I wonder how the numbers, absorption rate, etc., add up.
I stopped taking the Niaciamide, it causes me nose congestion and thus bad sleep, which might have been the reason for the emotional confusion at the beginning.
Niacinamide is one of the supplements that Elliot Overton advises to take when high dosing thiamine. I take 100mg of niacinamide 4Xday. Elliot also recommends taking some riboflavin; I also take 100mg of riboflavin, 4Xday. Magnesium is very important because high dose thiamine will use up more magnesium. I take 3100mg of magnesium glycinate/day, divided into two doses; this equals to 400mg of magnesium.
Before what I ate barely had an impact on my energy levels as I just was low energy most of the time. Now I feel hungry a lot more and I notice how much I eat has a big impact on whether I am low or high energy. In a way I feel like I need to relearn my intuition about when to eat what, before the signals were just too noisy to really make any sense.
It is helpful to eat a diet rich in nutrients, including enough protein. Dr. Costantini's FAQs include practical advice.
Thiamine deficiency seems to explain a lot of the energy related issues I had in my life, following roughly this outline:
- Depressed state for 6 months, stop eating carbs because they no longer provide energy.
- Thiamine levels recovered, "Rediscover" carbs, feel great for like a week.
- Low but acceptable thiamine levels for 1-2 months where I can eat "normal" meals and feel mostly okay.
- Thiamine levels are depleted and the cycle restarts.
It is important to have your carb/sugars intake in balance with your available thiamine and your body's needs. Some people simply need more thiamine than others. Elliot Overton's video here explains.
Many thanks to you @mostlylurking, your suggestion really seems to have resolved the large bane of my youth. I hope I can make the best out of this gift.
I think it would be helpful to you to learn more about thiamine so you better understand what's happening and how thiamine is helping you.
Elliot Overton's videos about thiamine are very good.
I also found Dr. Lonsdale's articles very helpful.So it seems like naturally through nutrition I only get about 1/6th of the thiamine surplus that would be needed for a healthy sugar metabolism.
You lost me.
I think what is important is for your thiamine availability to be in sync with your carbohydrate intake. If you consume too many carbs it will result in a thiamine deficiency and can cause problems. If you are a person who needs more thiamine than average, this will change the equation. Some people need higher doses of thiamine than others. There's a lot of variability.
Occasionally there were also moments were I would get frustrated and over-rely on stress hormones to compensate for the lack of energy, ending up burning out in the process.
Stress depletes thiamine; thiamine is needed to deal with oxidative stress. Information on stress and thiamine:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0197018613000120
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0197018601001206?via%3DihubI probably had to deal with Thiamine deficiency since I was 7-8 (meaning for like the last 22 years). Back then I changed from a quite energetic extroverted kid to a anxious and depressed introvert. That said I have no idea what could have triggered that, according to my mother there was no change in what food we ate. Heavy metal poisoning like you gals where talking about seems very unlikely. A kind of fungal poisoning might have been possible (my mother has a poverty mindset and thus was very stingy with heating), but also seems improbable, I don't even know if that could cause that kind of symptoms.
Since there is no particular environmental causes I can point to I am considering if it could be genetic, my father has started to have some tremors in his hands, which I understand can be a symptom of a thiamine deficiency, he also isn't the most energetic guy.
Dr. Costantini treated thousands of Parkinson's Disease patients successfully with high dose thiamine. If the hand tremors are treated quickly enough, high dose thiamine can resolve them, but not always.
Dr. Costantini's patients' before and after treatment videos
Third option, but that might be pure wishful thinking, is just a predisposition to activities that use up a lot of Thiamine, meaning I just need a lot more than the average guy.
Yes, that's a possibility.
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@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I take it you are using thiamine hcl, 2 grams/day? I don't drink coffee anymore either. It blocks thiamine function (somehow). It's great you are seeing noticeable improvements!
Yes, exactly.
So it seems like naturally through nutrition I only get about 1/6th of the thiamine surplus that would be needed for a healthy sugar metabolism.
You lost me.
I just mean that it takes about 6 months of very low carb eating to build up enough Thiamine reserves to sustain about 1 month of mixed, normal eating. A ratio of 1/6. Just adjusting carbs to thiamine levels is not feasible as that just results in said long depressive period.
By surplus I mean whatever ingested amount is above what is required daily to sustain the basic function, without eating any extra carbs beyond that, but the math isn't super important.
I think what is important is for your thiamine availability to be in sync with your carbohydrate intake. If you consume too many carbs it will result in a thiamine deficiency and can cause problems. If you are a person who needs more thiamine than average, this will change the equation. Some people need higher doses of thiamine than others. There's a lot of variability.
Occasionally there were also moments were I would get frustrated and over-rely on stress hormones to compensate for the lack of energy, ending up burning out in the process.
Stress depletes thiamine; thiamine is needed to deal with oxidative stress. Information on stress and thiamine:
Yes I read that from your conversations with yerrag. Those stressful periods were quite unpleasant and ineffective.
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@API-Beast said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I just mean that it takes about 6 months of very low carb eating to build up enough Thiamine reserves to sustain about 1 month of mixed, normal eating. A ratio of 1/6. Just adjusting carbs to thiamine levels is not feasible as that just results in said long depressive period.
By surplus I mean whatever ingested amount is above what is required daily to sustain the basic function, without eating any extra carbs beyond that, but the math isn't super important.
I'm sorry but what you are saying doesn't make sense.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/thiamine-deficiency-symptoms#basics
"Like the other B vitamins, thiamine is water-soluble. That means that it dissolves in water and isn’t stored in your body, so you need to consume it on a regular basis. In fact, your body can only store around 20 days’ worth of thiamine at any given time (2Trusted Source)." -
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@yerrag said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
banana bags
you mean for thiamine iv infusion?
Yes. There's a good article at that link.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I'm very hopeful that you will be able to fully recover. Or at least achieve tremendous improvement.
I am very confident of this as well.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I had ataxic gait fall of 2020; I kept bouncing off the walls. I also developed a tremor in my right hand. But these resolved via high dose thiamine hcl. When I got so sick, I was taking thiamine hcl, 100mg, 2Xday, but I took it with orange juice (oops). Many of the patient Before Treatment videos show people having a hard time walking, so the Ataxic Gait seems to be a tell tale sign.
I just learned of the term "gait ataxia" or "ataxic gait.." Is this your first time to hear the term as well? Seems like had I know of this term earlier, I would not refer to it as "a symptoms of parkinson's" or "myasthenia gravis." As it would be easier to see it associated with beriberi and to vitamin b1 deficiency.
I learned about "ataxic gait" in 2020 when it was happening to me. Dr. Chandler Marrs has a video where she talks about the deterioration of her mother's health; maybe that's what made me really understand it.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
It seems that all of the thiamine experts that I have relied on are clinicians; they all have had hands on experience treating actual patients rather than only being off in some laboratory working with test tubes and computers. There's tons of good research you can find on line about thiamine, but expensive double blind studies are scarce because no one can patent thiamine.
Very true! This is where the practitioners of "evidence-based" scientism lord it over clinicians all the time. Sad that a majority worship at the temple of scientism. The irony is that the more "educated" one is the more he relies less on other measures of evidence that includes observation and perceiving and thinking. And rely on curated google searches and wikipedia as their research.
I hate Wikipedia; at best it's the consensus of the brainwashed.
The problem with "evidence based" scientism is that the ones in control (medical industrial complex + "science" post Project Paperclip) demand empirical double blind human studies for the "gold standard" of proof. The only entities that can afford to do that type of study are the pharmaceutical companies for things that they can patent to make big bucks on. The system is broken.
Why we are in this forum is to sidestep that illusion, yet many people here still trust google as the final arbiter.
Searching for good studies online is time consuming; the ones they want you to find are at the top; the better ones are buried further down. Using "quotation marks" around key words can shorten the search.
I'm just as glad as you are that we used this forum to confirm each other's experiencing gait ataxia and if I can confirm megadosing b1 is effective, it strengthens our "clinician" equivalent approach to the other "evidence-based' approach. If this forum can do more of this kind of discovery, it would become far more helpful and useful than other forums.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
Elliot Overton counsels clients in nutrition. He has a lot of good videos about thiamine.
Dr. Chandler Marrs treats patients at her clinic.
Dr. Derrick Lonsdale was a pediatrician at the Cleveland Clinic. He's retired now, is over 100 years old, takes TTFD daily, and still responds to questions in the Comments (below the articles) at hormonesmatter.com.
Dr. Costantini (died 2020), treated thousands of Parkinson's Disease patients successfully in Italy with thiamine hcl.
I have to find more time to view/read those links you shared earlier. Thanks a lot!
You're welcome.
There's an enormous amount of information on line about thiamine. It seems modern science cannot keep it hidden so well. For example, if you try to search for Thiamine and Cancer, the first studies that show are the ones about oncologists saying thiamine can cancel out the effect of their chemotherapy drugs so thiamine's bad. But further down the screen, you will find helpful research that includes info about low dose thiamine being carcinogenic but high dose thiamine is anti-carcinogenic. There's also a broad range between the low dose and the high dose that is neither carcinogenic nor anti-carcinogenic.
What serendipity, CMJ has an article on hi-dose supplementation on what to look out for in implementing hi-dose b1 supplementation. It's free for a day on substack. I wonder what's the best way to save it for my use. Perhaps print to PDF;
BTW, On the third day of 1500mg b1, I saw my overnight O²Ring chart go from a score of 7.5 to 9.3, indicating lower frequency in spO2 drops, and lower levels of drops in magnitude, which had been ongoing as far back as 3 years ago, when I began tracking it.
I also saw my ECG's QRS curve increase in height signifying strong electrical voltage restored in pumping my heart, which I track to ascertain how much free my lungs was free from liquid (pleural effusion). My QTc value , a proxy marker for testing for hypothyroidism Ray has talked about, has improved from 440 msec to 385, pushing me towards hyper to normo-thyroid territory.
Still waiting for my gait ataxia to disappear.
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@mostlylurking oh okay, then I need to find a different explanation for the waning levels.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3659035/ says it's stored for up to 18 days which is obviously a much smaller time period than I described.
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@yerrag said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@yerrag said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
banana bags
you mean for thiamine iv infusion?
Yes. There's a good article at that link.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I'm very hopeful that you will be able to fully recover. Or at least achieve tremendous improvement.
I am very confident of this as well.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I had ataxic gait fall of 2020; I kept bouncing off the walls. I also developed a tremor in my right hand. But these resolved via high dose thiamine hcl. When I got so sick, I was taking thiamine hcl, 100mg, 2Xday, but I took it with orange juice (oops). Many of the patient Before Treatment videos show people having a hard time walking, so the Ataxic Gait seems to be a tell tale sign.
I just learned of the term "gait ataxia" or "ataxic gait.." Is this your first time to hear the term as well? Seems like had I know of this term earlier, I would not refer to it as "a symptoms of parkinson's" or "myasthenia gravis." As it would be easier to see it associated with beriberi and to vitamin b1 deficiency.
I learned about "ataxic gait" in 2020 when it was happening to me. Dr. Chandler Marrs has a video where she talks about the deterioration of her mother's health; maybe that's what made me really understand it.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
It seems that all of the thiamine experts that I have relied on are clinicians; they all have had hands on experience treating actual patients rather than only being off in some laboratory working with test tubes and computers. There's tons of good research you can find on line about thiamine, but expensive double blind studies are scarce because no one can patent thiamine.
Very true! This is where the practitioners of "evidence-based" scientism lord it over clinicians all the time. Sad that a majority worship at the temple of scientism. The irony is that the more "educated" one is the more he relies less on other measures of evidence that includes observation and perceiving and thinking. And rely on curated google searches and wikipedia as their research.
I hate Wikipedia; at best it's the consensus of the brainwashed.
The problem with "evidence based" scientism is that the ones in control (medical industrial complex + "science" post Project Paperclip) demand empirical double blind human studies for the "gold standard" of proof. The only entities that can afford to do that type of study are the pharmaceutical companies for things that they can patent to make big bucks on. The system is broken.
Why we are in this forum is to sidestep that illusion, yet many people here still trust google as the final arbiter.
Searching for good studies online is time consuming; the ones they want you to find are at the top; the better ones are buried further down. Using "quotation marks" around key words can shorten the search.
I'm just as glad as you are that we used this forum to confirm each other's experiencing gait ataxia and if I can confirm megadosing b1 is effective, it strengthens our "clinician" equivalent approach to the other "evidence-based' approach. If this forum can do more of this kind of discovery, it would become far more helpful and useful than other forums.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
Elliot Overton counsels clients in nutrition. He has a lot of good videos about thiamine.
Dr. Chandler Marrs treats patients at her clinic.
Dr. Derrick Lonsdale was a pediatrician at the Cleveland Clinic. He's retired now, is over 100 years old, takes TTFD daily, and still responds to questions in the Comments (below the articles) at hormonesmatter.com.
Dr. Costantini (died 2020), treated thousands of Parkinson's Disease patients successfully in Italy with thiamine hcl.
I have to find more time to view/read those links you shared earlier. Thanks a lot!
You're welcome.
There's an enormous amount of information on line about thiamine. It seems modern science cannot keep it hidden so well. For example, if you try to search for Thiamine and Cancer, the first studies that show are the ones about oncologists saying thiamine can cancel out the effect of their chemotherapy drugs so thiamine's bad. But further down the screen, you will find helpful research that includes info about low dose thiamine being carcinogenic but high dose thiamine is anti-carcinogenic. There's also a broad range between the low dose and the high dose that is neither carcinogenic nor anti-carcinogenic.
What serendipity, CMJ has an article on hi-dose supplementation on what to look out for in implementing hi-dose b1 supplementation. It's free for a day on substack. I wonder what's the best way to save it for my use. Perhaps print to PDF;
I went over to CMJ's site and read his article. There's quite a bit in it that made me scratch my head in wonder/confusion.
It seems to me that CMJ is confusing reactions to TTFD as being reactions to thiamine in general, which is simply not the case. For example, CMJ says in the article:
"Excessive thiamine supplementation would not be expected to directly interfere with the absorption of other nutrients, but it could puts stress on four metabolic pathways that either creates an imbalance with other nutrients or worsens a genetic impairment, and it probably generates sulfite within the human body. Sulfite is toxic, accelerates glutamate excitation of and damage to nerves, can degranulate mast cells and cause pseudo-allergies, and the process of generating and detoxifying sulfite puts stress on the requirements for coenzyme Q10, glutathione, molybdenum, and copper."
Right off the bat, I glommed onto "puts stress on the requirements for...gluathione.... TTFD uses glutathione, whereas thiamine hcl does not. In fact, by massively reducing my level of oxidative stress, taking high dose thiamine hcl allowed my low glutathione level to rise to the "normal" range which was proven via blood testing. My glutathione level had been in the ditch for decades.
Also, I've been intensely sensitive to sulfites for many years; I have not had any negative reaction to thiamine hcl. It is my understanding that thiamine hcl includes a sulfur component that mercury is attracted to. "Sulfur" does not equal "sulfite"; your body needs sulfur.
Distinction Between Sulfide and Sulfite There's a short video included about sulfites.
It makes sense that if you improve your body's function in a meaningful way, whether it's by thyroid supplementation or by thiamine supplementation, other nutrients/vitamins/minerals will get used more and possibly result in new deficiencies. Please note that it is known that high dosing thiamine will cause the body to use up more magnesium and potassium and will probably cause the body to need more niacin and riboflavin. I take 3100mg magnesium glycinate (=400mg magnesium) per day, 100mg niacinamide, 4Xday, and 100mg riboflavin, 4Xday; I rely on drinking orange juice for my potassium. I also experienced a problem with my electrolyte balance after high dosing thiamine hcl for several weeks; I recovered when I increased my salt intake.
BTW, On the third day of 1500mg b1, I saw my overnight O²Ring chart go from a score of 7.5 to 9.3, indicating lower frequency in spO2 drops, and lower levels of drops in magnitude, which had been ongoing as far back as 3 years ago, when I began tracking it.
That's a good thing, right?
I also saw my ECG's QRS curve increase in height signifying strong electrical voltage restored in pumping my heart, which I track to ascertain how much free my lungs was free from liquid (pleural effusion). My QTc value , a proxy marker for testing for hypothyroidism Ray has talked about, has improved from 440 msec to 385, pushing me towards hyper to normo-thyroid territory.
The stronger electrical voltage restoring your heart's ability to pump is good news, yes?
I also experienced improvement in my thyroid function when I began high dosing thiamine hcl. The thyroid, like every other part of the body, needs thiamine to make ATP so it can do its job. I got into a little trouble with my T3 getting out of range on the high side so my endocrinologist lowered my prescription desiccated thyroid medication. He explained to me that I had become "hyperthyroid" and hyperthyroidism causes thiamine deficiency. I recovered quickly and my thyroid med and my thiamine hcl supplementation are working well together now.
Still waiting for my gait ataxia to disappear.
Everybody is different. Different symptoms will take longer to resolve than others. I experienced noticeable improvements over a period of 6 months. Then noticeable improvements leveled off/stabilized.
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@API-Beast said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking oh okay, then I need to find a different explanation for the waning levels.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3659035/ says it's stored for up to 18 days which is obviously a much smaller time period than I described.
Which "waning levels"? Are you noticing the return of symptoms while still supplementing with a consistent amount of thiamine? Or is your thiamine supplementation not consistent?
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@yerrag said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@yerrag said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
banana bags
you mean for thiamine iv infusion?
Yes. There's a good article at that link.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I'm very hopeful that you will be able to fully recover. Or at least achieve tremendous improvement.
I am very confident of this as well.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I had ataxic gait fall of 2020; I kept bouncing off the walls. I also developed a tremor in my right hand. But these resolved via high dose thiamine hcl. When I got so sick, I was taking thiamine hcl, 100mg, 2Xday, but I took it with orange juice (oops). Many of the patient Before Treatment videos show people having a hard time walking, so the Ataxic Gait seems to be a tell tale sign.
I just learned of the term "gait ataxia" or "ataxic gait.." Is this your first time to hear the term as well? Seems like had I know of this term earlier, I would not refer to it as "a symptoms of parkinson's" or "myasthenia gravis." As it would be easier to see it associated with beriberi and to vitamin b1 deficiency.
I learned about "ataxic gait" in 2020 when it was happening to me. Dr. Chandler Marrs has a video where she talks about the deterioration of her mother's health; maybe that's what made me really understand it.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
It seems that all of the thiamine experts that I have relied on are clinicians; they all have had hands on experience treating actual patients rather than only being off in some laboratory working with test tubes and computers. There's tons of good research you can find on line about thiamine, but expensive double blind studies are scarce because no one can patent thiamine.
Very true! This is where the practitioners of "evidence-based" scientism lord it over clinicians all the time. Sad that a majority worship at the temple of scientism. The irony is that the more "educated" one is the more he relies less on other measures of evidence that includes observation and perceiving and thinking. And rely on curated google searches and wikipedia as their research.
I hate Wikipedia; at best it's the consensus of the brainwashed.
The problem with "evidence based" scientism is that the ones in control (medical industrial complex + "science" post Project Paperclip) demand empirical double blind human studies for the "gold standard" of proof. The only entities that can afford to do that type of study are the pharmaceutical companies for things that they can patent to make big bucks on. The system is broken.
Why we are in this forum is to sidestep that illusion, yet many people here still trust google as the final arbiter.
Searching for good studies online is time consuming; the ones they want you to find are at the top; the better ones are buried further down. Using "quotation marks" around key words can shorten the search.
I'm just as glad as you are that we used this forum to confirm each other's experiencing gait ataxia and if I can confirm megadosing b1 is effective, it strengthens our "clinician" equivalent approach to the other "evidence-based' approach. If this forum can do more of this kind of discovery, it would become far more helpful and useful than other forums.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
Elliot Overton counsels clients in nutrition. He has a lot of good videos about thiamine.
Dr. Chandler Marrs treats patients at her clinic.
Dr. Derrick Lonsdale was a pediatrician at the Cleveland Clinic. He's retired now, is over 100 years old, takes TTFD daily, and still responds to questions in the Comments (below the articles) at hormonesmatter.com.
Dr. Costantini (died 2020), treated thousands of Parkinson's Disease patients successfully in Italy with thiamine hcl.
I have to find more time to view/read those links you shared earlier. Thanks a lot!
You're welcome.
There's an enormous amount of information on line about thiamine. It seems modern science cannot keep it hidden so well. For example, if you try to search for Thiamine and Cancer, the first studies that show are the ones about oncologists saying thiamine can cancel out the effect of their chemotherapy drugs so thiamine's bad. But further down the screen, you will find helpful research that includes info about low dose thiamine being carcinogenic but high dose thiamine is anti-carcinogenic. There's also a broad range between the low dose and the high dose that is neither carcinogenic nor anti-carcinogenic.
What serendipity, CMJ has an article on hi-dose supplementation on what to look out for in implementing hi-dose b1 supplementation. It's free for a day on substack. I wonder what's the best way to save it for my use. Perhaps print to PDF;
BTW, On the third day of 1500mg b1, I saw my overnight O²Ring chart go from a score of 7.5 to 9.3, indicating lower frequency in spO2 drops, and lower levels of drops in magnitude, which had been ongoing as far back as 3 years ago, when I began tracking it.
I also saw my ECG's QRS curve increase in height signifying strong electrical voltage restored in pumping my heart, which I track to ascertain how much free my lungs was free from liquid (pleural effusion). My QTc value , a proxy marker for testing for hypothyroidism Ray has talked about, has improved from 440 msec to 385, pushing me towards hyper to normo-thyroid territory.
Still waiting for my gait ataxia to disappear.
More about the CMJ's article about thiamine:
He writes:
"Dr. Derrick Lonsdale writes in the book he authored with Chandler Marrs, Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High-Calorie Malnutrition that every case he saw of a “paradoxical” reaction to thiamin was self-resolving, with benefit arising after the initial hump of difficulty. My experience from a different and broader context suggests that there are many people who get adverse reactions that do not end until thiamin supplementation is stopped rather than these self-resolving paradoxical reactions."Please note that "paradoxical reactions" to thiamine discussed by Dr. Lonsdale are specifically about TTFD thiamine. In contrast, Dr. Costantini, who used thiamine hcl exclusively for treating his patients said that there should be NO negative reactions to taking thiamine hcl. He did say that rarely a patient would experience a negative reaction to it; his solution was to stop the thiamine for a week, then invite the patient to resume the treatment at half the dose.
Please note that TTFD thiamine is a synthetic newer version of thiamine that does have some advantages. It is easily absorbed in the gut so the size of the dose is much smaller than the oral dose needed for thiamine hcl. TTFD is also supposed to "get into the cell" much easier than thiamine hcl which may be an advantage for some people with genetic variations that make thiamine absorption on the cellular level less effective/blocked. TTFD doesn't have the "transport" issues that thiamine hcl might have for some people? Lonsdale, Marrs, and Overton know a lot more about TTFD than I do and all three seem to prefer recommending TTFD. Elliot Overton is affiliated with the company that makes Thiamax TTFD. He has stated that if you find a type of thiamine that works well for you that you should stick with that type.
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@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@API-Beast said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking oh okay, then I need to find a different explanation for the waning levels.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3659035/ says it's stored for up to 18 days which is obviously a much smaller time period than I described.
Which "waning levels"? Are you noticing the return of symptoms while still supplementing with a consistent amount of thiamine? Or is your thiamine supplementation not consistent?
No, no, the up and downs the years/decades before I started supplementing. I just like to have a working model of what is happening inside my body that explains previous experiences.
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@API-Beast said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@API-Beast said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking oh okay, then I need to find a different explanation for the waning levels.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3659035/ says it's stored for up to 18 days which is obviously a much smaller time period than I described.
Which "waning levels"? Are you noticing the return of symptoms while still supplementing with a consistent amount of thiamine? Or is your thiamine supplementation not consistent?
No, no, the up and downs the years/decades before I started supplementing. I just like to have a working model of what is happening inside my body that explains previous experiences.
I'll try to tell part of my story; maybe you can extrapolate some ideas from it.
When I was a child (I'm 74 now), the dentist put 8 amalgam fillings into my teeth. I got them removed the dangerous way when I was in my twenties. This history resulted in chronic mercury poisoning which caused life long high oxidative stress. My body had all it could handle so anytime I got a little bit of stress put on top of that load, I'd get really sick. It took me 3 years to fully recover from childbirth. I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism at age 28.
When I was 42, I was exposed to fire ant poison (organo-phosphate insecticide) at work, along with 25 other people. Nobody else but me got sick; I nearly died. It took 3 years to recover with the help of a very good doctor who knew enough to detox me to lower the load on my immune system so my body could recover. But he could not remove the mercury. So my oxidative stress level remained high.
From age 45-65, I suffered multiple periods of sickness. These events were pretty severe and usually included being told I had heavy metal poisoning. It seemed my immune system was maxed out and I struggled with: hypothyroidism; many many food allergies/ chemical sensitivities; leaky gut, SIBO, low stomach acid, poor esophogeal peristalses, etc.
At age 65 I was stricken with rheumatoid arthritis. I addressed my hypothyroidism with a good endo who wound up doubling my dose of desiccated thyroid to 180mg/day. The RA went into full remission.
In 2020, at age 70, I took a round of Bactrim antibiotic for a UTI. The Bactrim nearly killed me. But this was when I figured out that I had a long term ongoing problem with low thiamine status that was caused by the high oxidative stress that was/is caused by the mercury poisoning caused by my childhood mercury amalgams.
I've been taking high dose thiamine hcl for the past 3 years and remain healthy. Even my thyroid function has improved; my thyroid medication had to be lowered a few weeks after starting taking higher doses of thiamine hcl because I had become hyperthyroid.
If you can delve deeply into your health history, perhaps you will uncover why you have periods of illness. The immune system can only deal with so much. When the body is overwhelmed with oxidative stress, caused by some mystery toxin from years gone by, illness happens. Detoxing the toxin is a great idea. Mercury cannot be safely detoxed; but lowering the oxidative stress via thiamine and magnesium has been extremely helpful. It's given me my life back.
Illness is caused by poor oxidative metabolism. Two major things that interfere with oxidative metabolism are hypothyroidism and thiamine deficiency. Hypothyroidism can be caused by thiamine deficiency. Oxidative stress depletes thiamine. High dosing thiamine resolves oxidative stress. But it does not remove the mercury toxicity from the body.
Things that are tied to oxidative stress:
The impact of oxidative stress in thiamine deficiency: A multifactorial targeting issue
Interactions of oxidative stress with thiamine homeostasis promote neurodegeneration
The importance of thiamine (vitamin B1) in humans
Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited
I hope you find this helpful.
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@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@yerrag said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@yerrag said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
banana bags
you mean for thiamine iv infusion?
Yes. There's a good article at that link.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I'm very hopeful that you will be able to fully recover. Or at least achieve tremendous improvement.
I am very confident of this as well.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I had ataxic gait fall of 2020; I kept bouncing off the walls. I also developed a tremor in my right hand. But these resolved via high dose thiamine hcl. When I got so sick, I was taking thiamine hcl, 100mg, 2Xday, but I took it with orange juice (oops). Many of the patient Before Treatment videos show people having a hard time walking, so the Ataxic Gait seems to be a tell tale sign.
I just learned of the term "gait ataxia" or "ataxic gait.." Is this your first time to hear the term as well? Seems like had I know of this term earlier, I would not refer to it as "a symptoms of parkinson's" or "myasthenia gravis." As it would be easier to see it associated with beriberi and to vitamin b1 deficiency.
I learned about "ataxic gait" in 2020 when it was happening to me. Dr. Chandler Marrs has a video where she talks about the deterioration of her mother's health; maybe that's what made me really understand it.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
It seems that all of the thiamine experts that I have relied on are clinicians; they all have had hands on experience treating actual patients rather than only being off in some laboratory working with test tubes and computers. There's tons of good research you can find on line about thiamine, but expensive double blind studies are scarce because no one can patent thiamine.
Very true! This is where the practitioners of "evidence-based" scientism lord it over clinicians all the time. Sad that a majority worship at the temple of scientism. The irony is that the more "educated" one is the more he relies less on other measures of evidence that includes observation and perceiving and thinking. And rely on curated google searches and wikipedia as their research.
I hate Wikipedia; at best it's the consensus of the brainwashed.
The problem with "evidence based" scientism is that the ones in control (medical industrial complex + "science" post Project Paperclip) demand empirical double blind human studies for the "gold standard" of proof. The only entities that can afford to do that type of study are the pharmaceutical companies for things that they can patent to make big bucks on. The system is broken.
Why we are in this forum is to sidestep that illusion, yet many people here still trust google as the final arbiter.
Searching for good studies online is time consuming; the ones they want you to find are at the top; the better ones are buried further down. Using "quotation marks" around key words can shorten the search.
I'm just as glad as you are that we used this forum to confirm each other's experiencing gait ataxia and if I can confirm megadosing b1 is effective, it strengthens our "clinician" equivalent approach to the other "evidence-based' approach. If this forum can do more of this kind of discovery, it would become far more helpful and useful than other forums.
@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
Elliot Overton counsels clients in nutrition. He has a lot of good videos about thiamine.
Dr. Chandler Marrs treats patients at her clinic.
Dr. Derrick Lonsdale was a pediatrician at the Cleveland Clinic. He's retired now, is over 100 years old, takes TTFD daily, and still responds to questions in the Comments (below the articles) at hormonesmatter.com.
Dr. Costantini (died 2020), treated thousands of Parkinson's Disease patients successfully in Italy with thiamine hcl.
I have to find more time to view/read those links you shared earlier. Thanks a lot!
You're welcome.
There's an enormous amount of information on line about thiamine. It seems modern science cannot keep it hidden so well. For example, if you try to search for Thiamine and Cancer, the first studies that show are the ones about oncologists saying thiamine can cancel out the effect of their chemotherapy drugs so thiamine's bad. But further down the screen, you will find helpful research that includes info about low dose thiamine being carcinogenic but high dose thiamine is anti-carcinogenic. There's also a broad range between the low dose and the high dose that is neither carcinogenic nor anti-carcinogenic.
What serendipity, CMJ has an article on hi-dose supplementation on what to look out for in implementing hi-dose b1 supplementation. It's free for a day on substack. I wonder what's the best way to save it for my use. Perhaps print to PDF;
BTW, On the third day of 1500mg b1, I saw my overnight O²Ring chart go from a score of 7.5 to 9.3, indicating lower frequency in spO2 drops, and lower levels of drops in magnitude, which had been ongoing as far back as 3 years ago, when I began tracking it.
I also saw my ECG's QRS curve increase in height signifying strong electrical voltage restored in pumping my heart, which I track to ascertain how much free my lungs was free from liquid (pleural effusion). My QTc value , a proxy marker for testing for hypothyroidism Ray has talked about, has improved from 440 msec to 385, pushing me towards hyper to normo-thyroid territory.
Still waiting for my gait ataxia to disappear.
More about the CMJ's article about thiamine:
He writes:
"Dr. Derrick Lonsdale writes in the book he authored with Chandler Marrs, Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High-Calorie Malnutrition that every case he saw of a “paradoxical” reaction to thiamin was self-resolving, with benefit arising after the initial hump of difficulty. My experience from a different and broader context suggests that there are many people who get adverse reactions that do not end until thiamin supplementation is stopped rather than these self-resolving paradoxical reactions."Please note that "paradoxical reactions" to thiamine discussed by Dr. Lonsdale are specifically about TTFD thiamine. In contrast, Dr. Costantini, who used thiamine hcl exclusively for treating his patients said that there should be NO negative reactions to taking thiamine hcl. He did say that rarely a patient would experience a negative reaction to it; his solution was to stop the thiamine for a week, then invite the patient to resume the treatment at half the dose.
Please note that TTFD thiamine is a synthetic newer version of thiamine that does have some advantages. It is easily absorbed in the gut so the size of the dose is much smaller than the oral dose needed for thiamine hcl. TTFD is also supposed to "get into the cell" much easier than thiamine hcl which may be an advantage for some people with genetic variations that make thiamine absorption on the cellular level less effective/blocked. TTFD doesn't have the "transport" issues that thiamine hcl might have for some people? Lonsdale, Marrs, and Overton know a lot more about TTFD than I do and all three seem to prefer recommending TTFD. Elliot Overton is affiliated with the company that makes Thiamax TTFD. He has stated that if you find a type of thiamine that works well for you that you should stick with that type.
Yes. I suspect that the higher thiamine dosage gave my phagocytes enough ROS to kill pathogenic bacteria as well as swallow sequestered lead for eventual excretion out the system. It potentiated my immune system enough to make toxins and pathogenic microbes.
As these toxins and pathogens are killed and excreted, they no longer have the staying power and with each day their numbers are reduced, and my immune system would be using less and leas oxygen to make ROS. So the spO² drops would be less and less over time and hopefully they will be gone.
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@yerrag said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
Yes. I suspect that the higher thiamine dosage gave my phagocytes enough ROS to kill pathogenic bacteria as well as swallow sequestered lead for eventual excretion out the system. It potentiated my immune system enough to make toxins and pathogenic microbes.
As these toxins and pathogens are killed and excreted, they no longer have the staying power and with each day their numbers are reduced, and my immune system would be using less and leas oxygen to make ROS. So the spO² drops would be less and less over time and hopefully they will be gone.
There are two articles over at hormonesmatter.com that go into ROS and oxidative stress that you might find of interest.
EMF Hypersensitivity and Thiamine
and
Trehalose for Autism?also there's this one you may find of interest:
It All Comes Down to Energy
from the Comments:
https://www.hormonesmatter.com/energy-thiamine/#comment-260045Hi Dr Lonsdale,
You write:
“It has long been known that patients with beriberi had a low arterial oxygen and a high venous oxygen saturation. All that would be needed to support the hypothesis of thiamine deficiency in some Covid victims would be finding a high venous oxygen saturation at the same time as a low arterial saturation.”I’m a little confused by this. Since the venous blood is simply the returned arterial blood, how could the oxygen concentration go from low in the arterial blood to high in the venous blood? This would seem to imply that oxygen is somehow added to the blood out in the body somewhere. Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that the indication of beriberi is either high venous oxygen, or no decrease between the arterial and venous if the arterial blood oxygen was low, resulting from a lack of oxygen uptake by the body’s cells? This seems to be borne out by these articles which diagnose beriberi from high venous oxygen with no mention of arterial concentration:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5674760/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3845955/I would appreciate your clarification. I’m interested in this because I am looking into whether there is any evidence of this sort linking beriberi with Covid (and/or ME/CFS) in support of your hypothesis.
Robert
Dr. Lonsdale's reply:
The “low” arterial oxygen and “high” venous O2 are the opposite of what they should be. High arterial O2 and low venous O2 means that the blood is not picking up O2 at the lung and not unloading it at the tissues. It represents an unknown non enzymatic action of thiamine."
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@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
There are two articles over at hormonesmatter.com that go into ROS and oxidative stress that you might find of interest.
EMF Hypersensitivity and Thiamine
and
Trehalose for Autism?They're great reading. Thanks!
Last year, two koi died in my pond within 2 weeks of my putting a wireless router whose signals went thru the pond. The router was placed high enough there is a line of sights from it to the pond surface and to part of its bottom. I care for my koi very well, and they just don't die for no reason. When I was early into koi keeping, I learned many lessons as I had high casualties in my learning curve, and I've made many improvements over time ranging from what food to feed (that most koi keepers don't know about) to filter design to how I clean the pond to make koi keeping enjoyable and not laborious and stressful and a time hole. So I got good enough that my koi no longer die so often, and years pass before one dies. So it isn't hard for me to connect their deaths to the wifi signal I imposed on them.
I proceeded to move my WiFi router low enough such that its line of sight would to the pond surface and below would be impeded by the 6" concrete walls of the mixed grade (pond bottom being below ground level and pond surface being above ground level) pond. The pond is once again a safe haven for my koi.
That was also a lesson for me. I took heed of this and installed an automatic timer that would automatically turn off my router between 10 pm and 6 am as I slept. At least my exposure was minimized by a third, although time and cost constraints keep me from converting the home to all-Ethernet. Still, being in a house is multiple time safer than living in an apartment or condo building where many WiFi signals are always present, plus telco wireless transmissions.
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@mostlylurking said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
There are two articles over at hormonesmatter.com that go into ROS and oxidative stress that you might find of interest.
EMF Hypersensitivity and Thiamine
and
Trehalose for Autism?They're great reading. Thanks!
Last year, two koi died in my pond within 2 weeks of my putting a wireless router whose signals went thru the pond. The router was placed high enough there is a line of sights from it to the pond surface and to part of its bottom. I care for my koi very well, and they just don't die for no reason. When I was early into koi keeping, I learned many lessons as I had high casualties in my learning curve, and I've made many improvements over time ranging from what food to feed (that most koi keepers don't know about) to filter design to how I clean the pond to make koi keeping enjoyable and not laborious and stressful and a time hole. So I got good enough that my koi no longer die so often, and years pass before one dies. So it isn't hard for me to connect their deaths to the wifi signal I imposed on them.
I proceeded to move my WiFi router low enough such that its line of sight would to the pond surface and below would be impeded by the 6" concrete walls of the mixed grade (pond bottom being below ground level and pond surface being above ground level) pond. The pond is once again a safe haven for my koi.
That was also a lesson for me. I took heed of this and installed an automatic timer that would automatically turn off my router between 10 pm and 6 am as I slept. At least my exposure was minimized by a third, although time and cost constraints keep me from converting the home to all-Ethernet. Still, being in a house is multiple time safer than living in an apartment or condo building where many WiFi signals are always present, plus telco wireless transmissions. Not to mention the worse situation in condos and apartment buildings on strong 24x7 emf exposure to WiFi and telco wireless signals.
On trehalose, I couldn't help but chuckle how people are so enamored of expedient solutions that almost always don't work. The marketing of magic bullets not just in media but also in schools and institutions such as the medical schools of the Ivy League and of the catholic and Protestant universities have produced a population that is constantly diseased on their own cognizance and will. Indeed, disease is what makes the world go around and we are busy finding solutions for problems we ourselves sow.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
I read that long term high dose Thiamine will mess you up/ ruin you and should only be used strategically.
There is no free lunch, guys. -
@GreekDemiGod said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
I read that long term high dose Thiamine will mess you up/ ruin you and should only be used strategically.
There is no free lunch, guys.My own option (which I take full responsibility for) is to high dose thiamine or to be incapacitated via my mercury poisoning. I choose the high dose thiamine. I'm 74. I got to spend my morning digging perennials up to move them around in my garden. This opens a space so I can dig a really big hole and move a rose about 3 feet north so that my husband's view of the bird bath is less obstructed by the rose.
Long term high dose thiamine most likely does deplete other vitamins and minerals. Research should be done, due diligence should be practiced and personal decisions made. Keep in mind, nobody gets out of here alive.
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@yerrag said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
They're great reading. Thanks!
Last year, two koi died in my pond within 2 weeks of my putting a wireless router whose signals went thru the pond. The router was placed high enough there is a line of sights from it to the pond surface and to part of its bottom. I care for my koi very well, and they just don't die for no reason. When I was early into koi keeping, I learned many lessons as I had high casualties in my learning curve, and I've made many improvements over time ranging from what food to feed (that most koi keepers don't know about) to filter design to how I clean the pond to make koi keeping enjoyable and not laborious and stressful and a time hole. So I got good enough that my koi no longer die so often, and years pass before one dies. So it isn't hard for me to connect their deaths to the wifi signal I imposed on them.
I proceeded to move my WiFi router low enough such that its line of sight would to the pond surface and below would be impeded by the 6" concrete walls of the mixed grade (pond bottom being below ground level and pond surface being above ground level) pond. The pond is once again a safe haven for my koi.
Koi are really nice. I've never had any but my neighbor down the street made a pond with a little spillway to a smaller pond with a recirculating pump and lilypads and landscaping, the works. The koi were so happy! The raccoons thought they were delicious.
I'm out in the country on 22 acres, 5 miles from the closest little town (population 10,000). I can see one house from my property, but there are others on similarly sized tracts nearby. I've got everything hardwired (ethernet) except for my husband's cell phone. He gets great phone reception here and when people come over with their laptops, they work just fine. WiFi is everywhere now, I think. Sob.
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@yerrag said in Just found out I have reactive hypoglycemia. What now?:
On trehalose, I couldn't help but chuckle how people are so enamored of expedient solutions that almost always don't work. The marketing of magic bullets not just in media but also in schools and institutions such as the medical schools of the Ivy League and of the catholic and Protestant universities have produced a population that is constantly diseased on their own cognizance and will. Indeed, disease is what makes the world go around and we are busy finding solutions for problems we ourselves sow.
We're doomed, I tell you. Doomed. Those Ivy League schools are the worst. They do something to people's brains so they can no longer access the place in their brains where common sense is stored.
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@mostlylurking
Thank God I was dumb enough to not be worthy of even applying to MIT, which was a dream for me looking up to my uncle who went there on scholarship and made himself a name. He would later on die young following his doctor who absolutely forbade him to take any salt for many many years. He was smart as an engineer but brainwashed by the AMA as most Ivy Leaguers are who believed in the science behind the COVID Hoax.
