Dealing with Fatigue

@AryanWarlock said in Dealing with Fatigue:

So lately I’ve been feeling really tired and hungry and generally irritable and unfocused. I have been juggling a lot of work lately, and it’s placed me in this constantly fatigued state. Are there any Peaty dietary changes or supplements I can take to gain back my energy?

Look into things that can block oxidative metabolism such as hypothyroidism and also possible thiamine deficiency/functional blockage.

Maybe your blood sugar got too low? Maybe you need to eat some nutritious food? Your description of your symptoms point to low blood sugar or maybe low thiamine which would result in the symptoms of low blood sugar.

Sugar and coffee both exacerbate thiamine problems. Carbohydrate/sugar consumption needs to be in sync with thiamine status.

Ray Peat on hypothyroidism

Dr. Derrick Lonsdale on thiamine

Combining the wisdom of both of these men has proven very helpful for me.

Ismail

@mostlylurking do you take thiamine regularly? If so, which type do you take? And how much?

Also, do you take any co-factors or things which may get depleted from B1 usage?

I noticed a couple of weeks ago I took Thiamega (product by Elliot Overton) and felt instant energy taking it after I ate (split the capsule into 5), I was so shocked at how energetic I felt after taking the B1 mixed capsule. I continued to take B1 after each meal and felt like I could do anything.

The feeling went away after a day, assuming I used up some cofactors required in thiamine uptake/utilisation, so I added a b-complex and magnesium, but never got the same feeling again.

@Ismail said in Dealing with Fatigue:

@mostlylurking do you take thiamine regularly? If so, which type do you take? And how much?

Yes. I take 1 gram of pure thiamine hcl powder 2Xday; once mid morning, again mid/late afternoon. I space the thiamine at least 30 minutes away from food intake as sweets/carbs cancels it out.

I follow Dr. Costantini's protocol. His website is here. Therapy how-to is here. FAQs are here.

Also, do you take any co-factors or things which may get depleted from B1 usage?

Yes. Things to watch that can get depleted include magnesium, potassium, riboflavin, zinc. Other things as well. High dosing thiamine increases/optimizes oxidative metabolism so other nutrients, vitamins/minerals are more likely to get used up if there's a borderline deficiency. I rely on OJ and bananas for my potassium; I supplement riboflavin, niacinamide, biotin, b5, b6, magnesium glycinate, also some progesterone, pregnenolone, k2, D3, ground eggshell. Nothing else is in particularly high doses, but the magnesium glycinate is 3100mgs/day which equals to 400mg pure magnesium. I'm hypothyroid and take an optimized dose of prescription NP Thyroid by Acella (desiccated glandular product).

I noticed a couple of weeks ago I took Thiamega (product by Elliot Overton) and felt instant energy taking it after I ate (split the capsule into 5), I was so shocked at how energetic I felt after taking the B1 mixed capsule. I continued to take B1 after each meal and felt like I could do anything.

You will probably get better benefit if you space taking it away from eating by at least 30 minutes.

I'm not sure what exactly Elliot is trying to accomplish with this mixed thiamine product. It's a little confusing to me. I'm at a loss regarding the 100mg of thiamine hcl mainly. Thiamine hcl doesn't get into the system very well if taken orally. Dr. Costantini explained that you have to take 2 grams of thiamine hcl orally for 7 days (=14 grams) to equal a single 100mg dose of thiamine hcl taken by injection.

I know that Elliot believes that thiamine hcl does not get into the brain but Dr. Costantini said that thiamine hcl gets into the brain just fine if the body is flooded with enough of it. That has been my own experience.

The feeling went away after a day, assuming I used up some cofactors required in thiamine uptake/utilisation, so I added a b-complex and magnesium, but never got the same feeling again.

I remember when I started taking high dose thiamine hcl I started with around 300-350mgs, 2Xday. It worked great for a week to 10 days and then I needed to increase the dose to get the same effect. So I increased the dose every 7-10 days until I got up to 1500mgs/day and started to be concerned that it might not be a great idea to keep increasing the dose.

But then I found Dr. Costantini's site and learned that my optimum dose, based on my weight, is 2 grams/day. So I increased to that dose (1 gram, 2Xday). Within 2 days my entire digestive tract normalized for the first time in maybe 30-40 years. It was a very big deal.

I did try taking 2.5grams of thiamine hcl one day. However, that night I experienced shooting electrical zapping pains in my thighs when I went to bed. I interpreted that to mean I had taken too much thiamine hcl so I went back to the 2 grams/day dose and have been doing very well on this dose for 3.5 years.

I think that most information on line about thiamine, how it works, etc. can be extrapolated to the other various types of thiamine. But of course there are some differences too. For example, TTFD uses glutathione to work so if you are deficient (I was) you can have a negative reaction to the TTFD. But TTFD gets into the system easily. Thiamine hcl, taken orally, has poor absorption so a higher dose is needed, but it actually improved my glutathione status. This is the reason why I take thiamine hcl instead of TTFD.

I hope that this information is helpful to you.

Ismail

@mostlylurking thank you ever so much, this is extremely helpful and beneficial!

How did you know your glutathione levels were low?

@Ismail said in Dealing with Fatigue:

@mostlylurking thank you ever so much, this is extremely helpful and beneficial!

How did you know your glutathione levels were low?

Blood testing. My glutathione level was low for many years due to high oxidative stress caused by mercury toxicity from childhood mercury amalgam fillings.

After 6 months of taking high dose thiamine hcl my glutathione level tested in the normal range. Glutathione is very important and notoriously difficult to normalize if deficient.

I did try taking TTFD but one capsule gave me a bad headache that lasted 36 hours. Elliot Overton has an article about the glutathione issue associated with negative reactions to TTFD. He advised in a video that thiamine hcl would improve glutathione status. He was right about that.

see here: https://www.hormonesmatter.com/paradoxical-reactions-with-ttfd-the-glutathione-connection/

Loulou

@mostlylurking: hi, don't you recycle time to time. For example, me, I don't like to be dependent on supplements and tend to prefer a food source like liver for the b vitamins, oysters (, copper, irons and minerals), if I eat meat, I add eggshells powder for more calcium on my coffee, and I do take thyroid (cynoplus and cynomel) if I feel symptoms during my luteal phase (2 weeks before my periods).
I think I will try to do one week of b vitamins (b1 hcl, B2, B3, b5, biotin and b6) to recharge my batteries once every 3 months.

May I know why you don't recycle and take it all year long?

@Loulou said in Dealing with Fatigue:

@mostlylurking: hi, don't you recycle time to time. For example, me, I don't like to be dependent on supplements and tend to prefer a food source like liver for the b vitamins, oysters (, copper, irons and minerals), if I eat meat, I add eggshells powder for more calcium on my coffee, and I do take thyroid (cynoplus and cynomel) if I feel symptoms during my luteal phase (2 weeks before my periods).
I think I will try to do one week of b vitamins (b1 hcl, B2, B3, b5, biotin and b6) to recharge my batteries once every 3 months.

Suit yourself.

May I know why you don't recycle and take it all year long?

I've been in poor health for decades; I'm 74. I've studied Ray Peat's written work and have been following his advice intensively for 10 years. But I was still unwell because I've got heavy metal poisoning (mercury from childhood amalgam fillings). I finally found something that actually works (high dose thiamine hcl). I see no reason to stop taking it; thiamine hcl is considered a "safe" supplement. If I forget to take it for a day, I become constipated and incontinent because my autonomic nervous system doesn't work like it should without the high dose thiamine + magnesium. I prefer being able to function and to feel good enough to go outside and dig in my garden.

The only prescription drug that I take is 135mgs of NP Thyroid by Acella, a desiccated thyroid product that actually works.

Spend a little time and watch Dr. Costantini's patients' before and after treatment videos here. Information about Dr. Costantini is here.

Here is a short interview of one of Dr. Costantini's patients; maybe this will help explain why I keep taking high dose thiamine hcl. Although I never got the official diagnosis of Parkinson's Disease, I was very sick with all the symptoms of Wernicke's Encephalopathy and had developed a tremor in my right hand (no more).

Loulou

@mostlylurking aw, I am sorry for all your health issues. I must say that I am quite lucky after a few health woes that my health is in a good place now. But I am much younger than you, and I have been peating for a few years now which has helped tremendously.

I am glad you have found something that is working for you. Ok, I will watch a few of Dr Constantini's videos. Thank you for the links.

I intend to watch Chris masterJohn as well. Apparently he is quite peaty as well.

@Loulou said in Dealing with Fatigue:

@mostlylurking aw, I am sorry for all your health issues. I must say that I am quite lucky after a few health woes that my health is in a good place now. But I am much younger than you, and I have been peating for a few years now which has helped tremendously.

I am glad you have found something that is working for you. Ok, I will watch a few of Dr Constantini's videos. Thank you for the links.

I intend to watch Chris masterJohn as well. Apparently he is quite peaty as well.

Peat did speak favorably of Chris Masterjohn. I think exploring other people's work can be very helpful. Discernment is a critical life skill. I've found Elliot Overton's work very helpful, also Dr. Derrick Lonsdale, also Dr. Chandler Marrs. Articles by these people are available at hormonesmatter.com . When in doubt I tend to rely on Ray's ideas, especially regarding thyroid and hormones.

Ismail

@mostlylurking thank you, yes I’ve seen Elliot’s video on the same topic - think it’s called paradoxical reactions or something similar. I’ve also bought the book which Elliot refers to and how he got into thiamine etc. (The one by Dr Lonsdale and Chandler Marrs), never had the chance to read it though.

I think I’m gonna try and experiment with the HCL version and see how I get on.

@Ismail said in Dealing with Fatigue:

@mostlylurking thank you, yes I’ve seen Elliot’s video on the same topic - think it’s called paradoxical reactions or something similar. I’ve also bought the book which Elliot refers to and how he got into thiamine etc. (The one by Dr Lonsdale and Chandler Marrs), never had the chance to read it though.

I think I’m gonna try and experiment with the HCL version and see how I get on.

Dr. Costantini's website might be of interest to you as he always used thiamine hcl for his patients. Lots of good info there. His research papers are hiding under "Blog Posts" I wound up following his Therapy dosage amounts for oral thiamine hcl.

I just did a quick search and found this: https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/Antonio-Costantini-2004482521

Ismail

@mostlylurking will def check it out, thank you as always, much appreciated Have ordered some HCL version of thiamine, meant to arrive today.

@Ismail said in Dealing with Fatigue:

@mostlylurking will def check it out, thank you as always, much appreciated Have ordered some HCL version of thiamine, meant to arrive today.

Good deal! Continue researching thiamine, especially about things that deplete it/interfere with it such as: sugar, high carbs, coffee, black tea, sulfites, foods containing thiaminases. see here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/thiaminase

Lots of prescription drugs, including antibiotics, block thiamine function. Mine got blocked by Bactrim antibiotic. Things did not go back to normal after stopping the antibiotic and I got into real trouble; it took months to recover via high dose thiamine hcl.