2-Oxa Tren has been replaced with Non-methylated OXANDROLONE
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In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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@jamezb46 thx
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@jamezb46 haidut certainly will not be selling 2-Oxa methyl tren XD. Methyl tren is probably one of the most liver toxic chemicals known to man.
Methyl trenbolone in doses as low as 100mcg a day have shown to be hepatoxic in humans.
That makes me think, what was the hormone Haidut was comparing 2-oxa trenbolone to, to judge its androgenicity? Trenbolone itself too is less androgenic and anabolic than methyl testosterone, when both are administered orally, but only because it’s poorly absorbed orally. Methyl testosterone is usually the reference standard for oral administration
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@jamezb46 Interesting thank you.
"The 17b-hy- droxy-2-oxaestra-4,9(10)-dien-3-one analog
(III) showed a similar large increase in myo- trophic activity and enhancement of androgenic potency. The 17a-methyl-2-oxa analog (IV) was by far the most potent compound tested in this series, being 550 times as myotrophic and, de- pending on the response organ studied, 22 or 47 times as androgenic as 17a-methyltestosterone."So my interpretation is that assuming the non-17 alkylated 2-oxa trenbolone has a much lower bioavailability and half life than 17a-methyl testosterone, these results are astonishing, as it can achieve the same androgenic and myotrophic effects despite being poorly absorbed and heavily metabolised by the liver.
And when it is given the same bioavailability and half life as methyl testosterone, via the addition of the methyl group on position 17, it is of course, insane.
Have you got any thoughts on 2-oxa steroids such as anavar? What does replacing the carbon atom with the oxygen atom do?
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@alfredoolivas @eduardo-crispino @jamezb46
https://bioenergetic.forum/post/19114
a quick google search tells me that "tren PH" is just estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione or Dienedione, The actual active metabolite (of Diendione), dienolone, is almost identical to trenbolone structurally, but lacks the C11 double bond. This may be another alternative to a powerful non liver toxic steroid if it was able to be sourced -
@alfredoolivas does trenbolone or its metabolites shut you down? on testosterone esters i am reliably able to reverse shutdown with topical progesterone, older posts you mentioned you are on grams of testosterone but ironically doses that high don't cause shutdown due to the aromatase enzyme being capped out and the circulating androgens antagonizing bound estrogen.
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@dht well, trenbolone hasn’t shown to be liver safe or liver toxic and there’s no proof that dienolone either is safe either. The absence or presence of a double bond doesn’t make a drug liver safe or toxic.
Generally, the addition of a methyl group (carbon bonded to a carbon and 3 hydrogens) to carbon 17 makes a steroid liver toxic.
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@dht the main thing I noticed from trenbolone was increased semen volume interestingly
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@alfredoolivas This is very interesting, I guess I had just assumed trenbolone was hepatotoxic considering how lauded and criticized it is. Have you experienced any adverse effects on mood, intelligence or working memory? I'm curious about the extent to which trenbolone's side effects are exaggerated or inaccurate, given that it doesn't aromatize and that progesterone receptor activation in animals doesn't increase prolactin levels or cause the growth of breast tissue.
https://www.ergo-log.com/how-safe-is-trenbolone.html
"Many of the undesirable characteristics of testosterone are the work of estradiol and DHT, both products of testosterone conversion. Because trenbolone cannot convert into those metabolites, American researchers have suggested that trenbolone might be a SARM."
"Trenbolone had almost no effect on dimensions or structure of the testes, unlike the effects seen when testosterone is administered to rats in studies."
"The researchers detected no effects on liver enzymes. So in the dose tested, trenbolone is not dangerous for the liver.Do you think trenbolone could be run completely solo without any shutdown in the short and long term? Because this sounds too good to be true.
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@dht said in 2-Oxa Tren has been replaced with Non-methylated OXANDROLONE:
Have you experienced any adverse effects on mood, intelligence or working memory? I'm curious about the extent to which trenbolone's side effects are exaggerated or inaccurate,
The stories and side effects are real and not exaggerated. There have been multiple case studies published and even a meta-synthesis written about the case studies. There have been multiple cases of murder, where the murderer was documented to be taking trenbolone.
https://zenodo.org/records/15108706
However, you tend to only hear about the negative experiences. In reality, many people do fine psychologically and can maintain good health whilst taking trenbolone.
I have not experienced any adverse effects on mood, intelligence and memory. In fact, my memory was the best it ever was on trenbolone - but I was taking a bunch of other stuff, like 750mg injectable thiamine a day and nicotine patches.
I believe I only once truly experienced tren rage. I felt like the Tren Twins lol.
given that it doesn't aromatize and that progesterone receptor activation in animals doesn't increase prolactin levels or cause the growth of breast tissue.
Well but it does increase prolactin, and cause gyno. This is well documented. No one knows for sure why it does this, I don't think it's because of it's progestogenic effects either; it likely is doing this by increasing the ratio of serotonin to dopamine, as that explains the mental side effectss as well; but why does it increase the ratio of serotonin to dopamine?
I don't know. It could be possibly impurities in the trenbolone (it's synthesied from estradiol), it could be non-genomic effects of a very unsaturated steroid being present in the cell...
No one knows why it increases prolactin and causes bad side etc but it does.
@dht said in 2-Oxa Tren has been replaced with Non-methylated OXANDROLONE:
Do you think trenbolone could be run completely solo without any shutdown in the short and long term? Because this sounds too good to be true.
Too good to be true, other animal studies show no shut down from testosterone as well lol. People have tried running trenbolone solo and it never is good, people lose muscle.
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@alfredoolivas said in 2-Oxa Tren has been replaced with Non-methylated OXANDROLONE:
@dht the main thing I noticed from trenbolone was increased semen volume interestingly
But it increased seminal volume? A compound's metabolites apparently known to shutdown the hpta and natural testosterone production for up to 18 months increased seminal volume.
@alfredoolivas said in 2-Oxa Tren has been replaced with Non-methylated OXANDROLONE:
Too good to be true, other animal studies show no shut down from testosterone as well lol. People have tried running trenbolone solo and it never is good, people lose muscle.
Yet it didn't shut down your LH and FSH
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@dht yep, but there is no other way to put this; I am built different.
For example, I once made a “mistake” and injected 4200mg of testosterone propionate a week for a month (as I thought it was weaker). It made no difference; I didnt put on any more muscle and I didn’t get any side effects or mental benefits like more libido.
It’s a curse and a blessing, but the point is, I am an outlier in every sense.
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@alfredoolivas As funny as that is, your endocrine system and HPTA doesn't behave any differently from every other animal on the planet. I have seen anecdotes of people getting off NPP deca and trenbolone once the drug clears their body without waiting the "18 months" for their HPTA to bounce back from the supposed 19nor metabolites. I really think the dogma around having a test base being absolutely necessary is just not true. I have used DHT anavar winstrol masteron propionate and proviron without a testosterone base and my endogenous production never ceased. And it appears that un-aromatizable 19nors should behave the same.
