@MooseZoomer I had the same situation, have it but mildly now. got to a point where i was pretty sure i was close to death also. had extreme twitching rippling all over my body, heart pounding & beating erratically in crazy rhythm day to day, involuntary jolting & jolting out of sleep with adrenaline rushes etc. at its peak i wrote a note in case i died in my sleep

conclusion i got to is on a basic level its a major lack of atp production, fits with the timing of you stopping the medication
Ray wrote when the ATP production in the cell is high the cells can stay relaxed

When the cell is energized, by the mitochondria working with thyroid, oxygen, and sugar, these proteins rapidly change their form, binding calcium and removing it from the contractile system, allowing the cell to relax, to be fully prepared for the next contraction. If the calcium isn't fully and quickly bound, the cell retains extra water and sodium, and isn't able to fully relax.

^ in death your muscles seize up with atp depleted
,

for me it was Vitamin D + magnesium that took it to an extreme. in some situations people convert vitamin D excessively to the 1,25 form and it potently stops mitochondria producing good amounts of ATP. In hypothyroidism people have higher 1,25 vitamin d. and in chronic inflammation through macrophages

i tried magnesium and pushed through with different forms because its commonly recommended for this, nope it accelerated things way worse. magnesium is used for enzymes that convert vit D forms.

when i stopped them both for a month or so the problem eased to about 10% ,
i noticed the twitching was worse in caloric deficit too (lower atp, and more vit D released from fat cells through lipolysis)
your low creatinine points to malnutrition, low muscle mass or or a failure to break down muscle for energy in low calories or low protein diet, how many calories do you get?

while u have this problem i would cut that milk intake / calcium in half at least if not more, likely way too much

@Ibshaver23 hesperidin from orange juice inhibits TLR4, ferulic acid too

Viral infections are rising high right now. maybe combined with bacteria & symptoms higher than usual, and bird infections apparently gaining a lot of momentum
Good to share insights here on what we can use to gain extra protection / recovery.

if youre aware of some please add more to this. especially if readily accessible & interventional

(if posting in vitro cell studies they're best to be in physiologically relevant concentrations, which depends on the substance but usually is at nM or low uM/ml concentration, or higher as /L instead if ml is not shown)

• 1 piece is eliminating the virus or lowering replication,
• another piece is blocking viral entry,
• and another piece is preventing extreme immune over-reaction damage to cells / organs

Helpful compounds might be harmful if taken at the wrong stage.
E.g immune cell activating substances at early signs of symptoms or for preventative effect, are probably not good to take when symptoms are in full effect with immune dampening substances needed to keep things from going overboard. live virus can peak early with immune cells / symptoms still active.

Preventative effect -
zinc picolinate

the picolinate has effect too so this form is important , picolinate 20mg/kg mice dose but i.p, oral dose would be a bit higher for this for full effect but these mice were given extreme doses of the virus so probably wouldnt need so much
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10439173/#sec2

100% of the mice survived given preventatively, vs 0% without. the viral load was way lower.
theraputic was given 1 day after for 3 days
prophylactic was given 3 days leading into the infection
It had theraputic effect too started later, but mainly protective

The drug was cleared faster in the lungs and was detectable at 30 min and 1 and 2 h but not at 6 and 24 h (Figure S6E). However upon 3 repeat doses, PA could be detected even at 24 h posttreatment at a concentration of 100 ng/gm in the lungs, indicating drug accumulation in the lungs

Here in humans,
10mg zinc as picolinate prevented symptomatic covid infection. 2% of the picolinate group got symptoms vs 10% without.
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/medicine/articles/10.3389/fmed.2021.756707/full
zinc picolinate is ~ 22% zinc so 15mg zinc = 55mg picolinate. both probably played a role combined.

• theres a problem with taking this preventatively. zinc is mentally activating and can build up into creating an anxious state. and some people get problems with low copper. i notice an extra anxious state building up when taking zinc for more than a few days. and i dont know about long term safety of picolinic acid. maybe best reserved for specific times.

Symptom resolving effect (later stage of infection)

Ferulic acid is very effective at lowering neutrophils in lungs in viral infections (big part of the damage in covid came from the neutrophil response)

(neutrophils main function is to peak early in infection to kickstart the process & attract other cells, by the time symptoms are noticed theyre probably already peaking or close)
doi: 10.1055/s-2006-958060

^ usual peak is 2 days of neutrophils in mice.
il-8 rises with this then drops off if things are functioning well, they're not supposed to be staying around for a long time. but with people in poor health there can be sustained neutrophil activation.

~200mg human equiv dose lowered neutrophils in lungs a lot , and giving it on day 0 the viral count increased only a little. but still probably better holding for a day or 2 of symptoms before using

should be very effective for people hit hard by symptoms / to bring them down quick after allowing them for a couple days

interestingly a derivative also given during first 3 days of infection in a highly lethal dose of virus protected them well, where dexamethasone wasnt enough https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/instance/1781695/pdf/11405556.pdf

@Mauritio
looks best trying close to sleep / or before last meal with carbs with the glucose effect, if theyre similar here maybe it wore off and caused lower gaba activity through the night? if dosed high the rebound could hit excessively looks potent

In this study O .basilicum extract had sleep benefits in menopausal women. Dosage: 250mg extract.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36750371/
Although in this study it showed no effect on sleep.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11795059/

so shows 1g of dry plant powder is too low for effects. i have effective dose of dried leaves powder at 2.5g - 7.5g

O. basilicium water extract fully restored glucose & insulin measures in diabetes model
https://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=pjbs.2020.1010.1017
increases glucose uptake by cells

& increased sleep duration on a sedative more than diazapam , decreased time taken to fall asleep a couple minutes by itself (through GABA) so maybe best timing is PM https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5020426/#sec162951
extract with both water & ethanol solubles had greatest effect (potential for gaba rebound though)

@Mauritio

@cs3000 said in Holy Basil: Phyto-TESTOSTERONE, Progesterone and thyro-mimetic ?:

But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india

This study used basil not holy basil .
basil (Ocimum basilicum) and holy basil (Ocimum tenuiflorum, also called Ocimum sanctum) are different in chemical composition . While basil (Ocimum basilicum) also seems to have a pro- Testo effect, we can't transfer the dosage 1:1 to holy basil.
That was a mistake I made as well , study on Microdose-basil I posted actually uses basil not holy basil , so I don't know if I'd get the same effects from a microdose of holy basil. But since everything varies so much here anyway, it's best to just try it out.

The odd thing is that both the Microdose 25mg of basil and the mega dose 20g (1.5g/kg) seems to have the same effect on testosterone (increase in about 80-100%) that's a 1000x the dosage. Lol something doesn't add up here or the therapeutic window of Basil (Ocimum Basilicum) is extremely large.

The side effects only showed with Ocimum Sanctum not O. Basilicum, so maybe it is even a better alternative ?

yeah that is fucked lol ,
sounds like its an ethanol extract so 2mg/kg of ethanol extract. and 4mg/kg didnt give any further effect than 2x testosterone. but yeah its very fucked how far apart they are

ok Ocimum basilicum sweet basil , so same one that showed test increase in sheep eating the whole plant

@Mauritio the 1st one, ferulic acid didnt increase uterus weight where quercetin did, (5mg/kg ferulic lowered it a little fitting with the other study showing anti-estrogenic activity at 5mg/kg, but lose some of the effects here),

had mild non significant effect on increasing estrogen vs quercetin that increased it 22.48%.
but thats at ~100mg - 150mg heq. with the estrogenic potential its probably more significant at higher doses. tho has some of its benefits at 150mg, so i think its probably an ok dose there. though more gained further

so milder estrogenic activity than quercetin , but it still binds receptors.
but the breast cancer 1 you posted is concerning yeh they didnt use crazy high concentrations
and potent effect

was dose dependant coming down from 1uM to 100nM to 10nM.

the other one you posted showing anti estrogen effect was low dose 5mg/kg, ~ 50 - 75mg human.
raised testosterone & estrogen together
lowered the elevated estrogen receptor
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8106114/

,
here given to male rats it restored & increased testosterone higher than controls 2.45 -> 3.8 , 50mg/kg rats
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/and.12798

blood levels of testosterone plummet when u give male rats estrogen. so doesnt seem to be showing estrogenic effect in males for some reason,
but the other = good enough reason for some caution yeh

@Mauritio thanks will have a look through, quercetin definitely feels estrogenic to me even at low dose, and long half life. im trying it rn for a specific effect. the supplement doses are kind of crazy for where it has effects generally

@CrumblingCookie thanks for the info , solidified another thing ive been looking for
oh right, yeah sounds reasonable , better for the tail end i guess if symptoms stick for >7 days or get too wild

its really effective at lowering neutrophils in lungs in viral infections (big part of the damage)
(found neutrophils only really needed to peak early to kickstart the process & attract other cells, unless theres a big lack of lymphocytes,
by the time symptoms are noticed theyre probably already peaking or close)
doi: 10.1055/s-2006-958060

~200mg heq, lowered neutrophil in lungs a lot , and giving it on day 0 the viral count increased only a little. but still probably better holding for a day or 2 of symptoms

should be very effective for people hit hard by symptoms in current breakout

@Mauritio hmm some big results ty,
its odd how variable they are though

so that first study was very high dose as an extract, they showed testosterone crashed

here in rats feeding an extract crashed testosterone too , with LH going up in response,
again very high dose 500mg/kg of extract , 95% ethanol extract
ursolic acid didnt play much of a role
https://www.ijpsonline.com/articles/a-study-on-the-effect-of-ocimum-sanctum-linn-leaf-extract-and-ursolic-acid-on-spermatogenesis-in-male-rats.pdf

here using lower doses up to 300mg/kg in mice didnt impair fertility (restored it against cigarette smoke, test not mentioned)
(is it the extract process, dose, or the location of the leaf creating the increase vs decrease?
they said ethanol here, was it 100%?)
http://repository.unusa.ac.id/9598/1/The Effectiveness of Extract Basil Leaves on Motility and Morphology of Spermatozoa Mice Exposed with Cigarette Smoke.pdf

feeding just the leaves to rats caused infertility here too. because of high acidity, with decreased testes weight.
but cant see the amount given
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Antifertility-effect-of-Ocimum-sanctum-L.-Kasinathan-Ramakrishnan/401cf7dfa99306f89296dcfb8fc2353f8d69d2ca

2 weeks of stopping = reversal
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/REVERSIBLE-ANTI-FERTILITY-EFFECT-OF-BENZENE-EXTRACT-Ahmed-R.-Ahamed/7a7b9a2725a96c71028e519f924f79664a246714

Great effect for the fresh leaves + rabbit studies though using 2g of leaves,
high dose of an extract showed opposite effect for thyroid too

• However, Panda et al have reported
  that OS leaf extract (0.5 g/ kg body weight)
  led to significant decrease in serum T3 and
  T4 levels which are in contrast to our study.
  [19]

maybe best to use dried leaf powder instead of extract so get all compounds water & fat / ethanol soluble

2g leaves
2kg rabbits
1g leaf / kg , human dose maybe ~20g - 30g leaf ( 2g - 3g leaf powder if wet weight 10:1 (?) )

~5g of fresh tulsi leaf paste showed good anti inflammatory effect https://www.researchgate.net/publication/289802769_Anti_inflammatory_activity_of_fresh_tulsi_leaves_Ocimum_Sanctum_in_albino_rats

some of the compounds (water soluble part only) https://sci-hub.ru/https://doi.org/10.1111/and.14179

But this one, using very high dose of 80% ethanol : 20% water extract, raised testosterone without crashing LH or causing infertility
https://academicjournals.org/article/article1380729420_Khaki et al.pdf from leaves bought in iran. the rabbit study was india

300mg/kg dose of just the oil extract caused infertility and lowered testosterone , 100mg/kg didnt raise or lower testosterone https://dergipark.org.tr/en/pub/jabs/issue/34910/387191

so its probably the water soluble compounds responsible , or leaves from certain locations

dark green basil leaves have novel peptides https://bmccomplementmedtherapies.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12906-023-04098-2