Temperatures

Kilgore

“Oral or armpit temperature, in the morning before getting out of bed, should be around 98F, and it should rise to 98.6F by mid-morning... Healthy populations have an average resting pulse of about 85 per minute. Especially in hot weather it is useful to consider both temperature and pulse rate.” — Ray Peat
Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation None of the listed symptoms of hypothyroidism apply to me.

I measured my temperatures over the week:

Morning is ALWAYS: 97.5 F / 36.4 C
Throughout the day it goes up to: 98.6 F / 37 C (not mid morning tough...)
Pulse rate is around 85/minute.

Is the morning temperature too far away from ideal or is this fine? I live in Vancouver.

yerrag

@Kilgore It looks good as far as temperature is concerned.

But relying on temperature alone is not enough. I prefer to use two other free (or cheaper) proxies for testing thyroid status instead of the expensive thyroid panel (using TSH, T3, T4 and the reverse T3), as it's expensive (especially rT3, which conventional doctors don't use). The other three markers are used by conventional doctors, but are so inaccurate that it's easy to get a false negative on hypothyroidism.

Also helps to not rely too much on temperature as having a persistently internal load of bacteria couldnput tour immune under a chronic state of alertness that raises temperaturem This may lead one to conclude he is euthyroid when he really is hypothyroid.

Kilgore

@yerrag said in Temperatures:

. I prefer to use two other free (or cheaper) proxies for testing thyroid status

Do I just go to the doctor and ask for these? Ask for what exactly?

@Kilgore said in Temperatures:

“Oral or armpit temperature, in the morning before getting out of bed, should be around 98F, and it should rise to 98.6F by mid-morning... Healthy populations have an average resting pulse of about 85 per minute. Especially in hot weather it is useful to consider both temperature and pulse rate.” — Ray Peat
Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation None of the listed symptoms of hypothyroidism apply to me.

I measured my temperatures over the week:

Morning is ALWAYS: 97.5 F / 36.4 C
Throughout the day it goes up to: 98.6 F / 37 C (not mid morning tough...)
Pulse rate is around 85/minute.

Is the morning temperature too far away from ideal or is this fine? I live in Vancouver.

I think your temperatures look just fine. Higher temps upon waking up (98.6 for example) can be the result of high cortisol. That happened to me. I was diagnosed 35+ years ago as being hypothyroid, so I know that I have that problem, but my cortisol was high too which made relying on waking temps tricky. Look for a rise in temperature after you eat in the morning. Peat said that assuming you ate the right thing that your temperature should rise after eating. It's real helpful to own an accurate thermometer. The digital ones are just terrible.

If you have evaluated your symptoms for signs of hypothyroidism, and you don't think it's a fit then you are probably fine. My symptoms included: lethargy, weakness, brain fog, needing to go back to sleep at 10:00am, inflammation, constipation, etc.

If you feel that you want a doctor to help you, a good shortcut to finding a doctor who has any idea what they're doing is to ask your friendly pharmacist which doctors are prescribing NP Thyroid made by Acella. It's the one I take. It's a desiccated thyroid product that actually works. My 82+ year old endocrinologist who has over 50 years of experience told me that it works just like the old Armour Thyroid used to work. He prescribes it for a lot of his patients.

yerrag

@Kilgore said in Temperatures:

@yerrag said in Temperatures:

. I prefer to use two other free (or cheaper) proxies for testing thyroid status

Do I just go to the doctor and ask for these? Ask for what exactly?

For the Achilles tendon reflex test, it's a bit tricky as you need someone to hit your Achilles tendon with a neuro hammer and observe the speed of the reflex. If you don't trust the person to make a judgment on the reflex speed, you can record a video of it and make a judgment yourself.
Since this is an old method, it is rare to see doctors using this method unless he is a naturopath, but not all naturopaths know this either. The physical therapists that use a neuro hammer don't know how to use this to test this either. So you to DIY and when you use it you may find there is a learning curve needed, and once you feel confident in it, you still have to teach someone to do it on you. I have that predicament, so I opted to use an ECG that can calculate the QTc value for me.

The QTc is a measurement of how fast the heart relaxes after it contracts, expressed in milliseconds. The heart is a muscle and works like any other muscle in that it contracts and relaxes, and the muscle relaxes fast enough after contracting. When it relaxes too slowly, you are low in energy and are hypothyroid and when too quickly, you are hyperthyroid. I asked Ray Peat what value constitutes being euthyroid (normal) and asked if 440 msec is normal, and he just told me it is lower than that. So I have to just make a practical range to work with, based on measuring a sample of readings I've taken from myself to friends and family, and I consider 380 - 420 msec to be euthyroid, but that is my opinion and not set in stone. Someone else more knowledgeable likely will beg to differ.

I use a personal ECG monitor that calculates automatically the QTc value as well as show a graph. Looking at the graph, I can confirm whether the calculated QTc value is correct, as I can see the QTc calculation being off. The device I use costs in the neighborhood of $100, and has its limitations. It definitely lacks the accuracy of ECGs used in diagnostic labs and in doctor:s offices, but gives me enough guidance. To be certain, I would from time to time go to a diagnostics lab where I could get a more accurate reading. But you can't just walk in on a lab and ask for an ECG in the US. You need a cardiologist to do an ECG test of their prescription for a lab to do it. Well, that is the law in the much ballyhooed "rules-based" society we are under.

Kilgore

@mostlylurking said in Temperatures:

I think your temperatures look just fine

Good to know. On the other hand I checked my pulse rate at the pharmacy today and it was 104 and 96. What does that signal. Also, would taking t3 (tyromix) give me any benefits if I don't have these bad conditions?

It's real helpful to own an accurate thermometer.

Will get one. My digital is all over the place.

Hopefully you are all well now!

Kilgore

@yerrag said in Temperatures:

The QTc is a measurement of how fast the heart relaxes after it contracts, expressed in milliseconds. The heart is a muscle and works like any other muscle in that it contracts and relaxes, and the muscle relaxes fast enough after contracting. When it relaxes too slowly, you are low in energy and are hypothyroid and when too quickly, you are hyperthyroid. I asked Ray Peat what value constitutes being euthyroid (normal) and asked if 440 msec is normal, and he just told me it is lower than that. So I have to just make a practical range to work with, based on measuring a sample of readings I've taken from myself to friends and family, and I consider 380 - 420 msec to be euthyroid, but that is my opinion and not set in stone. Someone else more knowledgeable likely will beg to differ.

I use a personal ECG monitor that calculates automatically the QTc value as well as show a graph. Looking at the graph, I can confirm whether the calculated QTc value is correct, as I can see the QTc calculation being off. The device I use costs in the neighborhood of $100, and has its limitations. It definitely lacks the accuracy of ECGs used in diagnostic labs and in doctor:s offices, but gives me enough guidance. To be certain, I would from time to time go to a diagnostics lab where I could get a more accurate reading. But you can't just walk in on a lab and ask for an ECG in the US. You need a cardiologist to do an ECG test of their prescription for a lab to do it. Well, that is the law in the much ballyhooed "rules-based" society we are under.

Thank you for this explanation. Will give the personal device a try sometime.
Question for you as well. Since I don't have any of the hypothyroid symptoms would taking something like TyroMix (T3/T4) give me any benefits?

@Kilgore said in Temperatures:

@mostlylurking said in Temperatures:

I think your temperatures look just fine

Good to know. On the other hand I checked my pulse rate at the pharmacy today and it was 104 and 96. What does that signal. Also, would taking t3 (tyromix) give me any benefits if I don't have these bad conditions?

I don't know. But here's Ray Peat on pulse.

It's real helpful to own an accurate thermometer.

Will get one. My digital is all over the place.

Hopefully you are all well now!

Yes, I'm doing a lot better. I need to lose some weight that sneaked up on me while sitting at this computer though. It's always something....

Kilgore

@mostlylurking Go out for a walk.

Kilgore

@mostlylurking said in Temperatures:

I don't know. But here's Ray Peat on pulse.

Thanks.

@Kilgore said in Temperatures:

@mostlylurking Go out for a walk.

My plate is pretty full at the moment with fertilizing my roses (86 at last count; I got carried away). I also get to assist in the sprinkler installation, keep the stuff in the greenhouse alive, plant about 100+ plants in the garden. The usual stuff. There is a nice road for walking though. Maybe I should make the time to do that. Thanks!

Kilgore

@mostlylurking I do walk almost everyday. Cleans the mind. Gardening does that too though.

@Kilgore said in Temperatures:

@mostlylurking I do walk almost everyday. Cleans the mind. Gardening does that too tough.

I've had a few physical issues with my left hip joint and my knees, which along with the winter weather, discouraged me from my daily exercise routine that I really do have to do to keep my body working. I'm female, 74. So I did most of the routine this morning and I already feel a little more energetic. Thanks for the nudge.

I've got to get my muscles back again to make the gardening safer. It's compost time which means I get to spread multiple front end loaders worth of compost or I'll be fighting the weeds in the coming hot weather. It's been in the 80's the past few days (it's still February) so summer should be a shocker.

Kilgore

@mostlylurking said in Temperatures:

It's been in the 80's the past few days (it's still February) so summer should be a shocker.

I'm in the Pacific North West and the whole winter was extremely mild, snow 3-4 times overall, wore shorts until late December. I fear we will have a summer with frequent forest fires again.

I've had a few physical issues with my left hip joint and my knees, which along with the winter weather, discouraged me from my daily exercise routine that I really do have to do to keep my body working. I'm female, 74. So I did most of the routine this morning and I already feel a little more energetic. Thanks for the nudge.

Hopefully you feel better. Exercise is so important especially at old age. 6 of my great grand parents lived 90+ and what they all had in common is spending a lot of time outdoors on the fresh air, walking (until they died), drank a lot of milk and ate a lot of cheese and didn't stress over anything. All of them were fine both physically and mentally until their deaths.

@Kilgore said in Temperatures:

@mostlylurking said in Temperatures:

It's been in the 80's the past few days (it's still February) so summer should be a shocker.

I'm in the Pacific North West and the whole winter was extremely mild, snow 3-4 times overall, wore shorts until late December. I fear we will have a summer with frequent forest fires again.

I'm in central Texas. We've been in a horrible drought since 2007. Last summer was awful. But the fall was pretty great; I still had roses blooming the first of January. There's over 200,000 acres in the Texas pan handle on fire right now.

I've had a few physical issues with my left hip joint and my knees, which along with the winter weather, discouraged me from my daily exercise routine that I really do have to do to keep my body working. I'm female, 74. So I did most of the routine this morning and I already feel a little more energetic. Thanks for the nudge.

Hopefully you feel better. Exercise is so important especially at old age. 6 of my great grand parents lived 90+ and what they all had in common is spending a lot of time outdoors on the fresh air, walking (until they died), drank a lot of milk and ate a lot of cheese and didn't stress over anything. All of them were fine both physically and mentally until their deaths.

Thanks. I think the ability to not stress over anything is key. My father lived to be 95; he often said he never stressed about anything. I've found that my supplementing with high dose thiamine hcl has given me that personality trait. It seems that stress is directly related to inadequate metabolic energy. Thiamine and magnesium are very important for stress reduction.

Thiamine leads to oxidative stress resistance via regulation of the glucose metabolism

Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

yerrag

@Kilgore

I've used both Tyromix (T3 and T4) and Tyronene (T3 only) and I've seen my QTc become higher (more hypothyroid or lower metabolism) when I use Tyromix. OTOH, my QTc became lower then I use Tyronene. I'm told that it could be that I have already enough T4 endogenously, and that taking it will only increase my reverse T3 (as T4 can convert to rT3). That would explain the difference in my experience with the two products.

But I normally don't use them. But it's handy to have Tyronene in my case as I would use a drop once in a while to see if it would improve my blood sugar regulation especially after meals when I would experience a slight dip beyond normal that gets me into the doldrums. Going into hypoglycemic levels if only a short while is enough to destroy the continuous flow of energy that comes with a continual unbroken supply of T3 and when the thyroid and liver's supply of T3 is broken, it becomes the weakest link at that moment that destroys the cohesive chain of reactions that comprise mitocho0ndrial oxidation. It's like a factory shutting down a process making widgets if only to fix a loose chain. Everything has to be stopped and starting up again from idle isn't instantaneous.

There may be other personal ECGs out there that are better. but the one I got works for me as it meets my minimum requirement, that it has PC software that can compute the QTc value and I can store a history of it. While the documentation is lacking and the design isn't touch screen and the interface appears dated, it costs less than a hundred dollars and the accuracy of readings isn't far off from better ECGs in diagnostic labs. It doesn't give me a full ECG graph, but it suffices. Besides, I can only do rudimentary interpretation and a full-fledged graph is overkill for me.

Like I said, the documentation is sorely lacking and it took me a while to get the hang of using it by being persistent. It isn't that intuitive to use. The unit is an FL20 you can buy from its website www.,facelake.com Amazon has it too but at the time of purchase, it costs more to buy from Amazon.

yerrag

@Kilgore said in Temperatures:

@yerrag said in Temperatures:

@yerrag said in Temperatures:

The QTc is a measurement of how fast the heart relaxes after it contracts, expressed in milliseconds. The heart is a muscle and works like any other muscle in that it contracts and relaxes, and the muscle relaxes fast enough after contracting. When it relaxes too slowly, you are low in energy and are hypothyroid and when too quickly, you are hyperthyroid. I asked Ray Peat what value constitutes being euthyroid (normal) and asked if 440 msec is normal, and he just told me it is lower than that. So I have to just make a practical range to work with, based on measuring a sample of readings I've taken from myself to friends and family, and I consider 380 - 420 msec to be euthyroid, but that is my opinion and not set in stone. Someone else more knowledgeable likely will beg to differ.

I use a personal ECG monitor that calculates automatically the QTc value as well as show a graph. Looking at the graph, I can confirm whether the calculated QTc value is correct, as I can see the QTc calculation being off. The device I use costs in the neighborhood of $100, and has its limitations. It definitely lacks the accuracy of ECGs used in diagnostic labs and in doctor:s offices, but gives me enough guidance. To be certain, I would from time to time go to a diagnostics lab where I could get a more accurate reading. But you can't just walk in on a lab and ask for an ECG in the US. You need a cardiologist to do an ECG test of their prescription for a lab to do it. Well, that is the law in the much ballyhooed "rules-based" society we are under.

Thank you for this explanation. Will give the personal device a try sometime.
Question for you as well. Since I don't have any of the hypothyroid symptoms would taking something like TyroMix (T3/T4) give me any benefits?

Using Tyronene (T3) only is what I would using TyroMIx may give you an excess of T4 which gets converted to rT3 at times, and that would be counterproductive. Reverse T3 counters T3. You can start with a drop and maybe you can start observing some changes in your temperature when you wake up, or you may feel more energy. Try it different times, like before you go to bed, or before you have lunch. You may get a more restful sleep, or you may find that you no longer feel sleepy after lunch and need siesta during the mid-day doldrums.

Kilgore

@yerrag
Sorry, I forgot to get back to you! Thanks for all the info!
I think as I adopt more dietary changes and as my body changes I will know if I need this or not. You are right about that.

The unit is an FL20 you can buy from its website www.,facelake.com Amazon has it too but at the time of purchase, it costs more to buy from Amazon.

Thank you!

yerrag

@Kilgore Sure!