The peatiest fruit suggestions
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@LucH
Sorry for off topic, but Dutch or French speaking part of Belgium? -
@Luke said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
Sorry for off topic, but Dutch or French speaking part of Belgium?
French speaking (Liège, 100 km from Brussel).
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@LucH said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Luke said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
Sorry for off topic, but Dutch or French speaking part of Belgium?
French speaking (Liège, 100 km from Brussel).
Ah, I never really understood why that part is French speaking, as it's very close to the Netherlands, but I guess I don't know enough about the history and geography (as far as I know the border between Wallonie and Vlaanderen isn't far away). I was once in Maastricht and made a little trip the Liège, and when I started talking Dutch to waiter in a small café he looked at me as if I'm a lunatic.
To contribute something to the topic instead of just rambling: As long as it's ripe and you digest it well, all fruit should be pretty peaty.
I've never been a big party attender, but I never went to a party where I didn't probably offend most of the people there by talking about what I was interested in. (Ray Peat)
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@LucH said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Luke said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
Sorry for off topic, but Dutch or French speaking part of Belgium?
French speaking (Liège, 100 km from Brussel).
I only think of one thing, when I hear Belgium and French speaking. (As long as we're temporarily off topic.)
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Back on topic, guavas and mangoes are great. I find guava harder to get at proper ripeness. Mangoes tend to ripen much easier after purchase. Where guavas tend to simply just go bad, versus becoming ripe. Moral of the story for guavas, for me, is buy them ripe or not at all.
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@Mossy said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
Back on topic, guavas and mangoes are great. I find guava harder to get at proper ripeness. Mangoes tend to ripen much easier after purchase. Where guavas tend to simply just go bad, versus becoming ripe. Moral of the story for guavas, for me, is buy them ripe or not at all.
Same here. The ataulfo mangoes are excellent here when in season, but I gave up trying to find ripe guavas and instead, I buy it in juice form now and have it year round. I also get delicious lychee, passion fruit and soursop juice from the same company. I order a case (24 pack) weekly from Amazon.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
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@Luke said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
To contribute something to the topic instead of just rambling: As long as it's ripe and you digest it well, all fruit should be pretty peaty.
Agreed.
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@Jennifer said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Mossy said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
Back on topic, guavas and mangoes are great. I find guava harder to get at proper ripeness. Mangoes tend to ripen much easier after purchase. Where guavas tend to simply just go bad, versus becoming ripe. Moral of the story for guavas, for me, is buy them ripe or not at all.
Same here. The ataulfo mangoes are excellent here when in season, but I gave up trying to find ripe guavas and instead, I buy it in juice form now and have it year round. I also get delicious lychee, passion fruit and soursop juice from the same company. I order a case (24 pack) weekly from Amazon.
I have seen the ataulfo in stores, but tend to go for the larger varieties, which I'm seeing are either Haden or Tommy Atkins. Those names are new to me, as I just looked them up on mango.org:
https://www.mango.org/mango-variety/haden/
https://www.mango.org/mango-variety/tommy-atkins/I'll give the ataulfo a try next time.
You've given me an idea for juice. On the outskirts of where I live there is a guava orchard, but I have to buy in large quantity. I can't possibly eat them all in time; and unlike store guavas, which tend to be under ripe, these tend to be slightly over ripe —at least the last time I bought them about half were. That's better than under ripe, imo. So, I could juice any remaining gauvas, and freeze the juice if necessary. I'm guessing the juice would take well to freezing. Maybe even the fruit itself would.
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@Mossy, those are the two main varieties we have where I live. I don’t know if it’s because they’re often unripe, but I find them to be fibrous, especially compared to the ataulfo—its flesh is buttery, IMO—and pine-like/resinous in flavor, something I never taste with ataulfos. But how nice to have access to a guava orchard. I haven’t tried freezing guava before, but I’ve been successfully juicing and freezing fruit for at least 20 years now, including tropical varieties, and frozen fruit was a staple of mine the roughly 8 years in total that I followed Dr. Graham’s 80/10/10 diet and Dr. Morse’s protocol so my guess is it freezes just as well as all other fruit.
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@Jennifer said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Mossy, those are the two main varieties we have where I live. I don’t know if it’s because they’re often unripe, but I find them to be fibrous, especially compared to the ataulfo—its flesh is buttery, IMO—and pine-like/resinous in flavor, something I never taste with ataulfos. But how nice to have access to a guava orchard. I haven’t tried freezing guava before, but I’ve been successfully juicing and freezing fruit for at least 20 years now, including tropical varieties, and frozen fruit was a staple of mine the roughly 8 years in total that I followed Dr. Graham’s 80/10/10 diet and Dr. Morse’s protocol so my guess is it freezes just as well as all other fruit.
Ok, interesting. Indeed, I also would call those two varieties fibrous; and the longer I let them ripen the smoother they get, and less fibrous. I will definitely have to try the ataulfo. I think another reason I probably go for the larger variety is they are larger for the same price, if not cheaper. But, I will try the ataulfo when I get a chance. I don't always see them.
Yes, it is nice having the orchard relatively close. I didn't even know the orchard was by me all these years. I found it by accident, searching for local growers. Actually, I haven't been there in years, due to the quantity requirement, but I think I'll attempt it again. Though, I could imagine it's past harvest time currently (P.S. seems like the harvest may still be happening, but the tail end).
Good to know about your success with freezing fruit. Your diet, and food planning and management, all seem very good. I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with it — haha. The more real and whole foods it is, the more time consuming; but no doubt, the better. It's just a matter of finding a balance and making room for yet another from scratch, so to speak, additional process.
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@Mossy said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Jennifer said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Mossy, those are the two main varieties we have where I live. I don’t know if it’s because they’re often unripe, but I find them to be fibrous, especially compared to the ataulfo—its flesh is buttery, IMO—and pine-like/resinous in flavor, something I never taste with ataulfos. But how nice to have access to a guava orchard. I haven’t tried freezing guava before, but I’ve been successfully juicing and freezing fruit for at least 20 years now, including tropical varieties, and frozen fruit was a staple of mine the roughly 8 years in total that I followed Dr. Graham’s 80/10/10 diet and Dr. Morse’s protocol so my guess is it freezes just as well as all other fruit.
Ok, interesting. Indeed, I also would call those two varieties fibrous; and the longer I let them ripen the smoother they get, and less fibrous. I will definitely have to try the ataulfo. I think another reason I probably go for the larger variety is they are larger for the same price, if not cheaper. But, I will try the ataulfo when I get a chance. I don't always see them.
Yes, it is nice having the orchard relatively close. I didn't even know the orchard was by me all these years. I found it by accident, searching for local growers. Actually, I haven't been there in years, due to the quantity requirement, but I think I'll attempt it again. Though, I could imagine it's past harvest time currently (P.S. seems like the harvest may still be happening, but the tail end).
Good to know about your success with freezing fruit. Your diet, and food planning and management, all seem very good. I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with it — haha. The more real and whole foods it is, the more time consuming; but no doubt, the better. It's just a matter of finding a balance and making room for yet another from scratch, so to speak, additional process.
That’s good to know. I’ll try letting them ripen longer then. In this climate there’s a fine line between ripe and rotten when it comes to tropical fruit and overall, it has been less hit and more miss, for me. I hope you get a chance to try some good ataulfos and fingers crossed guavas are still available—I love happy accidents, especially those involving food. lol
I have a love-hate relationship with it, too. I’m all for quality nutrition, but this level of organization was born purely out of necessity. I don’t thrive on a diet native to this region or my family (mainly Swiss-French), and I meal plan, shop and cook for two and our diets are different—mine is fruit-based and his is meat-based—so I have to be organized if I want a life outside of a kitchen. lol
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@Jennifer said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Mossy said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Jennifer said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Mossy, those are the two main varieties we have where I live. I don’t know if it’s because they’re often unripe, but I find them to be fibrous, especially compared to the ataulfo—its flesh is buttery, IMO—and pine-like/resinous in flavor, something I never taste with ataulfos. But how nice to have access to a guava orchard. I haven’t tried freezing guava before, but I’ve been successfully juicing and freezing fruit for at least 20 years now, including tropical varieties, and frozen fruit was a staple of mine the roughly 8 years in total that I followed Dr. Graham’s 80/10/10 diet and Dr. Morse’s protocol so my guess is it freezes just as well as all other fruit.
Ok, interesting. Indeed, I also would call those two varieties fibrous; and the longer I let them ripen the smoother they get, and less fibrous. I will definitely have to try the ataulfo. I think another reason I probably go for the larger variety is they are larger for the same price, if not cheaper. But, I will try the ataulfo when I get a chance. I don't always see them.
Yes, it is nice having the orchard relatively close. I didn't even know the orchard was by me all these years. I found it by accident, searching for local growers. Actually, I haven't been there in years, due to the quantity requirement, but I think I'll attempt it again. Though, I could imagine it's past harvest time currently (P.S. seems like the harvest may still be happening, but the tail end).
Good to know about your success with freezing fruit. Your diet, and food planning and management, all seem very good. I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with it — haha. The more real and whole foods it is, the more time consuming; but no doubt, the better. It's just a matter of finding a balance and making room for yet another from scratch, so to speak, additional process.
That’s good to know. I’ll try letting them ripen longer then. In this climate there’s a fine line between ripe and rotten when it comes to tropical fruit and overall, it has been less hit and more miss, for me. I hope you get a chance to try some good ataulfos and fingers crossed guavas are still available—I love happy accidents, especially those involving food. lol
I have a love-hate relationship with it, too. I’m all for quality nutrition, but this level of organization was born purely out of necessity. I don’t thrive on a diet native to this region or my family (mainly Swiss-French), and I meal plan, shop and cook for two and our diets are different—mine is fruit-based and his is meat-based—so I have to be organized if I want a life outside of a kitchen. lol
Indeed. There definitely is a fine line between ripe and rotten. And I don't know if there is any scientific truth to my letting them ripen so they're less fibrous, other than it appears that they are smoother. I could guess it's like bananas and plantains, where the sugars are a factor in making things less fibrous as they ripen. I welcome the more scientific minded to set me straight if I have this wrong.
We are in the same boat: I do this out of necessity as well. Helping my elderly father and myself eat as healthy as can be had, given the price, availability, and time factors. I ebb and flow with my Peatiness, but to a large degree I do attempt to filter everything through a Peat lens.
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@Mossy said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Jennifer said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Mossy said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Jennifer said in The peatiest fruit suggestions:
@Mossy, those are the two main varieties we have where I live. I don’t know if it’s because they’re often unripe, but I find them to be fibrous, especially compared to the ataulfo—its flesh is buttery, IMO—and pine-like/resinous in flavor, something I never taste with ataulfos. But how nice to have access to a guava orchard. I haven’t tried freezing guava before, but I’ve been successfully juicing and freezing fruit for at least 20 years now, including tropical varieties, and frozen fruit was a staple of mine the roughly 8 years in total that I followed Dr. Graham’s 80/10/10 diet and Dr. Morse’s protocol so my guess is it freezes just as well as all other fruit.
Ok, interesting. Indeed, I also would call those two varieties fibrous; and the longer I let them ripen the smoother they get, and less fibrous. I will definitely have to try the ataulfo. I think another reason I probably go for the larger variety is they are larger for the same price, if not cheaper. But, I will try the ataulfo when I get a chance. I don't always see them.
Yes, it is nice having the orchard relatively close. I didn't even know the orchard was by me all these years. I found it by accident, searching for local growers. Actually, I haven't been there in years, due to the quantity requirement, but I think I'll attempt it again. Though, I could imagine it's past harvest time currently (P.S. seems like the harvest may still be happening, but the tail end).
Good to know about your success with freezing fruit. Your diet, and food planning and management, all seem very good. I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with it — haha. The more real and whole foods it is, the more time consuming; but no doubt, the better. It's just a matter of finding a balance and making room for yet another from scratch, so to speak, additional process.
That’s good to know. I’ll try letting them ripen longer then. In this climate there’s a fine line between ripe and rotten when it comes to tropical fruit and overall, it has been less hit and more miss, for me. I hope you get a chance to try some good ataulfos and fingers crossed guavas are still available—I love happy accidents, especially those involving food. lol
I have a love-hate relationship with it, too. I’m all for quality nutrition, but this level of organization was born purely out of necessity. I don’t thrive on a diet native to this region or my family (mainly Swiss-French), and I meal plan, shop and cook for two and our diets are different—mine is fruit-based and his is meat-based—so I have to be organized if I want a life outside of a kitchen. lol
Indeed. There definitely is a fine line between ripe and rotten. And I don't know if there is any scientific truth to my letting them ripen so they're less fibrous, other than it appears that they are smoother. I could guess it's like bananas and plantains, where the sugars are a factor in making things less fibrous as they ripen. I welcome the more scientific minded to set me straight if I have this wrong.
We are in the same boat: I do this out of necessity as well. Helping my elderly father and myself eat as healthy as can be had, given the price, availability, and time factors. I ebb and flow with my Peatiness, but to a large degree I do attempt to filter everything through a Peat lens.
I believe your experience. The only thing I’m not sure of is ripening. It’s said that fruit will ripen after picking if it reaches a certain level of maturity before harvesting, but the only fruit I know for certain ripens, i.e., increases in Brix, after harvesting are bananas/plantains. However, all fruit, whether picked prior to or at maturity, will soften as their fiber breaks down so I can see a picked mango becoming smoother, even if it’s not actually ripening. I just need to catch it before it starts to ferment. I’m actually allergic to mangoes (I get a rash from the urushiol) so I haven’t consumed them with enough frequency to get the ripening down.
Ah, so you’re caring for your father, too. Like you, I try to filter things through a Peat lens, but my dad has a processed-food palate, and I don’t feel right forcing a grown man to consume foods he dislikes, nor having him grossly under-eating, which has been a struggle since my mum’s passing, so I make concessions. I make his meals mostly from scratch so he isn’t consuming fraken food, but the only ingredient I’m a stickler about avoiding is PUFA-rich fats. I cook with butter and coconut oil, but he prefers starches to fruit, meat to milk and so on.
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Interesting (but too bad!) about the urushiol. There's always some underlining aspect about what we eat that is troublesome for some. Maybe there is something to the perspective that our background determines how we react to certain foods, e.g. tropical fruit not being common to a Swiss-French makeup. If I remember correctly, that is not a real Peaty concept — metabolic typing — as it's heavy on genetics.
That is pretty funny — "a processed-food palette". My dad as well. But he's given most of it up, after many years of mild coaxing. Indeed, PUFA is the greatest factor and what I do my best to avoid: but I can only be so strict. Amazingly, I also find myself cooking from scratch. Though, I'm not certain how long I can keep that up, due to schedule. My dad actually loves milk. He usually drinks more than me.
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@Mossy, sorry, I should have been clearer. I’m not allergic to the fruit itself, but the urushiol in the tree sap that gets on the mango’s skin when it’s harvested. I actually grew up on Polynesian (and Cantonese and French) cuisine with tropical fruits like coconut and pineapple as staples. I didn’t have any intolerances until my thyroid crashed in my 20s, and I overcame them by supporting my thyroid and healing chronic gastritis.
There was a time when I entertained nutrigenomics. I developed an allergy (anaphylaxis) to dairy after my thyroid crashed and doctors believed my First Nations ancestry was the cause so I was given a special (and expensive) test to confirm their suspicions, which led to a pharmacy worth of supplements and the elimination of so many foods that I developed even more allergies by further weakening my thyroid and immune system.
It’s great that your dad has given up most of the processed food, and loves milk. Mine is stubborn, but he doesn’t cook and I refuse to feed him lab chow so it only took one Hungry-Man frozen dinner with its questionable meat and sad, little brownie for him to appreciate home cooking. lol I can only be so strict when it comes to PUFA, too. I don’t cook with PUFA-rich fats, but I eat whole food sources like avocado without concern.
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@Jennifer
I see. I drew the conclusion that it was the fruit as a whole — so you can simply stay clear of the skin and you'll be fine. And I get a second demerit for forgetting the obvious tropical islands connection to your French background. Even as I was writing my thought I did think I was forgetting something. If I gave it just a bit longer, maybe I would've gotten an image of Marlon Brando from Mutiny on the Bounty and made the connection.I can completely relate about developing intolerances that were never there prior. I think yours were worse than mine; though you've seemed to have made a significant recovery. I still can't tolerant 99.9% of supplements. I'm doing much better with food, though starches can still give me trouble.
Haha..Hungry Man! That takes me back. My dad's frozen dinners of choice were Stouffer's. So, very similar. America's fine TV dinner cuisine.
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@Mossy, exactly. I just have to wear gloves and wash the skin before cutting into them. But no, you don’t deserve demerits.
A family historian and priest traced our ancestry (22,000 names) all the way back to the Crusades so I would have to confirm with them a tropics connection, but based on my own research with documentation going back 400 years (and my birthmark—a Mongolian blue spot), my ancestors were Swiss (I’m a descendant of one of the first Swiss settlers in New France and my surname is a town in Switzerland), French (New France settlers from the northern and southwestern regions of France), Acadian (the ones who stayed in the North after they were exiled by the British), and First Nations (with a Siberian connection).I’m really glad that your tolerance to food is much better. That’s half the battle. Supplements are tricky, even for those who aren’t particularly sensitive. Were you much of a starch eater, in the past? If so, it stinks that it still gives you trouble. I was lucky in that the foods that took the longest to tolerate again I enjoyed the least.
Ooh…Stouffer’s. Fancy. Your dad has a more refined palate than mine. Haha!
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@Jennifer
How strange when our food becomes our enemy. If there was one sign that my health had degraded, it was just that — where food wise, what never was a thought or issue before, now was.That is quite interesting, to have such in-depth ancestral information. By now, we all are quite the melting pot, so many generations removed from homogeneity and dispersed far from our homelands — at least to some degree in America. Even so, it's nice to have that connection to your past: which for you gives you more excuse to dress like Joan of Arc for Halloween.
Thank you. Yes, overcoming food intolerances seems to be a good measure of getting better. I seemingly was able to eat most anything most of my life without trouble. Though, in hindsight, starch must've been an ongoing issue, as I could guess starch intolerance would need time to eventually become a noticeable problem. Which brings me all the way back to the fruit topic: bananas were probably for me the first sign of a severe intolerance. Though, I've read that they are "resistant starch" and supposedly easier to digest than other starches.
Fancy indeed!
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Haha! Joan of Arc, that’s funny, @Mossy. Yes, it’s nice to have that connection to my past, not because I feel an attachment to any one place—for me, the heart is where home is so wherever I am I’m home—but to better understand my conditioning, the influences that shaped how I operated in life, the choices I made, so I could recognize and break the generations of dysfunctional patterns we inherit—the imperceivable stressors escaping our awareness and sabotaging our best efforts to be healthy. I knew I wouldn’t overcome disease, let alone do what my doctors said was impossible, if I was forever at the mercy of perfect circumstances. It was only impossible to climb again, while carrying the baggage of those who came before me. I had to lighten my load.
Regarding starch intolerance and bananas, I think raw starch can be problematic, especially for the digestively compromised, that the terms “resistant” and “complex” are an appropriate indication of the ease of digestion and such foods not as gut friendly as claimed—I’d rather get butyrate from butter—but then again, I believe in the studies done on gut morphology—that a human’s digestive system is specialized for high quality, low residue foods, i.e., the majority of foods the mainstream and alternative would have us believe are unhealthy because they’ve lost the plot—and that the most important thing for the average person when it comes to fruit is that it’s picked at maturity to get the highest Brix and lowest starch, fiber and potentially allergenic defense chemicals present when unripe and/or stressed, factors that are hard to avoid when buying it raw and imported. I’ve been manifesting the tropics here in the North, but global warming is taking longer than expected (
) so most of the fruit I consume is either pasteurized or frozen. -
@Jennifer
Yes, that is a challenge to correct and make healthy, issues brought about from factors outside of ourselves, as well as from our own choices. It's a hodgepodge of dysfunction. That requirement of perfect circumstances before we can attempt to move forward, has us forever outside the realm of progress — because we can't move. And I think to lighten your load is consistent with being able to start to move again. I'll defer to the eloquent, G. K. Chesterton:"The swiftest things are the softest things. A bird is active, because a bird is soft. A stone is helpless, because a stone is hard. The stone must by its own nature go downwards, because hardness is weakness. The bird can of its nature go upwards, because fragility is force. In perfect force there is a kind of frivolity, an airiness that can maintain itself in the air....Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly."
Haha...another victim of global warming. I think then I do take for granted my access to fairly decent raw fruit; though still primarily store bought. With a bit more time and effort, I could probably have some degree of better fruit — like those guavas I've mentioned. But that will have to go on my to-do list for now.
Your knowledge of starches and gut morphology is helpful. Thank you. The moral of the story is, ripe fruit is king.
