@Mauritio said in Thymus health:

@cs3000 said in Thymus health:

Looks like the main benefit of the Thymus could actually be from suppressing too much immune damage via t reg cells

That is such an interesting thought. Why wouldnt we have an organ whos purpose it is to dampen excessive inflammation, given chronic inflammation is a part of so many diseases.

@yerrag said in Thymus health:

The funny thing is that the elephant in the room was always being ignored, in the absence of mention of the T-cells, such that it's importance was relegated to that of a bit player, inconsequential to improving our body's response to the putative virus.

Seems to me that beefing up the thymus gland should be the main topic of the COVID response. The question of the day.

Looks like a big health unlock , neutrophils are big players in autoimmune problems maybe the biggest, you see them showing up causing big damage in a wide range of health issues covid cystic fibrosis ulcerative colitis heart failure etc

and theyre highly destructive with different weapons, cytokine release, then they have proteases that degrade the structure surrounding the cell (if u inhibit neutrophil proteases in arthritis they dont develop arthritis at all https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC150852/ ), and they can form wild traps where they basically gut themselves & spill out strands of dna laced with proteins to form damaging webs like some kind of arsehole spiderman in the autoimmune situation

their benefit is mainly in the first 12 hours where theyre supposed to help kickstart the cleanup & repair process then back off (reversing their path back into bone marrow). but in the current state of health its common that they stay chronically activated for days weeks months years . regulatory t cells specifically T Reg cells look key to help resolve that

@yerrag I can't help but think of metabolic health being as impactful on our immunity, and this is is but just one example of Ray's dictum that metabolic health drives all other aspects of health in us.

something that fits with that & the rest, neutrophils dont use mitochondria for energy they basically just use glycolysis (& can create their own glucose in presence of glutamine too, and use fatty acids for some functions like ROS production or possibly switch over to fatty acid use to become more intense, in my experience eating more fat takes high neutrophil damage to an extreme),
BUT unlike neutrophils T Reg cells need mitochondria complexes functioning to enable their immune resolving function

@LucH yeah, also idk about putting a high watt device on skin because of high EMF , maybe 1 foot away is ok if intensity stays high and short duration?

@DavidPS

Ty looked into more of theirs, just 3 minutes into the eye of 8mw/cm2 (which they said is still more intensity than what sunlight gives at that 670nm red wavelength) boosted color vision for a week
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356509034

670nm for 2 minutes 40mw/cm2 daily every morning, didnt help reverse age related eye degeneration though https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340403571_A_Pilot_Study_Evaluating_the_Effects_of_670_nm_Photobiomodulation_in_Healthy_Ageing_and_Age-Related_Macular_Degeneration

but yellow + red + near IR (majority 670nm red) at 50 - 80mw/cm2, for 1 minute 30, for 3x a week for 3 weeks, gave a slight vision improvement https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5484346/

so yeah 3x a week maybe better than daily
seems weird though because you'd be getting red light from the sun daily

30nm LED at just 3 mW/cm2 at skin level (created 1cm2 light spot on fifth ribs) improved LEF in heart failure mice
10 minutes 7 days a week for 1 week
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8674466/#s2

** extremely low intensity effective over day , 10.1159/000335547
freely moving under 0.042 mw/cm2 red light at surface for 12 hrs a day
showed improved stroke recovery when given for 20 days after induction

10.1007/s00221-016-4578-8
LED held over mouse head for 90 seconds in parkinsons x2 daily 3 hrs apart, effects lasted for 2 days after use

We have estimated the energy levels reaching the midbrain at 5.3 mW/cm2 SO I guess was at least ~50 mw/cmw at head level

NIr was fast-acting and long-lasting; behavioural improvements were almost immediate following treatment and lasted for several days thereafter.

preventative effect, and faster recovery to baseline (IMMEDIATE RECOVERY FROM A TOXIN)

It should be noted that in the MPTP-NIr (post-treatment) group, the locomotor activity of mice returned to baseline almost immediately after the first NIr treatment on 7d; in fact, these animals were moving more freely around their box within only 20 min after their NIr treatment. The activity of the mice in the MPTP group by contrast was still much lower than baseline over the 2 days post-MPTP injections (45–55 %)
(mptp-nir is delayed until day 7)
*{one group was given nir at same time or before only, and the recovery effect was still there 2 days after}
*We showed that NIr treatment was able to “protect” cells against a toxic insult and limit motor deficits both when applied immediately (within minutes; i.e. simultaneous-treatment) or when applied up to 2 days beforehand (i.e. pre-treatment)

Just 5 minutes a week (20mw/cm2) increased lifespan, bone size, cartilage amount in aged mice
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1011134424001179

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8389381/#sec012

We show that Imidacloprid undermines bumblebee respiration and immunocompetence and that this can be rescued by 670nm exposures of 1min. This positive impact lasts for 4–6 days in both cases and implies that respiration and immunocompetence have common underlying mechanisms that likely resides with mitochondrial integrity.

0.5 mins exposure had no impact. In healthy bumblebees, 1 min exposure increased respiration significantly, but longer times did not result in a further increase (Fig 1B and 1C).
Elevated respiration from single exposures in healthy bees lasted 144h

1 minute of 40 mw/cm2 intensity

Co2 production higher than controls too

And its BEES so another in mammals https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26426815/

4 minutes a day stopped the increased immune cell killing of their endothelial cells in diabetic mice

Ray said just a couple minutes, or a quick flash, is enough to help stimulate mitochondria and quench excited electrons that are out of their proper flow

Just shining red light through their head. It restores their mitochondrial oxidation very quickly. - And then it'll continue on its own for a bit without the light? - Yeah, it has a certain momentum before the stress knocks it out again. So about every 10 or 15 minutes having a little flash of light on your body would probably help

Here the momentum lasted 2 hours in humans, stimulates glucose usage / co2 production from 15 mins
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jbio.202300521

If you shine just a burst of red light it quenches excited electrons , puts electrons back in the proper arrangement

Within the first hour after exposing frogs to that same intensity of gamma rays, if they shined bright red light on them, they didn't get sick at all.

more detailed writeup https://cs3001.substack.com/p/typical-room-brightness-might-not

Chronic inescapable stress creates a supersensitivity to some compounds e.g through the acetylcholine receptor, and giving the stressed animals an agonist causes core temperature to drop a lot.

These researchers found 7000 lux at eye level for 6 hours a day almost fully abolished this effect of stress induced by a compound. They used a fluorescent bulb (typically mainly orange and green wavelengths without much red and blue, but the researchers said they used "full spectrum" for this).

300 lux light at eye level for 6 hours didnt offset the effects of stress at all (a typical room might be 200 - 500 lux at eye level) .
and 7000lux for 2 hours only didn't either

7000lux for 8 hours also helped in the swim stress test

Low level lighting can still allow for lower daytime melatonin, but it’s slower than 2000 lux+ which gives a big effect in 15 minutes at 2000 lux vs 150 lux. https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/86/1/151/2841140

A cloudy day can be ~1000 lux apparently (which happens to be where effects are seen to max out on some measures).

so this might be the threshold needed in the day to help offset some effects of high stress, or possibly 500lux, if not the full 7000. But for this effect >2 hours and up to 6 hours is needed.

(thermic = hypothermic)

@cs3000 & page 58 of archive

unsaturated carbon chains in some compounds , oxidizing (adding oxygen or another electron acceptor) = carbon dioxide produced , hydrating (adding water) = glucose produced
{interesting how that fits with cancer cells going by these reactions, co2 not produced as low oxygen to add, cancer cells water logged / more free water so producing more glucose for glycolysis}

Page 58 & 59 (55 & 56 of archive) really interesting https://archive.org/details/TheChemistryOfNaturalImmunityWilliamKoch/page/n55/mode/2up

Kochs idea was the hyper-proliferation seen in cancer was an attempt at diluting energy disrupting substances so they can be more easily oxidized, from their distorted large polymer forms back to forms that can participate in cells functioning

"Some day when the multiplication is rapid enough compared with the production of the toxic factor the evolutionary purpose of the whole effort will be realized, and an efficient oxidizing machine will be produced which should serve as a protection not only against malignancy, but also against all of its associated allergic expressions, old age changes, and the lowered resistance against infection. "

@Mauritio its an aldehyde so doesnt sound like a healthy compound / pro metabolic outside of specific use nah (probably best not to take generally outside of cancer) so its one of those things that has an outweighing effect on cancer cells, the anti-cancer dose didnt show toxicity though so i guess healthy cells can deal with that amount well enough but probably some extra burden

apparently low amounts can stimulate cancer growth but higher amounts triggers the apoptosis process (thats normally lacking because of damage making it inefficient, and pH change, needs to be more acidic inside the tissue for apoptosis to happen optimally, cancers are acidic nearby but higher end pH inside - maybe methylglyoxal accumulation makes the tumor more acidic?)

Also it has two carbonyl groups , koch and reinstorff back in the day thought these can be used to take out things with strong bonds that are sticking around blocking mitochondria respiration and enable healthy processes again. maybe @dapose has more to to say on that

Following Glo1 inhibition, cancer cells switch from glycolysis to tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle to avoid apoptosis induced by MGO accumulation.

for some reason cancer cells are more sensitive to MGO overload than normal ones even though they have higher glutathione (which sounds to me like the effect is less about damage and more about re-enabling apoptosis unless for some reason they accumulate extreme amounts) https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.160.3832.1140.a

Human trial with methylglyoxal {aka pyruvaldehyde} (william Koch compound)
https://web.archive.org/web/20161017113947/http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT/v4/B/HTML/17. Talukdar et al, 205-222.html

Long term in a variety of cancers, ~80% of the people had remission or stability @dapose

Its found in mankuna honey but the amounts they used here were high at ~500mg x4 a day (in water, just a little 60ml so dont tip pH too high?, with food) + vit c and some b vits, and over a long timeframe. seeing if i can find how long the effect should take. methylglyoxal levels go up with high blood glucose & finding glyoxalase 1 inhibitors to use should increase the effect for a lower dose needed https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/methilglyoxal/ (nice writeup) looking up toxicity, apparently taking creatine can protect healthy cells so this has a selective effect

No significant toxicity (but can take creatine and vit C to enhance effect and protect healthy cells just in case there's toxicity on the heart without)
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.taap.2005.07.003

Acute toxicity study was done with two species of animals, mouse and rat. The maximum dose of methylglyoxal for each mouse was for oral 2 g, for subcutaneous 1 g and for intravenous 0.3 g

All the animals except those used for biochemical studies (see below) were observed up to 90 days after completion of the treatment and were found to remain healthy. No toxic effect on physical condition and behavioral pattern such as hair texture, food intake etc. and death were observed. However, the subcutaneous injections appeared to be painful for both treated and control groups. {diluted in saline too} The pain appeared to persist for several minutes after injection.
In the animals, which received intravenous injections, swelling appeared in the tail and adjoining regions from 3rd week of the treatment. The swelling remained up to about 10 days from end of the treatment.
Treatment of methylglyoxal had no toxic effect on the
functions of liver, kidney and heart and hemopoietic organs
of the rats

• As mentioned before, methylglyoxal had been found to possess strong antitumor activity. Szent-Gyorgyi and his associates and Apple and Greenberg long ago showed remarkable antiproliferative and curative effects of methylglyoxal towards cancer-bearing animals (Szent-Gyorgyi et al., 1967; Egyud and Szent-Gyorgyi, 1968; Apple and Greenberg, 1967).
• In in vivo and in vitro studies with animals and in vitro studies with a wide variety of human post-operative malignant tissue samples, we had observed that methylglyoxal acted specifically against malignant cells and ascorbic acid significantly augmented this anticancer effect of methylglyoxal (Ray et al., 1991, 1997a, 1997b; Biswas et al., 1997). Moreover, we had observed that creatine present in cardiac cells completely protected the animal from any possible deleterious effect of methylglyoxal treatment on cardiac mitochondria (Sinha Roy et al., 2003).
• So, we tested whether these compounds had any curative effect on mice inoculated with EAC cells. The results are presented in Table 7. It appears that at a particular dose the antiproliferative effect of methylglyoxal is augmented in presence of ascorbic acid and further improved when the mice were treated with methylglyoxal in combination with ascorbic acid and creatine. Nearly 80% of the animals treated with this combination were completely cured.

In mice 30mg/kg methylglyoxal slowed tumor development but 30mg/kg + 50mg/kg vit C + 150mg/kg creatine = 0 tumor development,

and regression into tumor free by day 10 but this was in tumors that just started growing

so gram amounts might not be needed if combined with creatine and vit C, was injected i.p so without food if thats tolerable, bumping up because of i.p ~300mg daily might be effective over time combined with 250mg vit C and 1gram creatine, split into 2 doses 6 days a week, maybe adding a couple more grams creatine would work better too

Creatine supplementation with methylglyoxal: a potent therapy for cancer in experimental models. Amino Acids, 48(8), 2003–2013. doi:10.1007/s00726-016-2224-1 
20mg/kg but i.v + vit c + creatine (started on day 7,)

@wrl aye , 3rd group is hypothyroid + cinnamon. which took the lower thyroid levels to undetectable amounts

here extract severely lowered t3 action in the heart https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26374392/ and that other one shows regular powder does it too, i dont think its safe , at least at gram amounts as regular powder, idk how much less is needed to not get that effect

@sneedful t3 aside on lead obviously taking in more is not great but 0.000768% if its 500mg is in nanogram amounts so not very significant compared to what you'd find in most peoples blood (microgram / L) actually thats just pushing into microgram amounts, its hard to tell whats significant but might be pushing it over time depends on absorption. if you go >3.6ug/dl its probably (association) significantly more toxic than <2ug. so 1.6ug/dl could be enough to make a difference. but as thats higher shared across 5L blood that seems like its a 80ug difference to me

idk though, for some reason theres consensus on every +1ug of intake being +0.16ug/dL, so +10ug would make the difference. maybe it doesnt eliminate well & builds

https://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/edf_lead_food_report_final.pdf "EDF used a ratio of 1 µg/day of dietary lead intake to 0.16 µg/dL of blood lead level (BLL) to estimate that 2.9 µg/day of dietary lead intake would result in a BLL of 0.46 µg/dL"

In NHANES III (1988–1994), patients with the highest tertile of blood lead (≥3.62 µg/dL) compared with the lowest tertile (<1.94 µg/dL) experienced a significantly higher risk of death during followup. The increased risk was 25% for total mortality, 55% for cardiovascular mortality, 89% for myocardial infarction, and 151% for stroke

@sneedful looks best to avoid cinnamon, potent anti thyroid

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1756464618305139

p is cinnamon, few grams and they couldnt even detect thyroid hormone anymore