11KT - 11-keto-Testosterone

Mauritio

@engineer any noticeable effects?

engineer

@Mauritio None yet since I only put on the 1mL 30 minutes ago but I will do an additional 0.5mL tonight and continue that for a few days.

engineer

You know what, I'm going to go scorched earth and do 2mL to increase the probability of feeling something and it would match the cost of 40mg 6kp4 too.

Mauritio

@engineer im surprised that you don't feel anything even at that dose, which is very high in peats world.

engineer

@Mauritio about an hour later I did feel more energy, like it's thermogenic, and I was able to do judo rounds for a while even without drinking juice (I didn't bring enough). So, it seems like it should be similar to regular T if it also increases metabolism. But for something like muscle growth that will be hard to judge.

engineer

Update: This morning I put 1mL around my collarbone as reported elsewhere as a good place. BIG mistake. My shirt seems to be absorbing a little bit, and it's not clear how much. As insurance against absorption I also put 0.5mL on my arms and will only use that location now.

wester130

has anyone tried this?

i think the same company make it,

https://www.predatornutrition.com/prohormones/alpha-gainz/1-andro-td.html

engineer

@wester130 This is actually the same as Idealabs Androsterone so whatever people report for that would apply to this too. In other words, a strong AI with mild androgenic effects that isn't anabolic.

engineer

I was wondering how androgenic 11 keto T was compared to standard T, and this study summarized exactly that:

It's almost identical to T in potency.

"The high androgenic activity of the various metabolites (Table 1) as well as their relatively high concentrations in circulation was the reason why they have been the subject of much interest along with the classic androgens, especially testosterone. It has been observed that in control groups of healthy individuals the levels of 11-keto-testosterone can be double the levels of testosterone. Concentrations of almost all 11-oxygenated C19-steroids have been found to be up to three times higher in patients with adrenal hyperplasia due to 21-hydroxylase deficiency compared to controls (Table 2) (Turcu et al. 2016, Storbeck et al. 2019). In addition, girls were shown to have more than doubled levels of 11-keto-testosterone compared to testosterone throughout the period of adrenarche (Fig. 2)."

"When testosterone levels are followed for diagnostic or monitoring reasons, it seems reasonable to also measure levels of androgens of adrenal origin, especially 11-keto-testosterone and 11-keto-dihydrotestosterone (Dušková et al. 2018). This is particularly true in cases of enzyme disorders with androgenization (Turcu et al. 2016, Turcu et al. 2017, Storbeck et al. 2019). In congenital adrenal hyperplasia due to 21-hydroxylase deficiency, levels of 11-keto-testosterone are on average three-times higher than in controls, while in contrast low levels are expected in 11β-hydroxylase deficiencies, i.e. in CAH with hypertension. Following 11-keto-testosterone level can be useful in interpretation the significant androgenization of the skin and normal or only non-significantly increased testosterone level that occurs oft in the most common female endocrine disorder – polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) (O’Reily et al. 2017, Yoshida et al. 2018). No evidence of the 11β-hydroxylation of androstenedione has been found in granulosa cells from the ovaries of women with PCOS (Owen et al. 1982), though another study indicated that 11-keto-testosterone is produced in the gonads (Imamichi et al. 2016). Higher adrenal activity in women with PCOS has been repeatedly observed (Turcu and Auchus 2017), but the concentrations of 11-oxygenated C19-steroids cannot be regarded as a marker for this syndrome. In some milder cases of female androgenization, for instance idiopathic hirsutism, the determination of 11-keto-testosterone and 11-keto-dihydrotestosterone could also help explain the conflict between the intensity of clinical features and the levels of testosterone or dihydrotestosterone."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8603739/

So, it appears as though 11 keto T may be present in significant amounts, maybe even more than regular T, but current testing doesn't detect it. This would be a bombshell explanation for why some people have comically low T in testing (Jeffrey Epstein) but don't exhibit the symptoms of low T.

Mauritio

@engineer
Great points !! Ive seen this study before but haven't made those connections.

Might explain why on my idealabs test results:
T=5 and 11keto-T= 34 (pg/ml?).

So how much is it worth even testing your T when you don't know your 11keto-T? Same for DHT and 11keto-DHT.

engineer

@Mauritio this could in fact be the same kind of situation as TSH tests. In other words, the test is uninformative because the correct method was forgotten or simply unknown but is accepted anyway because it's the norm.

Also, I'd like to give a day 3 update: I can definitely tell something is happening because I am eating and drinking so many carbs yet it all gets digested right away to do something, probably to build muscle. Why? For the past week and a half I've been making it a goal to do 60 pull ups every day. With my current Peaty supplement stack I can already often feel overnight improvements in muscle size but it seems to have accelerated with the 11 kT. Even if I absorb only 100mg of 11 kT a day (100% would be 170mg) that's roughly equivalent to the common 500mg/week regimen used by bodybuilders and maybe even more than that. Now, if you consider that this liquid requires no injections and can't aromatize, this could be the Peatiest way to get more T in your body.

Mauritio

@engineer yes! I've never really seen any body talk about the impact of the (adrenal) keto androgens on overall performance and androgenicity in the peat world.

Cool thanks for sharing !
I personally would take way less (more in the realm of what peat recommended) but to each their own. And since it doesn't aromatize it seems safer ...

Mauritio

said in 11KT - 11-keto-Testosterone:

yes! I've never really seen any body talk about the impact of the (adrenal) keto androgens on overall performance and androgenicity in the peat world.

Another important point:
11keto-T is NOT just an adrenal hormone!
It is also produced in the gonads in significant amounts.

"Here, we found evidence that 11-KT is pro-
duced in human gonads and is one of the major androgens.It can potentially act as a nonaromatizable androgen. Testicular Leydig cells and ovarian theca cells expressed the enzymes for producing 11-KT from testosterone,CYP11B1 and HSD11B2. In fact, Leydig cells produced 11-KT, autonomously."

"Our results strongly suggest that the gonads are main organs for 11-KT production in humans..."

https://sci-hub.ren/10.1210/jc.2016-2311

Mauritio

@engineer said in 11KT - 11-keto-Testosterone:

It has been observed that in control groups of healthy individuals the levels of 11-keto-testosterone can be double the levels of testosterone.

In this study this was not the case. Men had about 20 times higher T levels compared to 11keto-T.
Weird ...
https://sci-hub.ren/10.1210/jc.2016-2311