Cooking with Jennifer
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@Jennifer Excellent. Thank you. I'll test drive that one when I get a chance.
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@Mossy, yes, tale as old as time. It’s scary to think how dangerous some hand-me-downs can be, that they aren’t created in a vacuum, but a byproduct of something far more reaching, since we are connected to everything that is and ever was, man being a strand in the web of life and all.
Actually, it was my dad’s lack of fitness that bothered him more than anything, but I had a heart-to-heart with him, reminded him of everything we’ve been through with my mum’s passing and his cancer diagnosis, spoke from experience of having to fight to walk again after my spine collapsed, and when he got down on himself, said he was never going to get better, I reminded him that doctors said I would never get better and I’m climbing mountains again, something I didn’t do by giving up. I think it’s important that we keep each other honest so I was a pain in his arse when he made excuses (lol), and he’s finally taking his recovery seriously. He started napping twice a day, eating and taking his supplements on schedule, and he’s now up to 2 mile hikes with ease. I just switched his thyroid from TyroMix to TyroMax and within two doses, he told me he got his appetite back so another victory.
I’m sorry you’ve experienced it, too, Mossy.
It’s a lot. In my case, the lack of help from abled family isn’t stubbornness. Some take things for granted, don’t realize what they have until it’s gone, but I guess that’s their cross to bear, not mine. When my dad passes, I’ll have no regrets, just like when my mum passed, because I knew what I had when I had it, and did everything in my power to nurture and protect it. I mean, what is a family, if not for that? Blood may be thinker than water, but love is thicker than blood, and as far as I’m concerned, love is a verb. It means little, without action.Oh, okay. You meant actual milk bread. If I’m not mistaken, it’s popular in Japan. I have a few milk bread recipes by Japanese bakers saved on YouTube. It does look light and fluffy. That’s why I tend to stick with brioche, but you’ve inspired me to make milk bread.
YAY! I’m so glad your dad liked the lasagna.
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@Jennifer Indeed, if you can recover, he can as well...at least to the degree allowable by age, circumstances, etc. The mind and the spirit definitely need support along with the physical. That's good how you've turned your dad around, and how you keep each other honest. I tend to be the voice of reason for my dad as well. Though, I'd say my dad is more stubborn than yours. Two naps a day is great. I've told my dad sleep is one of the most beneficial things you can do for your body. He does nap during the day, but only because he hardly sleeps at night. So, I don't count those as naps, but as necessary sleep.
Interesting about the switch to TyroMax, for your dad. I've mentioned thyroid to my dad several times. If I wasn't so sensitive to supplements, I'd suggest to him that I'd try it first. So the T3-T4 ratio, between the two supps, must've been the difference for your dad.
Yes, if we do our best, we've done our part. Part of that I think is letting go, each day. We can't be indebted to the past and that which we didn't do, but work in the day that we have and that which we can do. That verb you talk about.
Yes, milk bread is big in Japan...but isn't everything, haha.
They tend to love fluffy and cute. So, it makes sense they do that to their bread. Brioche is very good. And from my very little knowledge, I'd say maybe a distant relative to milk bread. I've yet to make it homemade, but it's on my list for French toast.I've yet to try the potato meatloaf, but I hope to soon. I made broccoli cheese soup today, and it is really hearty and good. I realize talking about anti-thyroid broccoli on a Peat inspired forum is close to incurring anathema, but there is plenty of cream, milk, and cheese in the soup to counter it.
I did make pro-Peat beef liver pate this week. It's not bad. I'm not a huge fan of liver, so it adds some flavor to it.
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@Mossy, yes, your dad’s naps are necessary sleep, for sure. Regarding the stubbornness, my relationship with my dad may be different than your relationship with yours? My dad didn’t raise me so it has taken difficult conversations to get to this point.
I’m not too sure why TyroMax is more effective for my dad, but I once came across a post on the old RPF stating that Ray thought alcohol degrades thyroid hormone so if true, maybe the ethanol in TyroMix affects its potency?
Yes, doing our best. Effort, itself, goes a long way.
Haha! Modern Japan (Tokyo?) does seem to like fluffy and cute. Brioche makes amazing French toast! Have you made French toast with the milk bread?
LOL I think cruciferous veggies only (potentially) inhibit thyroid function if they’re raw. Ray was known to make, and recommend, kale broth for magnesium and I don’t think he would have done so if it’s anti-thyroid, but I’m all for plenty of cream, milk and cheese.
Do you experience benefits eating liver? I’m not a fan of it, either. One whiff of it and I gag. Ray talked about the importance of eating what we enjoy, how it starts the digestive process, and it’s something I live by so I found foods I like with similar nutrients as liver.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
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@Jennifer Ah, definitely a different dynamic then, between you and your dad. I would imagine he doesn't have as much pull on you then, and can't be too demanding, stubborn. (Not that my dad can get away with too much of that.)
Ok, that is interesting then, why Haidut would use alcohol in one and not the other. Maybe he simply has a different perspective than Peat on the use of alcohol in thyroid.
I have not made French toast with anything other than the Brioche. My only experience with milk bread is with the hotdog and hamburger buns. I have seen some Japanese pancake recipes that must be some type of milk bread or an off shoot of it. They are the extreme of fluffy. They look great, but my cooking ability is topped off currently, where I'll likely never put that on the menu. I struggle fitting in that which I'm already familiar with, so the fancy and fluffy will have to wait for that rare opening.
Yes, cream, milk, and cheese tend to make many things better. I just made again (tonight) potato soup, with 2 cups of heavy cream, and then if desired, grated cheese on top once served. (The mention of potato reminded me that I need to attempt to work in your potato meat loaf recipe.)
I do experience benefits with liver. I really don't like it, but it's one of the few foods I eat that feels medicinal. I eat it like a supplement. It ebbs and flows, in terms of getting that effect, but normally when I eat it, I get an energy boost and simply feel better. It truly is a burden to eat, but everything else I eat is not like that. I do so poorly with supplements in general, I don't mind this one food that is a chore. I think making it into a pate does make it more palatable, and I can see how I can make it even tasty and something to look forward to, such as by adding bacon, cream, and mushrooms, along with the other ingredients that give it flavor. I've seen high-end pates at the store (duck liver, lamb liver, etc), that are expensive, throughout the years, so it must be something worth making...haha.
I can't blame you for passing on liver. I did so myself for quite some time, but have incorporated it back in lately.
"To desire action is to desire limitation" — G. K. Chesterton
"The true step of health and improvement is slow." — Novalis -
@Jennifer chicken liver cooked with lots of diced onions (caramelize them first) and some fennel seed and a can of baked beans and a generous wollop of sweet bbq sauce served on buttered toast is fire af
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@Mossy, actually, the pull my dad has had on me is even stronger than parental authority. With my mum’s passing and his cancer diagnosis, having those difficult conversations felt like the equivalent of my kicking a puppy, but my trying to fill the void that my mum’s death left is what led to my less than graceful burnout, and I’ve learned that love isn’t always warm fuzzies, sometimes it’s brutal honesty, and our relationship is better for it.
True, maybe Haidut know’s something Ray didn’t, and I’ve read accounts of TyroMix working well for others. All I know is, like my dad, I’ve used it for an extended period when TyroMax was out of stock and I found it ineffective. I lost my period, something that only happens when my thyroid function is poor, and got it back when I switched back to TyroMax. I do wish TyroMix worked for us because I dislike not knowing the source of the thyroid glands used in NDTs, for ethical reasons.
I think I know the pancakes you’re referring to. Are they roughly 1.5 inches thick? As luck would have it, today I came across Japanese milk bread at Whole Foods so I’m going to use it for French toast and see how it compares to the brioche:
I meant to ask you way back, is there a potato variety you like best for potato soup?
I can see having liver then, for sure. Even if you did tolerate supplements, I still think liver (and real food, in general) is better. Had I noticed a benefit from it, I might have been motivated to make it a part of my diet, too, but I’m getting many of the same nutrients averaging upwards of 6 eggs a day and sea scallops several times a week. However, since overcoming the adrenaline dysautonomia/adrenaline attacks, I’ve been slowly transitioning my diet back to animal-based so if I do include liver in the future, I would have it in the form of pâté, for sure. Cretons, a French Canadian pork pâté, as well as liverwurst, are staples in my family.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
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@sunsunsun, thank you for sharing.
We have a similar meal that’s a staple in my family, except we have the baked beans on the side. I’ll try it on the milk bread and see what my dad thinks. Thanks again! -
@Jennifer Hi Jennifer, I've been AWOL for several weeks. Sometimes I get screen burnout and without intending, find myself doing other things, until I forget I had a screen life. But the screen calls. So here I am. I'm sorry you had to wait so long for a response.
Ok, interesting about that dynamic with your dad. I can understand that. Relationships are a challenge, indeed. I'm convinced we're put in the sandbox with specific people at specific times. Life is too short for it to be arbitrary. I'm back into relationships I avoided, but which now require me and others to grow. Life never entirely leaves us to our own preferences.
I think if I ever do thyroid, TyroMax will be where I start.
Yes, I do think those are the pancakes. Very thick and fluffy. Those ingredients for the Japanese milk bread look good. I like that they use butter and cream for the fat. Also, it looks like it's not sliced. so you can make the slices as thick as you like. How did it work out for your French toast? It would take a lot for brioche to be topped, but maybe the milk bread did it.
For the potato soup I normally use russet, and I don't even remember why. I did just make a corn chowder which called for red potatoes. Do you have a preference or suggestions?
I like eggs as well, but usually don't have as much as 6 day. Not intentionally, I have nothing against eggs. Though, I do remember talk about possible challenges for the liver with processing all the choline. (If I'm even remembering correctly). The sea scallops would be superb. When my budget was much better than it is now, I ate those frequently. I equate them to shrimp nuggets. Ok, so you're familiar with pate. You are French after all. I did use the pate I made like liverwurst, in a sandwich, which I had growing up. The challenge with the pate is getting a decent dose of liver. For me, nothing beats eating straight sauteed liver for getting that supplement effect.
P.S. I forgot to ask, were animal based foods causing anxiety?
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Hi @Mossy! Good for you for taking time away from the virtual world.
I like that…the sandbox. I think the same—that we meet certain people for a reason and/or season. Thankfully, we have a choice in who we invest in.Yes, it’s nice the milk bread can be sliced to a desired thickness. However, while my dad enjoyed the French toast I made with it, it didn’t top brioche. It could have just been the source of milk bread I used or the fact that my Dad only likes processed bread, but it wasn’t nearly as soft as the commercial brioche I get him:
https://www.naturesownbread.com/natures-own/perfectly-crafted-thick-sliced-brioche-style
Thank you for sharing the variety of potato you use for potato soup. For its flavor, creaminess and digestibility, my go-to variety is baby Yukon gold and not helpful to you, since you don’t have a Whole Foods near you, but when in season, this creamer I can only get at Whole Foods called Upstate Abundance from the company Row 7:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CGDYBYHM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_67
LOL at shrimp nuggets. It’s interesting that you get the most benefit from liver sautéed. That’s how my paternal family likes it. My maternal side likes the pâté and liverwurst. Perhaps their preference is influenced by who they descend from. One side is mostly French, while the other is mostly Swiss, Acadian and First Nations. I could be wrong, but I doubt that liver is commonly eaten as pâté among the Northeastern Algonquin/Wabanaki Nations, for example.
Yes, animal proteins triggered the anxiety/dysautonomia, but also plant proteins such as fava bean tofu. It was a catch-22 because protein was a trigger (though, not the cause, the cause is poor thyroid function), but low protein diets reliably tank my thyroid. Ray once said the following that I found to be true for myself:
"Vegetarians often notice temporary exhilaration when they stop eating meat, probably because their thyroid has been suppressed. But a more serious hypothyroid state often follows, from a low protein inadequate vegetarian diet. Low protein diets definitely interfere with the liver’s ability to detoxify estrogen and other stressors.”—Ray Peat
Regarding eggs and excess choline, it sounds like your body is satisfied with the amount you eat? My liver seems to process choline well because my previous diet of 8+ years, in which the majority of my healing occurred, including overcoming gallbladder disease, was just as high in choline as it is now. To give perspective, here’s what my weekly food hauls looked like during that time:
Despite all the choline and extra stress, recently—my dad was hospitalized for the same thing my mum died from—my health has only improved. My mental acuity, stress tolerance, sleep, skin, hair and nails are the best I can remember them being since my mum’s passing, and despite being far more active than usual because my dad is currently bedridden, I haven’t had the intense, sometimes debilitating, back pain that I’ve dealt with since my spine collapsed 16 years ago, which is a huge relief, to say the least.
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