Glucose loading cures everything?

[S.Holmes]

@Ecstatic_Hamster Thank you for the report. I'm really trying to figure out why our temps have responded well while others' haven't. It's so odd that my husband and I have had the same rise in temp. Neither of us were on thyroid when this happened. (We take a tiny bit now.) Such a mystery.

[S.Holmes]

@sharko Gotta agree with Gentle Potato. These comments are presumptuous and offensive:

This is not suitable for bioenergetic research. Instead, it would have been more appropriate to look in depth at why it works differently than other methods, as some have done here.

And, to say that for 20 years you did everything according to Ray Peat and nothing worked the way this protocol works, is a bit of an understatement, when in practice you simply didn't study the science he revealed to us in enough depth.

I have all of Dr Peat's books, and many of his newsletters (and have read them all). He even says women who had migraines in their teens will likely go into irreversible decline at menopause. This would be me. He doesn't provide a solution for this, so I just keep looking. Dr. Peat would approve.

[sharko]

@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

@sharko I don't think anyone is hurt, but we're at least a few people voicing that the vibe isn't helpful or okay. There's a difference between challenging someone's hypothesis, and judging what logic they're allowed to follow, and what is serious and not serious. I made my point to say you come across as judgemental; some contemplation about how you can communicate differently might be necessary if you want to come across in a different way.

@sharko said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

And, to say that for 20 years you did everything according to Ray Peat and nothing worked the way this protocol works, is a bit of an understatement, when in practice you simply didn't study the science he revealed to us in enough depth.

This, to me, is very unnecessary and an example of some shit communication. It's a judgemental take, that lacks compassion and humility. It also lacks the acknowledgement that even if we study the science "in enough depth" that does not mean it will work for us.

Something that isn't talked about enough in the RP world is why so many women don't get better following these principles. I'm gonna guess you're a male? And if not, maybe you've been luckier than others, because as I've mentioned before I see so many women in RP world doing everything you can expect, and understand the RP approach very well, and still not get better. The last thing we need is people telling us stuff like your quote above.

I'm afraid it's because I don't speak English and it comes out crooked. I got it and I didn't mean to

[S.Holmes]

@sharko said

I'm afraid it's because I don't speak English and it comes out crooked. I got it and I didn't mean to

Good to know! Kudos for your efforts!

[sharko]

@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

@sharko Gotta agree with Gentle Potato. These comments are presumptuous and offensive:

This is not suitable for bioenergetic research. Instead, it would have been more appropriate to look in depth at why it works differently than other methods, as some have done here.

And, to say that for 20 years you did everything according to Ray Peat and nothing worked the way this protocol works, is a bit of an understatement, when in practice you simply didn't study the science he revealed to us in enough depth.

I have all of Dr Peat's books, and many of his newsletters (and have read them all). He even says women who had migraines in their teens will likely go into irreversible decline at menopause. This would be me. He doesn't provide a solution for this, so I just keep looking. Dr. Peat would approve.

I was in such a low state, my body was crumbling from the inside. I would not have been able to get out of this without additional substances, beyond nutrition.

For example, have you used something that strongly inhibits serotonin and estrogen, like cypro?

Anyway, pure glucose is very interesting! But maybe it's not right to go all-in according to the protocol and instead, carefully integrate it as part of a complete treatment, while understanding the implications.

I believe that pushing a weak body more amounts of glucose than it is able to burn regularly, can come with many risks such as blood vessel leakage, kidney damage, excessive blood thinning and more.

Glucose is one of the most protective components in the body, beyond its use as the main fuel and maybe it is so magical that it can also help to repair the damage caused by its load in the blood, but maybe not...

Science gives us estimates about the amount of glucose that the body can use effectively when it is in an optimal state, but if a person has a very fatty liver and most of his cells burn fat, the numbers are much lower and to find them out, you have to use measurements of sugar in the blood or urine.

[S.Holmes]

@sharko said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

@sharko Gotta agree with Gentle Potato. These comments are presumptuous and offensive:

This is not suitable for bioenergetic research. Instead, it would have been more appropriate to look in depth at why it works differently than other methods, as some have done here.

And, to say that for 20 years you did everything according to Ray Peat and nothing worked the way this protocol works, is a bit of an understatement, when in practice you simply didn't study the science he revealed to us in enough depth.

I have all of Dr Peat's books, and many of his newsletters (and have read them all). He even says women who had migraines in their teens will likely go into irreversible decline at menopause. This would be me. He doesn't provide a solution for this, so I just keep looking. Dr. Peat would approve.

I was in such a low state, my body was crumbling from the inside. I would not have been able to get out of this without additional substances, beyond nutrition.

For example, have you used something that strongly inhibits serotonin and estrogen, like cypro?

Anyway, pure glucose is very interesting! But maybe it's not right to go all-in according to the protocol and instead, carefully integrate it as part of a complete treatment, while understanding the implications.

I believe that pushing a weak body more amounts of glucose than it is able to burn regularly, can come with many risks such as blood vessel leakage, kidney damage, excessive blood thinning and more.

Glucose is one of the most protective components in the body, beyond its use as the main fuel and maybe it is so magical that it can also help to repair the damage caused by its load in the blood, but maybe not...

Science gives us estimates about the amount of glucose that the body can use effectively when it is in an optimal state, but if a person has a very fatty liver and most of his cells burn fat, the numbers are much lower and to find them out, you have to use measurements of sugar in the blood or urine.

Could you move this discussion to another thread in the forum please? Thank you.

[LetTheRedeemed]

This post is deleted!

[S.Holmes]

This post is deleted!

[sharko]

This post is deleted!

[CrumblingCookie]

Update:

As I'm continueing with P5P 25mg with every glucose serving, I've come to notice a surge in folate requirements and have since added 3x 1mg methyl-folate every day.
(I've also come to notice a significant surge in daily protein cravings. Which seems fair given P5P's crucial role in protein tolerability and utilization).

I've found this 1976 bit of info.
These are some serious, real clinical findings from back then. Regarding the required doses there was certainly an issue from using folic acid (clogging up the pathways) instead of using folinic acid or folate.
Nevertheless, there may be a need to cast far aside the Peatarian cancer-focused condemnation of methyl groups and methylfolate when it comes to necessary restoration. There's probably implications of very high gradients being needed to pass the necessary amounts through an impaired intestinal barrier. Which seems to improve in a significant share of patients. Perhaps the others who missed out on improvements needed the glucose, B1 or P5P along with it?
The blood--brain-barrier appears to be narrowly focused on the cerebral folate receptor-a (FR-a) which can be inhibited from birth (genetically) or by autoimmune events. Depleted liver folate stores in chronic disease states, especially those of the liver, would be more widespread.

There's an under-appreciated link between folate and

1. carbohydrate tolerability,
2. unrecognized/atypical malabsorption by jejunal villous atrophy shown as a long-standing gastrointestinal disease usually only diagnosed as "functional", "psychosomatic", "spasmodic colitis", "irritable colon" or similar.
3. depression or an especially wide range of concurrently afflicting neuropsychiatric symptoms.

Folate deficiency and neurological disease
"The classical triad of steatorrhea, abnormal jejunal biopsy and abnormal d-xylose
absorption test (30) is replaced in our cases by another triad,
i.e. constipation, abnormal jejunal biopsy andabnormal d-xylose absorption (15, 23).
However, every patient met at least one of the criteria of disturbed
absorption. In 14 cases there-was a flat glucose and lactose
tolerance curve. In 6 patients on being treated for 6 months
with folic acid, the curves became normal. In three other
patients folate deficiency was accompanied by a glucose
tolerance curve suggestive of hyperactive hypoglycemia;
after 7 and 12 months of folic acid treatment the biological
syndrome of hyperactive hypoglycemia disappeared in two
of them, subsided in the remaining one. This possible cor-
relation between carbohydrate and folate metabolism seems
to be of special interest as a stimulus to further research,
In this respect a 42 year old woman with intolerance of
dietary carbohydrate and mild anemia has been reported as
having elevated urinary formiminoglutamate (FIGLU) ex-
cretion: she improved with combined folate therapy and a
reduction in dietary carbohydrate (31)"

"It is essential to stress that in all cases from this group
small amounts of folic acid (5 to 10 mg daily) were not
effective; only 30-40 mg of folic acid by mouth daily
(patients without jejunal atrophy) or 20-30 mg by mouth
and 15 mg parenterally daily in (15 patients with a subtotal
or partial jejunal atrophy) were effective. The first beneficial
therapeutical responses could be observed only after
treatment for three or four weeks in hospital, with regular
monitoring of plasma BIZ, hematologic parameters and
clinical reevaluation."

[Ecstatic_Hamster]

@CrumblingCookie that is a huge dose of folate.

[LetTheRedeemed]

@Ecstatic_Hamster before you know it the experimenters will have engineered a complete beef liver from synthetics for maximum scientific health

[CrumblingCookie]

@Ecstatic_Hamster said:

that is a huge dose of folate.

Mind-bogglingly huge!
From what I could read, neuropsychiatric improvements from restoring cerebral folate sufficiency is a veeeeeery slow and a gradual process.
In other cases where 15mg folic acid daily was used, improvements only became evident 9 months later. With further, significant improvements 18 months later. And things still improving 39 months later.
And many of those reported cases really weren't attributable to genetics but were all secondary due to long-standing "innocuous" conditions like poor diet, alcoholism, hepatic diseases.
Crazy.

For me, that's really essential to know that a finding of low serum folate does not become resolved after a few weeks of supplementation and a good follow-up serum folate lab. I've had some low serum levels stretched over several years in the past. Which I wrongly considered over and sufficiently dealt with.

The 3x 1mg folate makes me feel more sleepy - similiar to when I started (or raised) the glucose servings except now it's only in the mornings up to the early afternoons and not all day. Apart from that I notice no drawbacks.
Whereas without P5P and glucose I remember very well that any large amount of folate made me feel weirded-out and uncomfortably light-headed.

Overall, this fosters my suspected trajectory: That taking dextrose by itself is not enough to fix everything but that it is a crucial element to regeneration and also demands reevaluation of previously tried measures and supplements to finally unfurl their eluded benefits.

[A Former User]

Has Dr. Stevens treated anyone with severe autism? A family member of mine is 31, severely autistic, non verbal and sometimes bangs his head, necessitating a helmet at times. He is extremely sensitive to many things, his mother has given up on any detox, the reactions to even some B vitamins can be extreme. I haven't read Dr. Stevens book, but am wondering if glucose could help someone like him or if it could trigger too much detox. He is having trouble walking at this point and his mother is losing hope.

[Ecstatic_Hamster]

@Sippy I don't know. But I would probably try it. Dr. Stephens may actually reinforce this, who knows, because he has used it apparently with people who had all sorts of brain issues. He really points to all problems as originating in the brain, resulting in hyperglycolysis, resulting in throttling of glucose, resulting in...all sorts of mental illness and issues. So yeah. Yeah. And I can't see how it would cause harm.

[S.Holmes]

@Sippy said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

Has Dr. Stevens treated anyone with severe autism? A family member of mine is 31, severely autistic, non verbal and sometimes bangs his head, necessitating a helmet at times. He is extremely sensitive to many things, his mother has given up on any detox, the reactions to even some B vitamins can be extreme. I haven't read Dr. Stevens book, but am wondering if glucose could help someone like him or if it could trigger too much detox. He is having trouble walking at this point and his mother is losing hope.

It's definitely worth a try.

[gentlepotato]

@Sippy
Short answer: Yes, i think it can be helpful.

Longer musing: I think people who are neurodivergent and already have issues with neurotransmitters are at higher risk for trouble with the Itaconate shunt, because it causes the GABA shunt, which leads to neurotransmitters being used for ATP instead of what they're supposed to be used for.

There's also a strange phenomenon with autism where people have seen symptoms disappear when they have a fever. If symptoms disappear when the Itaconate shunt is not actived (the fever may indicate the adaptive immune system is activated), maybe debilitating autism is "just" another manifestation (one of many) of the Itaconate shunt (the innate immune system not letting the adaptive immune system do it's job).

(Edit: Actually not sure that a fever may indicate the adaptive immune system is activated; I just very rarely have a fever since my Itaconate shunt issues started - and on the rare occasion I have a fever I've experienced certain symptoms get better. Here's an article about the phenomenon: https://news.mit.edu/2024/understanding-why-autism-symptoms-sometimes-improve-amid-fever-0523)

Hope they can find some relief, it sounds challenging.

[bot-mod]

@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

Here's an article about the phenomenon: https://news.mit.edu/2024/understanding-why-autism-symptoms-sometimes-improve-amid-fever-0523

"developmentally determined" hmm

@ThinPicking said in Propranolol, agression & autism:

Maybe Wakefield was right

@sippy have a read of that thread and the blog link. After GPs insight there.

[GlucoseOrBust]

This post is deleted!

[Kilgore]

Bumping this thread. I want to see MORE!