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    The Informal School of Bioenergetics

    Bioenergetic Development
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    • The New SunT
      The New Sun @Kvirion
      last edited by

      @Kvirion
      Woah this something I definitely overlooked and equally important to the material itself, it would be useless without this.

      bradB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • bradB
        brad @The New Sun
        last edited by

        @The-New-Sun He's mentioned the Constance R. Martin textbook for endocrinology before as well, something to add to the list.

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        • BioSB
          BioS
          last edited by

          It is difficult to read ASG without a basic physics and biology background, and impossible to read Ling without an extensive physics and maths one.

          The basics should start with 1. physiology (Physiology, Costanzo; or Text-Book of Physiology, Bikov), 2. biochemistry (Lehninger 1st ed is good), and 3. organic chemistry (Organic chemistry with a biological emphasis). This sets foundational knowledge that is assumed in most of the books that influenced Ray.

          A course on physics that covers classical physics, EM, basic QM, and an introduction to condensed matter is also necessary. I particularly like the three-volume Feynman lectures on Physics. They can probably be read in a year of appropriate effort.

          Then endocrinology (Textbook of endocrinology, CR Martin), histology, and embryology in particular are necessary to understand the far-reaching implications of Ray's work. Ray was very fond of using examples from embryology.

          This is the order that makes the most sense to me, but it can be tedious to put in so much time to master the fundamentals.

          The particular text of choice for the subjects is mostly arbitrary so long as it is easy to read and didactic. I like older ones.

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          • P
            peatyourmeat Banned @BioS
            last edited by

            @BioS dis guy doesnt know about wikipedia πŸ˜‚ πŸ˜‚ πŸ˜‚

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            • P
              peatyourmeat Banned
              last edited by

              embryology is literally just that animals look like other animals as embroys lul

              sphenoidS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • sphenoidS
                sphenoid @peatyourmeat
                last edited by

                @peatyourmeat embryology is useful for discerning the logical hierarchy of system in the body. In the embryo, things of more fundamental importance develop first. For instance, in vertebrates the thyroid gland is the first endocrine organ to develop and does so along with the gills, showing their interdependence for oxidative metabolism.

                D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • JulofEnochJ
                  JulofEnoch @The New Sun
                  last edited by JulofEnoch

                  @The-New-Sun

                  Here's some texts that I've read and/or collected in relation to Peat, bioenergetics, and development.

                  This is not in order. I've put them into little thematic sections with links to downloadable content. I am not an expert on bioenergetics, this is just some of my personal efforts to better understand energy, development, health, and the rest. I do not agree with everything in these texts and reserve my own thoughts, blah blah blah.

                  Many of these are from a Ray Peat library website but some are my own readings and suggestions

                  Pre-study:
                  General Chemistry- Openstax has a good textbook for it.

                  Nutrition: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A Price.

                  Introductory sciences:
                  Cells, Gells, and the Engines of Life- Pollack

                  Cell biology

                  Organic Chemistry- there are textbooks that are organic chemistry specifically for medical students or pre-health students. Libgen has one here.

                  Biochemistry- I would suggest Harper's Illustrated Biochemistry. Libgen has the most recent edition here. I've heard others recommend Biochemistry: A Short Course

                  Anatomy and Physiology- Pretty much anything, there's not much unique between editions save for the level of illustrations.

                  Physics- You can get textbooks that are intros to physics, specifically for health students

                  Water in the Cell by Pollack

                  Living Rainbow: Water by Mae-Won Ho

                  Bioenergetic Sciences: These texts are introductions to bioenergetic science

                  This is a good introductory text to bioenergetics, these authors know their stuff about respiration. There's a section on mitochondria and medical illness towards the end of the book, it's worth it to just read through those.

                  Bioenergetics by Szent-Gyorgi

                  Rainbow and the Worm: A physics of Organisms by Mae-Won Ho

                  Bioenergetics and Bio-Energy: These texts are related to bioenergetics and the formation and impact of bioelectric fields and electromagnetic fields on biology.

                  The Physiology of Bioelectricity in Development, Tissue Regeneration and Cancer

                  Electromagnetics Fields in Biological Systems

                  Epidemiology of Electromagnetic Fields- this book is a look into various studies on the clinical effects of electromagnetic fields. Much of the data is epidemiological but the book also includes dose-control studies and other types of study. Definitely worth reading if you'd like to see a real "state of the literature" look into EMF and health, though it's about a decade out of date.

                  Bioelectronics by Szent-Gyorgi- it's a book by Szent-Gyorgi, it's obv about bioenergetics.

                  Biological effects of magnetic fields by Barnothy Vol.1 and Vol. 2

                  Electromagnetic Field Effects

                  Hormones and Endocrine system: These texts relate to the endocrine system and hormones. This is introduction to thyroid function.

                  Textbook of Endocrine physiology(older)

                  Endocrine Physiology(newer)

                  The Thyroid

                  Endocrine System

                  Exploding the estrogen myth

                  Progestin vs Progesterone for heart health

                  Bioenergetics and development/evolution

                  Embryology

                  Medical Embryology

                  Prenatal stress and development

                  The Emergence of Life

                  Survival of the Wisest

                  Mutual Aid

                  Creative Evolution

                  21st century evolution

                  Prenatal and Postnatal Development

                  Human nutrition

                  Mechanics of digestion

                  Digestion and Health- Cannon was one of Peat's favorite medical physiologists

                  Evolution of meat-eating

                  The Hunting Apes

                  Evolution of the Human Diet

                  Brain evolution and marine and freshwater foods- This is one of the Peatiest books I've ever read, not a sentence is wasted. I encourage everyone to give the authors a fair shake on how they discuss omega-3 and its roles. The authors discuss the evolution of the human diet and discuss multiple times the role of exogenous thyroid hormone consumption on the development of humans generation after generation This book showed me the widespread importance of coastal and freshwater ecosystems and foods for human development and makes me want to bash heads with heavy iron pans for how people treat the oceans, rivers, and seas.

                  Survival of the Fattest- written by one of the editors for the above-mentioned book. It goes into the evolution of human baby fat and how humans have evolved to have uniquely fatty babies. It's well-written.

                  Bioenergetics and Medicine

                  Clinical Bioenergetics

                  Mitochondrial Pathology

                  Clinical Autonomic and Mitochondrial Disorders

                  Mitochondria, drugs, and environmental toxicants

                  Mitochondria in Health and Disease

                  Physiology of Prenatal Exercise and Development

                  Obesity before birth

                  Metabolism of Tumors by Warburg

                  Hypoglycemia by Barnes

                  Hypothyroidism by Barnes

                  Epigenetics of lifestyle

                  Greift nur hinein ins volle Menschenleben! Ein jeder lebt's, nicht vielen ist's bekannt, und wo ihr's packt, da ist's interessant.

                  Ray Peat first-ever interview(July 1987 on UofO Student Radio)

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                  • The New SunT
                    The New Sun
                    last edited by

                    Thank you very much for all the contributions @brad @JulofEnoch @BioS

                    This has helped immensely, thank you again.

                    JulofEnochJ 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • JulofEnochJ
                      JulofEnoch @The New Sun
                      last edited by

                      @The-New-Sun

                      Sure thing.

                      I apologize that I do not have many book resources on endotoxin beyond what's available on libgen. I will say that those texts are technical but not very useful to Peating. I have a post in Literature review about branched-chain fatty acids which has a citation about omega-6 vs branched-chain(saturated) fatty acid endotoxins and how they are quite different in their impact on the body. There's some other good info in that post as well.

                      Idea- It might help to have part of your curriculum around specific claims or health ideas: "what is mitochondria?", "Immunity and fats", diet-heart theory, amyloid-alzheimer's theory, etc. You could make more specific reading suggestions and, more importantly, answer specific questions or concerns.

                      If you'd like, I have a readable and well-sourced book about saturated fat and cholesterol claims ala diet-heart theory. I ran into it around the same time I first heard about Peat, I apologize for not having added it to the list. I'd put it in a "Nutrition" or "Health myths" section. The author, Uffe Ravnskov, has a follow-up book though I admittedly haven't read the whole thing. He has a website, is 89 years old, and is still alive.

                      I like Ravnskov's first book because he goes through the actual cited proof and recommendations of the NIH 1984 "Consensus" conference on diet-heart theory which laid out the first "consensus" about cholesterol, saturated fats, and heart disease. Interestingly, they say that PUFA should be no more than 10% of energy, yet they don't say why. Ravnskov reveals why as that even PUFA advocates have known about the oxidative dangers of PUFA and the interaction between PUFA oxidation, cholesterol, and arterial plaque which really makes the heart disease relationship, not just cholesterol and plaque.

                      Ravnskov cites Scott Grundy(one of THE mainstream cholesterol medical researchers) who's quoted in the reference section that "intakes above 7% of total calories seemingly cannot be advocated with prudence". For the linked study, open the free pdf and keyword search "prudence," it comes right up. If you eat 2500 calories a day or less, that means at most 20 grams of PUFA.

                      Greift nur hinein ins volle Menschenleben! Ein jeder lebt's, nicht vielen ist's bekannt, und wo ihr's packt, da ist's interessant.

                      Ray Peat first-ever interview(July 1987 on UofO Student Radio)

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                      • JulofEnochJ
                        JulofEnoch @The New Sun
                        last edited by

                        @The-New-Sun

                        As an aside, if you're interested in physical chemistry-conceptual, rather than problem set work- and food, then I recommend checking out molecular gastronomy books. Molecular gastronomy is physical chemistry + food science. Protein denaturing, lipids, solvents, etc. are all physical chemistry. I have two recommendations written by Herve This- the founder of molecular gastronomy, a physical chemist.

                        Molecular Gastronomy: Exploring the Science of Flavor by HervΓ© This

                        This is his first book about molecular gastronomy to appear in English. He goes into the physiology of flavor and the chemistry of food. He gives a few recipes including a flourless microwave cake recipe I can personally attest to the quality and ease of. It's approachable and This is, without a doubt, French. He goes into great detail about champagne- something he later wrote an entire book about.

                        Handbook of Molecular Gastronomy: Scientific Foundations, Educational Practices, and Culinary Applications

                        This is exactly what it says, a ~900 page handbook to molecular gastronomy. The book refers to physical chemistry articles you can check out for greater details. It's technical and thorough.

                        This has another book- Cooking: The Quintessential Art

                        French man discussing philosophy and life, a good bit rambling and a good bit thoughtful.

                        Cooking and eating are very Peaty activities, the most intimate way we interact with the world- taking it into us, making ourselves from it, over time replacing entire organs and tissues with the world and its contents.

                        Greift nur hinein ins volle Menschenleben! Ein jeder lebt's, nicht vielen ist's bekannt, und wo ihr's packt, da ist's interessant.

                        Ray Peat first-ever interview(July 1987 on UofO Student Radio)

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                        • D
                          DavDaDawg @sphenoid
                          last edited by

                          @sphenoid Holy fuck

                          JulofEnochJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • JulofEnochJ
                            JulofEnoch @DavDaDawg
                            last edited by

                            @DavDaDawg @The-New-Sun

                            He's right. Thyroid forms within first month in humans alongside heart and lungs.

                            The brain doesn't develop a blood-brain barrier until the third trimester. Until then, the brain is a direct-to-blood endocrine organ. It begins actively secreting signaling molecules and regulating endocrine development from the first moments of brain cell existence.

                            Brain, thyroid, CO2, oxygen- Peaty areas of focus and the first embryo developments.

                            Greift nur hinein ins volle Menschenleben! Ein jeder lebt's, nicht vielen ist's bekannt, und wo ihr's packt, da ist's interessant.

                            Ray Peat first-ever interview(July 1987 on UofO Student Radio)

                            sphenoidS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • sphenoidS
                              sphenoid @JulofEnoch
                              last edited by

                              @JulofEnoch Arising from the gills are the neck muscles and first respiratory muscles in humans, the sternocleidomastoid and trapezius. These are innervated by the accessory nerve which can be thought of as an extension of the vagus nerve since they share such a close relationship. The thyroid is also innervated by the vagus nerve, which controls blood supply to the organ, eventually determining its ability to produce and secrete its hormones. I think this is glossed over a lot in the Peat sphere but proper breathing --which requires activation of the SCM and trapezius-- is the gatekeeper to thyroid function. It also influences craniosacral rhythm as these muscles are some of the main drivers in skull motility.

                              JulofEnochJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • JulofEnochJ
                                JulofEnoch @sphenoid
                                last edited by

                                @sphenoid

                                True, vagus nerve stimulation can increase the release of thyroid hormones and sympathovagal imbalance is linked with thyroid dysregulation.

                                Gatekeeper? I don't know, never did like the term's usage, too dramatic- that being said, the health impact of proper breathing and focused breathwork cannot be discredited and I wouldn't be surprised at a long-term effect of para/sympathetic breathwork on thyroid health,.

                                Greift nur hinein ins volle Menschenleben! Ein jeder lebt's, nicht vielen ist's bekannt, und wo ihr's packt, da ist's interessant.

                                Ray Peat first-ever interview(July 1987 on UofO Student Radio)

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • The New SunT
                                  The New Sun
                                  last edited by The New Sun

                                  @JulofEnoch Thank you very much for such detailed and insightful replies. I have been spending time writing and organizing a lot of the material.

                                  As a beginner, I will be studying a major portion of the subjects before I can post anything. It's gonna take me a while, mainly because the aim is to have a full written document with all resources available, a concrete rubric for those interested to learn.

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                                  • BuckianB
                                    Buckian
                                    last edited by Buckian

                                    Following!

                                    @Kvirion - very important consideration!

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