Social defeat and how to overcome it: 7,8-Dihydroxyflavone and BDNF

[CrumblingCookie]

@Mauritio Thanks, but I might be too CAS myself rn to wrap my head around this. So the increased BDNF from (early) life stress is a reactive marker? And would serotonin be even higher if it weren't for the (initially) reactive increase in BDNF? Put more narratively: Is the increase in BDNF as a response to (early) life stress an effort of an escape mechanism, by increasing neuroplasticity to curiously find out better ways to cope with the environments?
And then practically, and paraphrasing the quote above, if we were to take 7,8-Dihydroxyflavone to raise BDNF again: Would that merely further entrench and enhance the previously adopted early life stress when in lack of opportunities or an overall positive and safe environment or at least situational and strategic awareness with distinctive goals?
So essentially proper self-flagellation without the latter beneficial/productive prerequisites?

[Mauritio]

@CrumblingCookie said in Social defeat and how to overcome it: 7,8-Dihydroxyflavone and BDNF:

And would serotonin be even higher if it weren't for the (initially) reactive increase in BDNF?

I don't know. This thread is more about 718-DHF, which seems to lower serotonin is higher doses.

@CrumblingCookie said in Social defeat and how to overcome it: 7,8-Dihydroxyflavone and BDNF:

Is the increase in BDNF as a response to (early) life stress an effort of an escape mechanism, by increasing neuroplasticity to curiously find out better ways to cope with the environments?

Yes, I think so. Maybe that's why both progesterone + Estrogen increase BDNF .E increases it as a survival mechanism and maybe prog as a reactionto a stimulating environ­ment.

@CrumblingCookie said in Social defeat and how to overcome it: 7,8-Dihydroxyflavone and BDNF:

Would that merely further entrench and enhance the previously adopted early life stress when in lack of opportunities or an overall positive and safe environment or at least situational and strategic awareness with distinctive goals?

I don't think so. This study shows that BDNF makes you more resilient.

[Mauritio]

This study shows 7, 8-DHF is an aromatase inhibitor. Although in-vitro so take it with a grain of salt, but still positive.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1533021/?page=3

[CrumblingCookie]

@Mauritio
Interesting. From what I could scan it appears 7,8-Dihydroxyflavone lowers overall estrogen levels whilst upregulating quantity and (ligand-independent) activation of estrogen receptors.
What are any natural dietary sources for 7,8-Dihydroxyflavone?
Are you going to take it?

[Mauritio]

@CrumblingCookie I already took it and it definitely increased my mental capacity and was stimulating to the brain as well.

[CrumblingCookie]

@Mauritio
Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity, 2018

7,8-DHF rather than Dihexa may be a less controversial thing to take in order to attain the same kind of nootropic effect.
It looks really good indeed overall for synaptogenesis (top),
even in comparison to dimethoxy-4-iodoamphetamine (DOI), LSD or DMT (bottom):

[lobotomize]

@CrumblingCookie hair loss on it may be a thing

[Lejeboca]

@Mauritio said:

This thread is more about 718-DHF, which seems to lower serotonin is higher doses

Just to clarify that the cerebellum BDNF apparently has different functional roles than the hippocampus BDNF does:

• From Pleiotropic effects of BDNF on the cerebellum and hippocampus: Implications for neurodevelopmental disorders

" After birth, BDNF acts in the cerebellum as a mitogenic and chemotactic factor, stimulating the cerebellar granule cell precursors to proliferate, migrate and maturate, while in the hippocampus BDNF plays a fundamental role in synaptic transmission and plasticity, representing a key regulator for the long-term potentiation, learning and memory."

• In the "socially non-defeated" mice, BDNF is most prominent in the cerebellum as compared with other brain areas:
  From Cerebellar BDNF Promotes Exploration and Seeking for Novelty [mentioned in a prior post of this thread]:

[CrumblingCookie]

@lobotomize said:

@CrumblingCookie hair loss on it may be a thing

Oh I hadn't known, nor would I have ever suspected, that hair loss is a thing with increased BDNF, generally.
In the face of that I suppose my BDNF levels are already through the roof and do not need augmenting o.O

"Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor Inhibits Hair Shaft Elongation, Induces Catagen, and Stimulates Follicular Transforming Growth Factor β2 Expression"

"BDNF/TrkB shortens the anagen phase via raising transforming growth factor β2 (TGFβ2), resulting in a faster catagen phase (early hairloss)."

[lobotomize]

@CrumblingCookie it isnt direct the only evidence for bdnf caused hair loss is in animal models so take that statment with a grain of glucose