getting super lean sickkunt
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Ok that makes a bit more sense. Yes extreme endurance is always detrimental to health and im sure the amount of plants you ate did not help your thyroid.
While i think veganism is a an anti human agenda, i also think that for it to be optimal (as optimal as a deficient diet can be) there needs to be an abundance of easily digestible carbohydrates. I think most vegans do themselves an even bigger disservice by eating way too much fibrous foods and hard to digest foods.
My days fluctuated in protein, certainly there were plenty of days in the lower range maybe even dipping into 50g protein if most of the day was rice and fruit, but i definitely had higher days eating chicken breast, tenderloin, egg whites and fat free dairy, mainly yogurt and drinking milk.
While i understand that saying the diet in not a restriction diet and at the same time saying restricting dietary fat is crucial sounds like an oxymoron, it really isnt. people that are fat need to concern themselves far less about protein, fats and even nutrients because they are wearing an excess of everything on their body. So in that sense, while their dietary fat is being restricted, they are liberating their fat stores freely and nutrition is still abundant. As long as carbohydrate consumption is high, it cant be a restriction diet as they are getting everything they need. Hopefully that makes sense, its arguing semantics and wordplay really.
The real key here is that it is different to any other fat loss diet in that way. There has never been a fat loss diet promoted that doesnt restrict calories. Carnivore/keto usually talk about not needing to restrict calories but i have not seen many actually able to get lean on those diets withour further restricting and usually they stall with a good amount of fat to go. Those diets also physically change peoples microbiomes and metabolisms and dont allow for refeeds with carbs without disastrous effect.
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thanks for the passionate responses, everyone! You're all very beautiful girls, so no need to get your panties in a bunch... firstly this whole "sugar diet" shit is totally retarded and I'm not doing that. you haven't found a new paradigm jfc...
as for protein requirements, its probably true you don't need much to maintain. ray said like 100g for a 5k cal diet, which seems adequate.
lets remember to keep things reasonable. Its pretty silly and neuroic, and clearly not healthy to sugar fast. would peat ever recommend such a thing? the answer is no. not that he's the end all be all but cmon guys
BTW I maintain a pretty lean fizeek already, my problem was never maintaining a healthy body fat, it was getting shredded quick with minimal effort while eating reasonably. posting so i can be included lolz
I got here eating a standard 'peaty' HFLC 4000 cal diet that I enjoy very much, while still having plenty of pastries and pizza and pork and other non kosher stuff socially (along with plenty of liquor and a little beer) also doing literally 0 cardio other than walking to places I wanted to be (I live in NYC so its pretty easy to walk everywhere)
FGF21 already has some questionable bone density issues so 'sugar fasting' until dinner is as far as ill go, I've tried going pure sugar (juices, honey, etc) for a day and it sucked really bad, even with a really solid amount of nutrients around that fast. there are people who maintain sub 10% bf without doing all that shit
rn the plan is just normal cal restriction while keeping fats and carbs mostly separate and seeing how far that can get me, thinking ill include a 10k step requirement, that seems reasonable. when that stalls, maybe il do a cycle of ECA or sugar fast or whatever other stupid bullshit u guys recommend me to do hahaha, or maybe just get a girl and forget about this whole lean mean machine business to begin with...
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Ray Peat was the one who postulated that a zero fat diet would clear tissues of pufa and correct metabolic derangement. He went on to show that in metabolic ward scenario the body will create its own fatty acids to substitute.
Haidut was the one that brought forth evidence that pufa clearance could be achieved in 30 days with strict fat adherence.
Walter Kempner brought this diet to the mainstream, curing diabetes, metabolic derangement, obesity, kidney failure, hypertension and more. Others before him were curing diabetes and obesity with pure sugar.
Its amazing that such close minded people can find their way to Ray Peats work in the first place.
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@Zachs thanks for the babies first ray peat ideas summary. youre talking about chimps being pufa depleted in a month on a zero fat diet? yeah man I'm not a lab animal I'm an human being who likes to enjoy my life.
Where does Ray recommend a zero-fat diet? Where does Ray even suggest it might be responsible in a health context to do something like that for a short period of time? nowhere. not even georgi, who recommends more drastic things at times, ever recommended something like that.
The idea was always to simply limit fat intake to reduce PUFA accumulation with age. not cut out entire macros.
The way you're responding and interacting with this thread is NOT playful or full of joie de vivre... get real bro! Life is play! Eating 4000 calories of sugar for most of your life sounds awful. When I eat reasonably, i have no urge to binge like how you talk about...
he always talked about a gentle, traditional, reasonable diet for longevity and health, not these bombastic, trendy health spectacles.
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Looks like u got the basics mostly figured out. But clen or ECA is definitely not BS in the sense that it works. If you want I can send you the legendary “Bodyopus” of Dan Douchaine. It’s actually amazing how many parallels there are in it to RP type ideas such as that AAS mostly work through GR antagonism. Plenty of anti peat stuff too but …
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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@jamezb46 ya bro pm me! mostly was just being tongue in cheek about "bullshit", that being anything outside of what would be considered responsible for my health. would love some good bioenergetic resources on AAS or getting shredded if you have, bc most gym bro characters (even and especially the educated ones) follow traditional medical dogma, so it's hard to really tell what is healthy or what risks are associated with what compounds in reality thru a metabolic lens.
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@jamezb46 can you send it to me too please
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@samson he doesnt mean added sugar,
fruits, honey, candies, potato much more fun than any fat source.
You dont sound playfull or joie de vivre either.
"Reasonable" doesn't mean better, or good, or optimal
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@jamezb46 said in getting super lean sickkunt:
@Zachs Where is the proof of any of that? Show me the bodybuilder who cut on 50 grams of protein per day and kept all his muscle. Where is the evidence that adding creatine to a 50g protein diet preserves muscle? Recent study showed creatine doesn't do much for muscle gain, as expected.
Why would your advice be something that is completely experimental? Experimental is fine for an experiment, not for someone who is looking to retain muscle.
I'm sorry but the sugar diet (low protein low fat high carb) is a fad. There is no evidence that it works for preserving muscle mass. Even the most radical followers of this fad suggest eating a high protein meal in the afternoon (100 grams of protein alone in that meal)
There's no point in him showing you a body builder who cuts with 50 grams of protein while retaining his muscle mass, because he didn't talk about body builders and Samson himself didn't mention being a body builder, and if a body builder would lose muscle by consuming 50 grams of protein a day, that would be a positive because there's absolutely no point in having the muscle mass of a body builder. Optimal health for children, women or men is 0% associated with a bulky or body builder physique. What's more, Zach didn't even mention 50 grams of protein in his previous answers. Just eating 4kilos of fruits you Can get 60g of proteins in theory, and on a high ripe fruits diet you Can eat more than that with out feeling disconfort, i have personally eaten 5/10/15 kilos at once or a day with out disconfort, if you look at monkeys/apes, gibbons wich are like 10 kilos max eat up to 2 kilos of ripe fruits a day, apes such as orangutan can eat like 5kilos of ripe fruits. A day if available according to internet.
Personal experiences> studies.
Also, the higher our energy level, the stronger and more elastic our joints, the less we need to contract and stiffen our muscles to perform a movement, so a reduction in muscle mass can be a positive.
Bulging muscles isnt optimal at all.
Also, binging is common in the majority of animals we see, whether they eat meat, grass, fruit, it's not bad in itself, it depends on the food, the quantity we can ingest before manifesting negative effects varies.
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@A-Former-User said in getting super lean sickkunt:
Ok that makes a bit more sense. Yes extreme endurance is always detrimental to health and im sure the amount of plants you ate did not help your thyroid.
While i think veganism is a an anti human agenda, i also think that for it to be optimal (as optimal as a deficient diet can be) there needs to be an abundance of easily digestible carbohydrates. I think most vegans do themselves an even bigger disservice by eating way too much fibrous foods and hard to digest foods.
My days fluctuated in protein, certainly there were plenty of days in the lower range maybe even dipping into 50g protein if most of the day was rice and fruit, but i definitely had higher days eating chicken breast, tenderloin, egg whites and fat free dairy, mainly yogurt and drinking milk.
While i understand that saying the diet in not a restriction diet and at the same time saying restricting dietary fat is crucial sounds like an oxymoron, it really isnt. people that are fat need to concern themselves far less about protein, fats and even nutrients because they are wearing an excess of everything on their body. So in that sense, while their dietary fat is being restricted, they are liberating their fat stores freely and nutrition is still abundant. As long as carbohydrate consumption is high, it cant be a restriction diet as they are getting everything they need. Hopefully that makes sense, its arguing semantics and wordplay really.
The real key here is that it is different to any other fat loss diet in that way. There has never been a fat loss diet promoted that doesnt restrict calories. Carnivore/keto usually talk about not needing to restrict calories but i have not seen many actually able to get lean on those diets withour further restricting and usually they stall with a good amount of fat to go. Those diets also physically change peoples microbiomes and metabolisms and dont allow for refeeds with carbs without disastrous effect.
Gotcha. I understand better now why you don’t consider it a restriction diet. Thank you for further explaining and clarifying your protein intake, Zach.
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@samson said in getting super lean sickkunt:
or maybe just get a girl and forget about this whole lean mean machine business to begin with...
I vote for this. Find a nice girl who’ll look at you like you hung the moon and leave your body be. It’s perfect.
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Where do I find one (asking for a friend)?
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@jamezb46, I’ve always met men organically just going about my life so normally I would suggest that, but based on what I’ve heard men say about how challenging it is to approach women nowadays, maybe your friend could join a coed meetup group/club, volunteer or take classes, based on their interests, that way they’re meeting women they have something in common with who are also there to socialize and likely more open. Some ideas:
Volunteering at a soup kitchen, animal shelter or environmental organization involving community cleanup, join a choir, book, astronomy, gaming, hiking or cycling club or a coed recreational sports league, join a climbing gym (possibly more opportunity to interact there than at a regular gym?), take a drawing, painting, sculpting, cooking, martial art or dance class, and if your friend is open to it, ballroom specifically. I had a coworker who did ballroom and she said that the women were always fighting over the men because there weren’t enough to partner up with. There’s also church, if your friend is religious, and even local hobby forums so if they meet a women online, it’s more feasible to get together in person. I wish him the best of luck.
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@Jennifer Thank you for all of the advice. You've given him plenty of consider. My friend thanks you (We're so close I can practically read his thoughts)
I'll tell him to give special consideration to the ballroom dancing class. He listens to everything I tell him.
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@jamezb46 time to design a PED stack for your friend to become the best ballroom dancer in the class
there’s no WADA for ballroom dancing
