getting super lean sickkunt
-
Carbs are protein sparing and insulin sensitivity means you will be primed from muscle gain. Short term, added protein is not necessary.
I would suggest added creatine for keeping muscle though.
-
@Zachs Where is the proof of any of that? Show me the bodybuilder who cut on 50 grams of protein per day and kept all his muscle. Where is the evidence that adding creatine to a 50g protein diet preserves muscle? Recent study showed creatine doesn't do much for muscle gain, as expected.
Why would your advice be something that is completely experimental? Experimental is fine for an experiment, not for someone who is looking to retain muscle.
I'm sorry but the sugar diet (low protein low fat high carb) is a fad. There is no evidence that it works for preserving muscle mass. Even the most radical followers of this fad suggest eating a high protein meal in the afternoon (100 grams of protein alone in that meal)
-
First, i am not interested in what bodybuilders do during cuts. Bodybuilding in itself is detrimental to health and most likely bodybuilders would feel much better with a reduction of muscle!
Im talking about in a surplus of metabolic energy, the protein requirements become very little. Nitrogen balance is evidence that supports this. You CAN lose fat while taking in a “surplus” of energy. CICO is complete bullshit and i have proved it in myself and have seen others do the same.
Metabolism is what counts, not CICO, not protein. Optimization of metabolism and hormones will create an anabolic enviornment unlike anything else short of steroids.
Call it a fad if you like but have you actually done it? Have you seen results for yourself and put it to the test. If not, you are just hypothesizing with the rest of them.
-
@jamezb46 the last statement is incorrect about the most radical people eating 100g protein per day . sugar fasting (sugar diet name is incorrect) is not honey diet
sugar fasting is where someone eats only sucrose foods to achieve their goal weight and can refeed on low fat protein foods OR can eat normal fatty meats at a frequency depending on their leanness
cole says it was incorrect to label it as sugar diet as it is sugar FASTING. its fasting with sucrose. which is optimal compared to fasting with zero calories.
he also says the ideal diet is then low fat normal protein high carb but since most people are eating fatty foods they can just go back to sugar fasting in whatever frequency to maintain their leanness
OP says they plan to get lean for summer which is basically now, they dont have 6 months to a year to go slow
sugar fasting is the optimal way for his situation
honey diet has no results because its pretty much a normal diet
ive lost like 15-20lb in a month without trying hard and not even doing it correctly (eating starches)
im eating NORMAL tomorrow at a party and then going back to sugar FASTING with straight sucrose foods for another 30 days. and then adding in lean proteins. or maybe ill just do 7 or 14 days and then a refeed and then go again until
desired leanness. when i then eat normal fatty foods i will just hop back on sucrose FASTING to get back to leanness and then add back in lean proteins.
once my desired leanness is achieved ill optimally stick to a low fat normal protein high carb diet but when i eat fatty foods i can just sugar FAST for a day or two or three to get back to / maintain the leannessits optimal way of fasting / managing weight
its not a diet to stay on straight sucrose forever
it has way faster progress than normal dieting and removing protein doesnt result in much if any muscle loss if sugar is kept highi know multiple people doing it and i know a cyclist who got auschwitz skinny on it . it will probably work fine for bodybuilding too. bodybuilders can maintain a low fat normal protein high carb diet anyways. OP is asking how to lose fat fast not for a normal diet plan
protein is probably a psyop at the amounts people think needed for good muscles
-
I pretty much whole heartedly agree except i wouldnt say you need to fast to do this as the mechanism for fat loss is not calorie restriction and therefor you could literally feast on sugar and still lose fat.
The specific Cole sugar fast will work amazing for rapid fat loss and will indeed spare muscle. BUT as long as the diet is zero fat and lower protein (60-90g) a day, rapid fat loss can be achieved while still in a “surplus” of calories (2000-4000+)surplus is relative of course as metabolism raises with intake.
-
@Zachs sugar fasting = eating only sucrose foods. not fasting FROM sugar. sugar fasting means only eating sugar. sugar fasting (eating only sugar) is optimal compared to zero calorie (eat nothing) fasting for weightloss because people can go way longer, it's less stressful, and im pretty sure just restricting protein gives similar autophagy effect if thats what people are going for
ok so what you said in the latter, low fat normal protein, that's what I intend to do as a normal diet when im my desired leanness. and then if I have a blowout day at the Costco food court or the bbq house or something, I can go back to sugar fasting for a couple days or whatever to maintain the leanness. and its easy. 2-3 days on straight sucrose is easy and fun. drinking juice and pop and eating jam and fruit and candy etc.
someone could achieve a similar result on FAT fasting but who wants to drink oil and eat lard ???? that's disgusting.
ive done all the diets. high protein no fat no carbs is not palatable and energy sucks. I did get ripped on it though. high fat zero carb is absolutely disgusting . zero calorie sucks (ive done 9 days on just salt water) and is extremely stressful. carb only is barely in the same league of toughness, in fact it isn't tough at all. the only cravings ive had have been for starches.
-
Sorry you misunderstood me, i agreed with you about sugar fasting but just disagreed calling it a fast in general as fasting means no or low calorie diet but that is not necessary when eating only sugar, calories can be as high as you want.
My take on it is the zero fat diet, as long as the diet is ZERO fat and low protein, carbs can be from any source and as much as you like and you will lose fat because the mechanism for fat loss is not calorie restriction, its increased metabolism and liberation of fat stores for bodily processes.
Were talking the same diet basically but slightly different approaches.
And no a fat fast would not work the same, eating only fat would take metabolism and you would end up storing fat on like 1600 cals after awhile.
-
@Zachs ok cool. yes there is no calorie restriction on straight sucrose. can eat as much as someone wants. nobody is out-eating a pure sucrose diet.
and yes my plan for a normal diet is low fat high carb and whatever protein is required. which isn't even hard or un-palatable to do. and fat foods on occasion. the sugar only diet allows someone to enjoy all foods as the sugar only diet "block" are the tool to achieve and maintain leanness. and eating candy and sodas and fruits is fun.
the foods I crave the most anyways are pasta and rice and potatoes and occasionally ill get the desire to eat some fatty dairy or meats. There is a BBQ place here that does all sorts of BBQ foods with cornbreads and beans and etc. when I go on a giga-binge there with full fat ice cream after and probably some pie too, I can just do a 1-2 day sugar "block" after to negate the potential weight gain.
other than that my other favourite food is rotisserie chickens and rice and veg.
eating a "peaty" diet with lots of saturated fats just got me fat. and the idea of never being able to binge on fatty foods sounds like a bad time. I really like binging sometimes. ive also convinced myself that a sugar diet block after eating a PUFA food like fatty pork will negate the downsides . avoiding pork and chicken with the skin on due to PUFA avoidance has been annoying. Jerk chicken thighs with the skin on are some of the best food ever. when I was lean I ate way more PUFA than I do now (now being fat with PUFA avoidance) and my health wasn't worse for it. I dont think PUFA is that bad for super lean people with good metabolisms. I have no science to back this up and I dont care because this is what im believing and rationalizing. im not going to continue restricting this stuff.
like, I remember being in daily euphoria and creativity with amazing skin and hair quality , eating organic avocados and they taste so good. and then I learned that ray said avocados are "carcinogenic". and I haven't had one since. like come on man. it's an avocado. I like guacamole. come on. I was lean as F then too and having fun in the gym and walking a lot.
mostly all that matters is getting lean and that has way more health benefits than being a fatty and being a top tier peater. and with the skills from peating one can be lean and not dip into excess stress. I fell for the rpf forum "IM HEAAAALING" bullshit. just getting lean is one of the most important things for HEEEAAAALING there is.
this has been my tedx talk
-
potential question for next video:
what do you think is better as a carb source in the normal protein high carb diet :
fruit + honey with lean meat
OR
starch with lean meat
or are both good in their own ways ?
seems like fruit + honey etc goes better by itself without lean meat. perhaps with low fat milk.
whereas starch goes better with the meat in a meal together.
-
Actually one if the things i hypothesized from my original zero fat experiment is i think i gave myself an EFA deficiency. I know most believe this simply cant happen as there are tiny amounts of fat in all foods but also i had ramped my metabolism by purposely over eating carbs and that mean utilizing more EFA for cell turnover and other processes.
One thing i disagreed with RP about is that all PUFA is inherently toxic. EFAs are absolutely necessary for good health and specifically LA/ALA when eaten in whole foods and non toxic oils will help with health.
So yea i agree, especially with a pufa depleting diet, refeed of pufa rich foods is a good thing.
Its constant consumption of toxic seed oils that causes disease. Humans have been eating pigs and chicken and whatnot forever.
And ill make a YT short on your question.
-
@Zachs guy on reddit sub says he gave himself and his family efa deficiency also
-
@eduardo-crispino I do still wonder if it wasn't a PUFA deficiency and it was more like the PUFA helped to numb symptoms they were getting from something else they were doing.
I think their only fat source was homogenized coconut oil and egg yolks from their chickens which were fed a very strict PUFA controlled diet.
-
@Zachs I agree CICO is bullshit. Why do you think I think CICO is true? CICO is ridiculous to anyone with a functioning prefrontal cortex.
With that said, your reasoning is still at best radically incomplete and at worst utterly false. Explain to me how muscle protein synthesis is supposed to occur if your dietary protein intake is not adequate? Are your muscle cells supposed to abra-cadabra the amino acids it needs initiate MPS from scratch? Or maybe are the amino acids supposed to come from skin or connective tissue that your body catabolizes and then transports to the muscle? Since magic is impossible, you're left with the second option which is called catabolism not anabolism.
We know the basics of what triggers MPS. Certain dietary amino acids like leucine trigger it strongly, as does adequate protein from the diet.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28915727/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37325954/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34371981/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31121843/In addition, low fat diets (in the 0-30 gram range that is popular on the "sugar-diet") decreases multiple measures of androgen production in males, in particular males of northern European ancestry. So, the "sugar diet" will likely tank testosterone levels, so much for creating an "anabolic environment"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33741447/
To answer your last question, I have not done it because there is reason to think it is a stupid idea. Do I need to test something myself to know whether it is true or not? No. That is a ridiculous epistemic principle. I don't need to try a vegan diet, or try drinking 14 gallons of water per day, or try jumping off of a building to know what will likely happen in those scenarios.
Lastly, the "sugar diet" consisting of cane sugar, candy, gummy bears, litres of coke, sour patch kids, etc. is completely devoid of micronutrients, so good luck overcoming that hurdle as well.
-
@eduardo-crispino I'm sorry but you're wrong and this diet and advice are certified retarded. You really think your micronutrient poor gummy bear bullshit is better than eggs,meat,fruit,potatoes,liver, clen and E+C stack, and cardio?
You're literally describing yo-yo dieting. You eat this diet for a week or two, eat fatty foods, and then when you gain weight you go back on the diet to "lean out" haha bro that's called a wrecked metabolism
Pure sucrose is depleting b-vitamins, minerals, and other micronutrients, as well as being hard on digestion. Why is pure sucrose the ideal? Why not fruit juice?
Yes, I agree that gram per pound of protein is excessive, but 0.71-0.8 g/pound is probably optimal for naturals, and for enhanced, probably a lot more.
Mike Fave actually has a great video on this recent fad. Check it out bro
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
-
What amount of protein intake are we even talking about? We have not even given any numbers and you want to say that im utterly false.
As a rule i dont argue with people who believe anything with 100% certainty without ever trying something or even knowing exactly what the other person is saying.
-
@jamezb46 mike faves video is strawmanning
cole eats and reccomends vegetables fruit and juice for the sugar fasts
youre just reacting to a reaction of his video of coles most recent video eating candy
cole is just showing candy works for weightloss tooit sounds like youre reacting to the hype train effect and not the actual content, i doubt youve listened to many of coles videos if you dont like the idea as they are probably hard for someone to listen to that doesnt like his yelling and swearing . i dont think you overstand the concept anyways, it is an optimized form of fasting .
mike fave is a type of science nerd cole talks about
there are many results pictures to be posted . until then …
ps cole made fun of saladino for charging $900 for a phone consult and then asking the client another $20 for long distance. mike fave charges $597 for an app and membership of his community lolololol
cole is threatening these people’s griftingi have many mroe reasons why sugar block fasting is superior to anythiing else for weight loss and managament. it allows people to be normal and binge eat frequently, which is healthy,
binge eating IS healthy.the muscle loss thing is a fear perpetuated by ppl
mike saw the video reply to sugar diet as a marketing avenue , which is fine and good, but it is transparent and gay. mike doesnt even look athletic. the muscle loss fear is funny because mike is twinky and cole is jacked
-
@jamezb46 0.71-0.8 grams per pound
-
@jamezb46 well cole has done it including all the stupid things like high fat zero carb and no calorie. he has lots of experience. im too lazy to rationalize it further. can you eat a half a costco tiramisu and stay lean or does your diet require you to eat the same calories and macros everyday. carnivores cant eat a bowl of strawberries, and similar would be to someone that cant eat fatty meats at some point in their diet. yo yo dieting is based. binging is based.
-
YO YO dieting IS based
Binging IS based -
@eduardo-crispino I agree that Mike could use a lot more muscle. I'm not Mike's #1 fan by any means. But the muscle loss is a demonstrated thing on fat loss diets when protein is not adequate. It is surely not adequate if doing "sugar fasting".
What evidence do you have that muscle loss is not occurring on very low protein diets?
What about the "sugar diet" people. Have you tried clen? t3+t2? ECA stack? You really think you're smarter than literal decades of guys getting shredded using that shit? I'm not saying that nothing can ever change, and the old ways are best. Fuck the old ways. But there are proven ways that absolutely do work. Some of them are listed above.
Binge eating is not healthy by any means. Why do you think it is healthy?
