Any info on sepsis/bacteremia? Antibiotics used?
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Anyone familiar with how this is typically treated and what types of antibiotics are commonly used? How safe are these specific antibiotics (I know some antibiotics are more favored than others by this community)? Any tips for how to go about treating this?
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@Energia What kind of Bacteria? Otherwise a broad spectrum like Vancomycin would be used. I had once got a scratch (on a cement chunk) whilst swimming in the gulf coast as a kid. A Dark Line of my vein started at the scratch site at my wrist, and after a few hours it had moved up my arm to my biceps. I told my Pops about it and he grabbed me and took me to the hospital for IV anti biotics. Yep, if this line hits your heart, bad case of carditis or pericarditis. Not good.
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True.
There are times, perhaps more often then not, when an infection develops from commensal bacteria turning pathogenic just because the body being in a poor state, induced by a terrible state of imbalance, reflected in a continual and worsening lowering of metabolism with commensurate loss in energy production, could have us in a chronic state of acid-base imbalance. This favors the morphing of normally regulatory and beneficial bacteria into pathogenic bacteria and worse, fungi, and even worse, larger fungi that become more virulent as fungal parasites.
I believe this accounts for what sputum and urine cultures would show different strains such as e. coli and lacto-bacteria being identified as the pathogenic culprit, in terms of its dominance in the sample. These are from within the body having morphed when in a better body state, they would not dominate and would be suppressed by the microbiome balancing each bacteria to keep bacteria commensal and not pathogenic.
Since it takes about 5 days for a dominant culture to be identified in a lab culture, there is no choice but to use a broad spectrum antibiotic. In a matter of life or death, IV antibiotics would be used because they are leas used and likely the pathogen has not developed a resistance to the antibiotic.
To increase survival, two broad spectrum IV antibiotics would be used, one being gram-positive and the other gram-negative. As IV antibiotics are only administered in a hospital setting (usually), a hospital stay would need to be lengthened (usually for 7 days) to finish the protocol.
I had heart failure last year and was thus saved. The dominant bacteria was commensal turned pathogenic. It starts with lacto- and I believe normally inhabits the gut.
Knowing this helps me not take seriously the doctor who recommended me taking Ciprofloxacin, which we but our doctors know to have adverse side effects but the doctor was adamant because the sputum culture result says it is the only oral antibiotic that is resistant to the dominant offending bacteria.
I was more adamant though in refusing to take it, and we settled for safer antibiotic, Cefuroxime.
But I still got well after recovery at home. It wasn't that Cefuroxime was effective nonetheless. It was that I was able to restore my body to a metabolic state that allowed to to fully recover. Our doctors know nothing about good metabolism being crucial to our body's ability to rid itself of pathogens. I would shake my doctors' hands each time (no fist bumping) to see how their temperature is. One young doctor would feel corpse cold to me, and she is unaware of the role of good metabolism to maintaining health.
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@AkJono Culture was positive for gram positive bacteria but the identification process is still in progress. That sounds like a nasty scratch, glad it turned out okay!
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@yerrag Glad to hear it worked out for you. I think partly this is what happened in my case, with my body just being too weak to maintain proper balance of organisms. I was more so concerned about a systemic fungal infection as I had reason to believe this was the case, but from what I've read the culture would have picked up on this. Regardless, I'm glad to finally get some answers. Probably best that you avoided the cipro, that's essentially the kind of info I'm looking for in case hospitalization is required. Procedures or medications to avoid if recommended by conventional doctors. I assume a hospital visit will be recommended as I've been experiencing pretty moderate neurological symptoms also.
Do you or anyone else know if theoretically bacteremia can be sustained for a chronic amount of time, as I've been having symptoms associated with this issue for years at this point?
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@Energia - I queried Peatbot.com about safe antibotics.
User: what are good antibiotics
Peatbot: According to Ray Peat, tetracycline, erythromycin, and penicillin are considered fairly safe antibiotics. He also mentions that older, safer antibiotics can be effective, typically recommending a treatment duration of 2 to 3 weeks. Additionally, he notes that amoxicillin and minocycline have shown high in-vitro activities against Lyme disease Borrelia and provided good protection in animal models.
15-20 years ago, a member of my family cut herself washing dishes and the cut got infected. The infected veins were visible on her arm and the infection slowly spread up towards her elbow. She got a penicillin injection and was never hospitalized. The penicillin quickly cleared the infection has she had no negative effects. I am thinking the disruption to her gut microbiome from the penicillin did not present any dysbiosis.
Has your doctor prescribed any antibiotics for your current situation? Are they withholding medication (postponing treatment) until after they get a positive identification on the exact species of bacteria?
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@DavidPS Thanks for explaining in details about the antibiotics. Really this forum users know very well about antibiotics.
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@jefferson - Your welcome.
Energia asked for information and the antibotics. I am answering.
Sepsis and bacteremia are both potentially life-threatening conditions. That was my bacteremia/penicillin story. Next, I will write a sepsis/vancomycin story. They are just stories about events in my family.
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@DavidPS Thanks for the great info. I actually bought the test myself, so I'm not under current medical supervision for this issue. It was one of the few labs left to provide any sort of clarity to my situation and has been ongoing for years, so might as well wait it out until the results come back.
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@Energia said in Any info on sepsis/bacteremia? Antibiotics used?:
Anyone familiar with how this is typically treated and what types of antibiotics are commonly used? How safe are these specific antibiotics (I know some antibiotics are more favored than others by this community)? Any tips for how to go about treating this?
I have had sepsis before. Two times requiring hospitalization. It isn't clear to me what you are experiencing. You mention neurological issues. Sepsis usually elevates your heart rate, how is yours? Sepsis can progress in to septic shock which means low blood pressure, low tissue perfusion, and potentially if this continues damage to liver (temporary hopefully) and necrosing of toes fingers limbs.
Check your blood pressure. Check liver enzymes maybe. And blood lactate test associated with the metabolic acidosis that occurs in sepsis. There are other tests too but im no expert.
Usually sepsis is not chronic.
My protocol that prevented me from having to go to the hospital when I got sepsis a third and fourth time:
ginger extract to prevent vomitting and allow supplementation
bag breathing
1 g of aspirin, the optimal amount theorized to stimulate the immune system, taken dissolved and alongside baking soda and gelatin for stomach protection
licorice extract as a glucocordicoid because that has positive results on sepsis
pregnenolone or progesterone
methylene blue at low to moderate dose maybe 10 mg because this inhibits nitric oxide which is elevated in sepsis
high dose thiamine because this was shown to yield positive results in sepsis, but could be taxing on your system if low in magnesium
inosine (not inositol) because studies showed positive results in sepsis. 1.5 grams per day is likely safe
multivitamin
beef liver
vitamin c because it was proven to have positive results
vitamin b3
(this is all from memory, so I have probably forgotten something)
many of these things synergize with each other, and that is critical for the success.I also used an IV service where a mobile nurse came out and administered myer's cocktail, containing salt, vitamin C, zinc, magnesium, and others.
Salt supplementing will keep blood pressure up if thats an issue.
Let us pray that one day hospitals will adopt a more energetically-centered approach like this.
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@Energia said in Any info on sepsis/bacteremia? Antibiotics used?:
. I was more so concerned about a systemic fungal infection as I had reason to believe this was the case, but from what I've read the culture would have picked up on this
The culture AFAIK misses many things. The test involved can only identify what the test is designed to ID. It is not an omniscient test for every pathogen that exists under God's earth. Unless it sees visible black or gray molds forming, it would not know a virus from a fungus. This is just me and I'm pretty sure no one would agree to what I say here (the certainty of proof and what the FDA and the AMA and the med schools and WHO and the qualified? panel of judges the Nobel Prize says that most of us hold as the gold standard), but at the risk of my life if I'm going against the prevailing current because that current is directionally wrong and leads to rabbit holes and wild goose chases which keeps leading you to worse outcomes until you are in death's door. For to be directionally viable I have to believe in the terrain theory of Beuchamp over the germ theory of Pasteur. Sadly but understandably, what makes the world go round is the adoption of Pasteur over Beauchamp, which has been ongoing for the past century and a half.
The majority of bioenergetics believers here (and even more outside this community) still adhere to this standard of germ theory and at least half of us believe that virus exist. And all of us, without much of a choice, have to rely on the scholarly research that is biased in maintaining the germ theory system of belief. A lot of discovery on the terrain theory is arrested because commercial interests cannot profit from what terrain theory seeks to accomplish to make each of us healthy from within and not dependent on their snake oil.
So it is with a grain of salt that the pop culture would view terrain theory- with a lot of woo.
With that said, I cannot so much as identify a fungus (unless visible as in mold) and whatever that is really fungal will be identified as a bacteria or a somatic cell (part if the body) because the lab diagnostician viewing the sample under a microscope, no matter how high-powered it is, is going to see it as anything but fungi. That is the institutional bias we have to be cognizant of when we trust labs to interpret tests.
There is a sanctity to these tests that is like a religion, and the western religion of Christianity conditions us to not doubt (like Thomas did) and to not ask questions when we do not understand but just trust the high priest. In this regard, the mystery of the Trinity, with the Son having a mother, the mother being the 'Mother of God." As inane as it may seem to a martian, we are held to accept mysteries just as we are to the veracity of COVID RT-PCR testing for that virus which in the first place has never been proven to exist as a class of microbes. I believe that most infections that are not bacterial are not viral either, but fungal. But because this medical religion wants us to believe in viruses, it is more successful when it minimizes the more the fungal infection and in its place it can place the virus in its pedestal. To be feared, if not worshipped, and the fear it generates not only leads to scam-worthy level of profits just on the testing alone. And the level of control on our liberties can be justified as this fear gives them license with our very thankful permission.
So...
No, contrary to our mistaken assumption, the culture would not have easily picked up on the presence of fungi.
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@Energia said in Any info on sepsis/bacteremia? Antibiotics used?:
Probably best that you avoided the cipro, that's essentially the kind of info I'm looking for in case hospitalization is required. Procedures or medications to avoid if recommended by conventional doctors. I assume a hospital visit will be recommended as I've been experiencing pretty moderate neurological symptoms also.
You have to make your own decision, but you will be facing a very strong countercurrent that would make any normal being buckle under its weight.
I would play along as much as I can, because like it or not, modern medicine is the result of the genocide (both literally and figuratively) of the war of the current medical establishment on doctors of other persuasions. For example, a century ago Pres. McKinley relied on a homeopath for his medical needs. He was assassinated, and part of me believes strongly that his medical preference made him part and parcel of the reasons he was assassinated. He stood in the way of the 'progress" the country underwent by being critically and independent-minded. Drone presidents have been the norm, with the exception of a popular one that was similarly assassinated.
I got very sick 3 years ago, at the height of COVID. Ibkeot quiet, didn't ask for help from my siblings, who would out of concern have sent me to a "world-class" hospital, and I would upon being submitted to their protocols and procedures, have lost my rights and would likely be gone by now. I don't exaggerate. We are well aware of the draconian steps they employed in the interest of "safety for all."
I instead went and ran with what I knew to be best for my survival. I was running a high fever, my bones were aching, I would have cold sweats in the middle of the night, and I would struggle to stand up. My arms and legs were all cramped up.
I was very acidic. One skill I have is that I knew how to test for my acid-base balance. And I tested very acidic. My urine-saliva pH tests said so, and my breathing rate said so. In confirmation of each other.
I knew there is an infection. I was jaundiced as well, which points to my liver being very much affected. My CBC wbc showed high levels, while even my eosinophils was very high, which I would interpret as a high level of fungal parasites. This is confirmed by my platelets being low enough to breach 150. I was headed there, where if diagnosed by doctors, I would be COVID positive or have dengue, or I would be a case if having both of them.
I didn't take any antibiotics nor antivirals. I breathed in carbogen, as I had bought one 5 years ago for my mom. But my mom died before it arrived. And it had been sitting unused.
Slowly over the next few days I recovered. But I would not have done this had I not known about terrain theory.
I was able to use carbogen to get my body to a reasonable level of balance in terms of acid-base balance. This is a lesson I learned from Ray Peat - that to heal, one has to restore the body's ability to heal itself, and less on external interventions. Especially the ones that would trade off relieving an existing symptoms but simply drive the imbalance deeper into the system.
The carbogen unit I had was a very rudimentary version. Steve, of Carbogenetics.com, had upgraded the unit after it came back on sale. A member I'm helping now has bought it and showed me its current reincarnation. AIT is now called the Carbohaler.
$700 is a lot of money. But it is money well spent. A lot of us keep buying supplements, but if you add up what has been spent, $700 is a relatively miniscule amount. And can be used again and again, and once healed, it can be used my friends and family.
I haven't been in touch with Steve though. He still owes me a capnometer which I paid in advance for. I will collect if and when he makes one that is more affordable than the ones in the market.
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Something to consider is that they always seem to want to order CT scans. Both times I was in the hospital for sepsis I got head and chest CT scan. Chest X-ray too. X-ray is about 80 times less strong than CT, if I remember. They may do this for liability reasons.
Ray Peat's stance is to avoid these unless necessary.
I saw a post on RPF by haidut about niacinamide and inosine for protecting against radiation from scans. the advice was to take them before and after. and maybe for a few days afterward too. there are other things like maybe ginger and vitamin c and other that could protect too. so maybe get the scan with these in order to have more knowledge about the health problems you have
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@DavidPS Thanks for your valuable reply message.
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@Energia Limonene (from lemon oil) is really good at preventing sepsis in animal studies , citrulline looks good too
5 days pre treatment of ~1g - 1.5g limonene completely prevented sepsis mortaility from LPS and drastically lowered sepsis score
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10968638/& citrulline to restore immune function after sepsis , which gets taken out by it (i pop some citrulline for a couple days at a cold onset). helps restore T cell mitochondria function , and clear bacteria / mrsa in lungs
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2115139119so 1. limonene for the inflammatory damage from the LPS / endotoxin released by bacteria (also the TLR4 increase which is 1 of the major paths of this) (maybe reduces bacteria load too with direct effect https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3570463/)
and 2. the citrulline to restore immunity and take out the bacteria
(isolated limonene may be best as theres some other compounds in lemon oil that are toxic to immune cells rather than just changing their status)idk but id assume in severe sepsis youd want to take out the inflammatory damage first before switching to restoring immunity to lower bacteria load
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Thanks for all the great information you all provided. Culture turned out to be positive for a relatively common and most often benign skin bacteria, so it was most likely a false positive/contaminated sample. But, this is all useful information nonetheless.
