@Kilgore I get you. Long-term suppression only occurs with steroids that are esterified and have half-lives of up to weeks. Bio-identical hormones like DHEA, Pregnenolone, DHT and T, all have half-lives of around 20 minutes (even though the effects last for around a day people say anecdotally )

Short-term suppression of testosterone production occurs because increased levels of androgens (and their metabolites, such as estrogens) bind to pituitary receptors, reducing luteinising hormone (LH) signals from the brain. That’s all. The testicles remain undamaged; the suppression is simply due to elevated androgen and estrogen activity at the pituitary.

Once the androgen is discontinued, it leaves the body, and the pituitary resumes normal function, restoring natural testosterone production.

The exception is if the androgen use has caused damage to organs or organ systems. In such cases, structural changes may occur, leading to permanently reduced testosterone levels. This type of damage typically results from steroid abuse. On the other hand, TRT, when properly managed, can actually support and heal the body and its organ systems.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00365517709100649

"The effects of a one-month course of treatment with a p͟o͟t͟e͟n͟t͟ anabolic steroid, methandienone (5 and 10 mg daily), and a very weak androgen and hormone precursor, dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS, 20 and 40 mg daily) and placebo on plasma testosterone, LH and FSH levels, red cell volume and red cell 2,3-diphosphoglycerate (2,3-DPG) concentration in endurance sportsmen were studied using a double-blind test system. A highly significant decrease in mean plasma testosterone was observed after the 5 and 10 mg methandienone regimen (66 and 73%). Treatment with 40 mg of DHEAS decreased mean testosterone levels by 41% (not statistically significant). P͟r͟e͟-͟t͟e͟s͟t͟ ͟t͟e͟s͟t͟o͟s͟t͟e͟r͟o͟n͟e͟ ͟l͟e͟v͟e͟l͟s͟ ͟w͟e͟r͟e͟ ͟r͟e͟a͟t͟t͟a͟i͟n͟e͟d͟ ͟a͟b͟o͟u͟t͟ ͟1͟0͟ ͟d͟a͟y͟s͟ ͟a͟f͟t͟e͟r͟ ͟t͟h͟e͟ ͟e͟n͟d͟ ͟o͟f͟ ͟t͟h͟e͟ ͟t͟r͟e͟a͟t͟m͟e͟n͟t͟ ͟p͟e͟r͟i͟o͟d͟ ͟w͟i͟t͟h͟ ͟t͟h͟e͟ ͟h͟i͟g͟h͟e͟r͟ ͟d͟o͟s͟e͟s͟ ͟o͟f͟ ͟b͟o͟t͟h͟ ͟c͟o͟m͟p͟o͟u͟n͟d͟s͟, while 2–6 weeks afterwards a significant over-compensation in mean plasma testosterone levels was observed."

This is a study with a really toxic anabolic steroid, methandienone / Dianabol, and once the drug left the system, within 10 days, LH and testosterone levels returned back to normal.

@Kilgore said in Experiments with transdermal hormones:

I haven't ordered the powders yet since PPL is out of stock on DHT.

PPL stocks DHEA, progesterone, and pregnenolone at great prices, with DHEA available for just 80 cents per gram. Interestingly, their pregnenolone has a tested purity of 99.84%, which is nearly as high as the 99.9% purity standard from the past, back when pregnenolone was considered of higher quality and less prone to issues.

These days, most pregnenolone on the market has a purity of about 99.3%, and some claim this slight drop has led to problems. Whether or not that’s true is unclear, but that's what Danny Roddy claimed on Twitter.

@bio3nergetic “The vast majority of patients on progesterone were first prescribed micronized progesterone 100 mg (93.1%); the remainder of patients were prescribed intramuscular medroxyprogesterone.”

I had the same concerns as you, given how people refer to progesterone and progestenes synonymously nowerdays. However, there were 29 patients, and 27 were using bio identical micronised progesterone and 2 were using medroxyprogesterone.

So I still think it’s a valuable study on progesterone, and that’s why I went ahead and posted the study.

@wester130 I have no idea how soluble steroids are in the artificial vitamin E esters dissolved in ethanol. I have used artificial vitamin E, in the form of dl alpha-tocopherol oil (the natural alpha tocopherol is d alpha tocopherol), and it worked. It had a bad taste, whereas mixed tocopherols taste okay.

My advice is don’t cheap out, use the tried and tested natural tocopherol oils, you can find sources on this thread.

@Kilgore Ray said only 20% of vitamin E is absorbed when applied topically. However, he claimed that steroids dissolved in vitamin E have close to 100% absorption when taken orally. This is why he always referred to oral administration when referring to Progest E.

Topical application of steroids dissolved in vitamin E does have the benefit of slow, sustained absorption. However, if you wish to absorb a desired dose of steroids, such as 10mg of testosterone, you will need to apply 5x more solution because only 20% will be absorbed; this would require you to use 5x more steroids and 5x more vitamin E, and funnily enough, using 5x more vitamin E is the main issue here, because vitamin E is an expensive solvent and applying large amounts of vitamin E oil, is very tricky due to it creating oily skin (as it is not readily absorbable, compared to ethanol or DMSO).

Vitamin E "Oil" from NOW. has 510mg of alpha-tocopherol per 1ml, so you can probably dissolve 50-100mg of steroids in there, per ml, with ease. The NOW Vitamin E "Liquid" has 300mg of alpha-tocopherol per 1 ml, so you can probably dissolve 30-60mg of steroids per ml of oil with ease.

The NOW Vitamin E-Oil with "Mixed Tocopherols" has a 58mg amount of alpha-tocopherol per ml; I don't know how much of the other isomers it has, such as gamma-tocopherol, so I wouldn't use that immediately. I am sure NOW customer service will tell you how much total mixed tocopherols is contained within a serving.

The product that you linked me, is 100% tocopherol solution; very good, much better value than NOW products. A way to see the concentration of vitamin E oil, inside a product is to see the IU per ounce. This product has 42,500 IU of d-alpha tocopherol per oz, which means that there is 28,475mg of d-alpha tocopherol per oz (multiply IU by 0.67 to convert to milligrams). So it is pure tocopherol, and it says also so in the ingredients list.

@Crypt-Keeper I can personally make a progesterone and DHEA vitamin E solution, where I can dissolve 150mg of each into 1ml of vitamin E. So that's a 30% solution of DHEA and progesterone dissolved in vitamin E.

I pre heat the tocopherol first in the microwave to a high temperature, and then throw in the powders, swirl them vigorously, and put it back in the microwave, and warm the solution, and swirl it again vigorously. I then inspect the oil by shining a light through the bottom of the jar I brew the solution in, and I can see little to no undissolved hormone.

I failed to make a pregnenolone solution with vitamin E at first; but I found out that the trick to making steroid solutions whether that be in vitamin E, or benzyl benzoate with steroid esters, is to pre heat the solution well before adding the hormones in.

@Kilgore That's a good plan, I would take it orally though, not transdermally. The biggest issue I faced with creating a vitamin E steroid solution, was finding the right vitamin E solvent; 1.) Many Vitamin E / Tocopherol oils, are either alpha or mixed tocopherols diluted heavily with a seed oil like sunflower oil or wheat germ oil. 2.) Some are sold as "vitamin E oil / tocopherol oil" but are actually only wheat germ oil, due to it's high vitamin e content.

Both alpha and mixed tocopherol work equally as well, according to haidut via email.
I use https://www.mysticmomentsuk.com/products/vitamin-e-natural-vitamins?variant=2738367922200
It's 70% mixed tocopherols and 30% sunflower oil, which of course isn't perfect, but the sunflower oil consumed is minimal. It's the best value source of high-concentration vitamin E oil I could find in europe/UK, despite it using more expesnive mixed tocopherols. I couldn't find affordable alpha tocopherol oils in Europe, and this mixed tocopherol product is more concentrated and cheaper than any tocopherol oil I could find on iHerb.

When Ray Peat discussed thyroid hormone therapy helping to restore "order" in thyroid gland function and potentially reversing hypothyroidism, even after stopping the therapy, I initially thought this was just anecdotal evidence.

However, a meta-analysis of 17 observational studies involving 1,082 patients suggests otherwise. The findings reveal that up to a third of hypothyroid patients became and remained euthyroid (having a normally functioning thyroid gland.) after discontinuing T4 therapy, with thyroid hormone fully excreted (median follow-up time: 3 months).

This suggests by some mechanism, thyroid hormone therapy, can reverse hypothyroidism / improve thyroid function.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8110016/

"We searched multiple bibliographic databases for studies.... in which thyroid hormone replacement was discontinued... when all studies were included, the pooled estimate for euthyroidism at follow-up was 37.2%"

Proportion of Hypothyroid Patients Achieving Euthyroid Status After Discontinuing T4 Therapy Over Time

Proportion of Hypothyroid Patient Categories Achieving Euthyroid Status After Discontinuing T4 Therapy

@Kilgore Thank you, glad to be here!

@pannacottas These concentrations are very realistic for a DHT gel, so you know that it is likely DHT dissolved in this gel. Andactrim had 25mg of DHT a ml, all these other gels with 300mg etc of DHT a ml, are likely fake. Good work

@Uncover All of these users from steroid hormones are all sponsored or affiliated with other steroid shops - this is evident by them ALWAYS recommending an alternative shop with their comments. Ever noticed, when you ask a question about a steroid lab, litterally all the comments will be like "Nah bro just use domestic supply" or "Iron Daddy is the most trusted source etc" ? They are all fake reviews, believe me. I have used their services 4 times, within the past year, spent probably $750 dollars at PPL, and I haven't got a complaint. Super good customer service and cheap, high quality products.