Reducing antipsychotic effects
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To understand why. Not yet the whole "story".
The active molecule of the medicine is acting on the TSH (maintaining it at a high level), giving then a wrong information to the brain and by consequence to the thyroid.
A high TSH caused by paliperidone is only a signal, not a solution.
If your thyroid doesn’t have the raw materials and co-factors it needs, that signal cannot translate into more T4 or T3.
So you can stay stuck in a low-thyroid state even with a high TSH, simply because the gland cannot respond.
That’s why someone can look hypothyroid, feel hypothyroid, and biochemically behave like a hypothyroid (even if the trigger started with a medication).
A distorted signal + insufficient resources = the same functional outcome: low thyroid output.
This alone usually makes the penny drop.I’ve made a Google search with: Less T4 due to paliperidone due to a wrong side effect on thyroid. I’ve done it to spare your energy
Less T4 due to paliperidone due to a wrong side effect on thyroid ?
Yes, paliperidone can cause a decrease in free thyroxine (T4) levels, leading to hypothyroidism. This occurs because paliperidone can cause changes in thyroid function, with a possible mechanism being its effect on dopamine receptors, which can lead to an increase in thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) and a decrease in thyroid hormone levels.
This decrease in T4 is often accompanied by an elevation in thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH).
Mechanism: Dopamine, which is blocked by antipsychotics like paliperidone, can inhibit the thyroid's response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH). Blocking dopamine receptors may lead to a significant increase in TSH levels, which can affect other thyroid hormone levels, including thyroxine T4.
Note: Individual variation: The effect of paliperidone on thyroid function can vary between individuals. The combination of paliperidone with other medications, such as lithium, may increase the risk of thyroid dysfunction. Your doctor should monitor your thyroid function with blood tests while you are taking paliperidone, especially if you have symptoms of a thyroid disorder.My advice: Act as if you were hypo, since the brain consider you are. Optimize the function of thyroid, with useful nutrients (iodine, taken very progressively 250 mcg) (staple 10-15 days). Selenium 100 mcg 3x/wk, before taking I. Magnesium (bisglycinate Mg) to reach 420 – 600 mg/day of mg (2x 2 g powder). If you don’t eat meat, you’ll need zinc (15 mg/d).
See too how to optimize the enzymes deiodinase. No interference with halogens (Cl, Br, Fl) and isothiocyanates from cabbage and the cruciferous family. With moderation is Ok but not at the beginning.
How often the frequency of isothiocyanates from cabbage and the cruciferous family (broccoli, kale, cabbage, corn salad, radish, etc.), in order not to interfere with deiodinase enzymes.
Diodinases
The risk of interference is much higher for people with inadequate iodine intake. If you are iodine deficient, the impact of even moderate consumption of cruciferous vegetables can be significant (at once a day). Raw consumption will have the highest levels of these compounds. Cook your cruciferous vegetables, after having reloaded with Se and I.
What about deiodinase enzymes? (for other forum readers). You can skip the next explanation.Deiodinases are enzymes that control the activity of thyroid hormones by removing iodine atoms. They activate the inactive precursor, thyroxine (T4), to its active form, triiodothyronine (T3) (via D1 and D2 enzymes), or inactivate thyroid hormones to regulate their levels in tissues. There are three types of deiodinases, each with specific functions and locations in the body.
Activation: Deiodinases D1 and D2 convert the pro-hormone T4 into the active hormone T3.
Inactivation: Deiodinase D3 inactivates thyroid hormones and terminates T3 action.
Tissue-specific control: Deiodinases allow each tissue to control its own intracellular thyroid hormone levels independently of circulating levels.
They are crucial for proper development.In summary: You act as if you were hypo, by optimizing the thyroid function. Don’t try to interfere with the balance serotonin and melatonin from the side-effects of paliperidone on TSH.
I can develop if you want more details on why and how the signal is wrong and the answer not appropriate. Need useful nutrients for deiodinase enzymes.
In summary, in short:
A message alone cannot produce T4
Even if the brain shouts louder (“make more T4!”), the thyroid can only do as much as its building blocks and enzymes allow.
And here is where everything becomes very simple:
TSH cannot manufacture iodine.
TSH cannot manufacture selenium.
TSH cannot manufacture zinc or magnesium.
So if the thyroid lacks the essential components, the message cannot be executed.
This looks like hypothyroidism
Acts like hypothyroidism
Feels like hypothyroidism
Is metabolically equivalent to hypothyroidism
Even if the starting point was medication-induced. -
@LucH Thank you for your complete answer. Yes I will act as if I was hypo as the paliperidone increase prolactine so estrogen. I follow already a Peat diet and still have some cynoplus and Cynomel left.
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@Elza said in Reducing antipsychotic effects:
I follow already a Peat diet and still have some cynoplus and Cynomel left.
Not sufficient.
A forumer has recently stated:
I feel better since I’ve recently taken T3.
=> Yes, for a while, when supplementing with synthetic T3 and T4, but if there is insufficiency in Selenium and Iodine, the improvement won’t last long. Why?
Short answer: Bringing synthetic hormone won’t allow the improvement to last if you lack the right nutrients / components for monitoring the production of deiodinase enzymes. See detailed explanation below.Source:
The Effects of Iodine Deficiency on Thyroid Hormone Deiodination. Maria-Jesus Obregon et al. Thyroid Journal 2025. Spain
Deficiency in selenium and iodine can negatively impact thyroid hormone metabolism, even when thyroid hormone supplementation is used. So, even with a synthetic supplementation like with cynoplus and Cynomel.
T4 builds up slowly in the tissues, over about 14 days, but the T3 tunes finely (active form).
If someone uses Cynoplus (contains T4 and T3) and Cynomel (T3 only), sometimes it takes many months to get the metabolic rate stable at a higher level, with several adjustments, referring to your medical practitioner, of course; just to let him know when you change sth. Need staples.
Explanation:
• Deiodinases allow tissues to customize either enhancing or decreasing the intracellular concentration of thyroid hormone at the single-cell level and independently of plasma.
• Deiodinase action is essential to ensure optimal intracellular concentrations of T3 at the single-cell level, in a temporal-dependent window.
Reference: Deiodinases and their intricate role in thyroid hormone homeostasis
2019 DOI https://doi.org/10.1038/s41574-019-0218-2
Comment (LucH):
Selenium is used up when there is HM toxicity or excess ROS. Selenium plays a crucial role in detoxification processes and as an antioxidant, both of which are compromised by these conditions.
Iodine is used up when there are allergy, immune problems, infection... Iodine deficiency is a common health issue, and while not directly linked to allergy, immune problems, or infections, it can affect the body's ability to respond effectively to these conditions. Traditional research suggests that a balanced iodine intake, around 100-300 μg/L of urinary iodine concentration (UIC), is optimal for thyroid function and autoimmunity. But organs such as liver and breast use much more iodine than what traditional research suggests.
The liver is involved in the metabolism of iodine and plays a role in its distribution throughout the body.
The breast is a notable iodine-concentrating organ, with iodine in breast milk being crucial for infant nutrition and potentially involved in breast physiology. Iodine has been observed in various other tissues, including the placenta, stomach, intestines, kidneys, parotid gland, and skin, according to Annals of Thyroid.
NB: Need an additional high intake of vitamin D3 during winter period (50° Lat. North). If > 2 000 IU, we need some K2. Impact of D3 on thyroid integrity:
Useful link (no need to read):
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/d3-supplements-could-halve-the-risk-of-a-second-heart-attack#Focusing-on-individual-D3-needs-to-protect-the-heart
A meager daily dose of 5,000 IU vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) reduced second heart attack risk by 50%+. From Haidut.
Comment (Haidut): [There are] synergistic effects of combining aspirin with vitamin D. Btw, I recently became aware that the vitamin D receptor (VDR) is part of the thyroid hormone receptor subfamily. As such, T3 and vitamin D can activate each other’s receptors, which means vitamin D is a true thyromimetic.
=> Studies show that combining aspirin and vitamin D can have synergistic effects by potentially enhancing anti-proliferative and pro-apoptotic effects. Separately, the vitamin D receptor (VDR) is a nuclear receptor like the thyroid hormone receptor, and while there isn't evidence that vitamin D can directly activate thyroid receptors, they share similarities in their superfamily and activation mechanisms.Useful info:
*) Deiodinases and their intricate role in thyroid hormone homeostasis
2019 DOI https://doi.org/10.1038/s41574-019-0218-2
The deiodinase family of enzymes mediates the activation and inactivation of thyroid hormone. The role of these enzymes in the regulation of the systemic concentrations of thyroid hormone is well established and underpins the treatment of common thyroid diseases.
Key points
• The coordinated action of the hypothalamic–pituitary–thyroid axis and deiodinases is critical to ensure a stable plasma concentration of T3 in euthyroid conditions and to counteract alterations in thyroid hormone levels under pathological conditions.
• Deiodinases allow tissues to customize either enhancing or decreasing the intracellular concentration of thyroid hormone at the single-cell level and independently of plasma.
• Deiodinase action is essential to ensure optimal intracellular concentrations of T3 at the single-cell level, in a temporal-dependent window.
I can develop the role of each nutrients if wanted. -
@LucH thank you for your detailed post. As Peat did not recommend those supplements I wont take them. I think iodine for example is in the food like milk and I drink plenty everyday. I might buy some brazil nuits to get enough selenium. But honestly I am a hardcore Peat follower and his advice makes sense to me.
Any other advice to eliminate or diminish the medication in my blood other than charcoal for example? -
@Elza said in Reducing antipsychotic effects:
Any other advice to eliminate or diminish the medication in my blood
You won’t attenuate side-effects of antipsychotic paliperidone on this way. Nothing to capture. We want to target the effects from thyroid that is under “pressure”. The side-effects are due to an inappropriate metabolism. When optimizing the carburation of the motor, the impact on hormones will be homogenized / balanced. Homeostasis is going to do the rest. No interference with fine tuning is wished.
What you could do is to cherish the liver functioning:
We provide the body with essential nutrients to facilitate homeostasis, its proper functioning. We avoid overloading the system with an aperitif (alcohol), and instead include a healing bone broth on the menu, or a smoothie with organic celery, ginger, and lemon juice. For example. It takes time to fine tune.
Edit:
*) Excess estrogens inhibit thyroid
Estrogen inhibits the conversion of T4 in T3 (active form of thyroid hormone)
http://www.litalee.com/shopexd.asp?id=180
Rita Lee, Ph. Dr “Hypothyroidism - a worldwide epidemic” -
@LucH I have to use laxatif to be able to go to the bathroom. Is there food you can advice so I don’t depend on laxatives? From what I read, my system can become lazy and only work with laxatifs for bowel movements.
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@Elza said in Reducing antipsychotic effects:
I have to use laxatif to be able to go to the bathroom.
We have to take into account 2 situations:
- Urgency
- lazy transit.
If you use too often a laxative (plum juice e.g.), you overdrive the system (less sensitive).
So, we think long term:
a) 30 g (1 oz.) minimum for fibbers. Mainly from veggies, to avoid excess sugar from fruits. I begin my breakfast with 2 fruits. No starch form bread or past / rice. Afterwards one slice Gouda cheese (or ham to change). I often use Greek yoghurt (no imitation from "the Greek way") or cottage cheese (8% fat).
b) Get inform on MMC, when the frequency is not optimal. Lazy transit.
useful info:
The migrating motor complex (MMC)
MMC stands for migrating motor complex
MMC is an electrical and contractile activity of digestive motility which takes place in the inter-digestive periods (= interprandial phase) (between two meals), and interrupted by food intake. Each MMC is accompanied by an increase in gastric, pancreatic and duodenal secretions. They are thought to serve to evacuate contents in the small intestine between meals, and also to transport bacteria from the small intestine into the colon. An alteration of this phase notably favors the development of chronic bacterial colonization of the small intestine, a source in particular of bloating, diarrhea, or even steatorrhea, of the majority of food intolerances. When contractile activity is low, we then speak of lazy intestines. Support and rehabilitation is often necessary, with a prokinetic.
NB 1: I’ve used Resolor 0.5 mg, as prokinetic (1 tablet 1 mg cut into 2 pieces) which is classified as laxative but not used so).
NB2: When the gastro-intestinal problems last for more than 3 months, we have to suppose there is bacterial overgrowth or inappropriate colonic phyla in the second part of the colon. At his point, the need for antibiotic is required (medical assistance).
Rifaximin is the most commonly prescribed antibiotic for small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) and is considered a good option for addressing lazy transit and bacterial overgrowth in the second part of the colon. Rifaximin is often the first-line treatment for SIBO, with studies showing eradication rates of up to 84% (with assistance of a healthcare professional).
NB: Erythromycin, as a prokinetic drug, accelerates gastric emptying in both healthy individuals with normal gastrointestinal function and in patients with critical gastroparesis.
c) --- (optimizing thyroid functioning)
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Correction
Carrot salad is of course useful for chelating excess estrogen. But only once a day, if you don't want to chelate other useful nutrients.
2 ways:- with olive oil to get rid of LPS from killed bacteria (by the immune system or antibiotica).
- with bio apple cider.
NB: To vary, I mix 2 big carrots with one apple, and a pinch of sea salt.
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@LucH I do have the carrot salad with organic white vinegar and coconut oil
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@Elza said in Reducing antipsychotic effects:
do have the carrot salad with organic white vinegar and coconut oil
Coconut oil is fine but to have LPS toxins captured, mufa is best , with olive oil. Macadamia nuts or half a avocado.
