For those of you FGF21maxxing or otherwise eating low protein, what are you eating?
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@LucH said in For those of you FGF21maxxing or otherwise eating low protein, what are you eating?:
@Mulloch94 said in For those of you FGF21maxxing or otherwise eating low protein, what are you eating?:
low protein intake will increase FGF21
Hi,
I was trying to understand and made a search:
Why target FGF21 increase beyond compensation or insulin sensitivity?
Adaptive Regulation:
FGF21 acts as a signal for protein restriction, triggering metabolic adjustments to conserve energy and adapt to nutrient availability. While it improves insulin sensitivity, it also influences other metabolic processes like energy expenditure and lipid metabolism.
Is it to regulate LPL cholesterol profile?
Feel free not to develop if you consider this question "private".
I think the main interest in the wider scope of things is it helps "brown" fat deposits and increase the conversion of T4 to T3. There's also some circumstantial evidence (animal models) to suggest it may be anti-fibrotic on certain organs like the liver, possible others, reducing fat accumulation at these sites.
For me, I just like mental clarity of the lower protein higher sugar stuff. I also think in hypothyroid people it can help compensate for a lack of thyroid hormone. My major working theory is it's more related to less gluconeogenesis. Like, the more hypothyroid someone is, the more impaired their ability to store glycogen is. They more aptly convert protein to glucose due to shit like glucagon and cortisol. This also reduces ATP because using protein for energy is very inefficient.
If you reduce protein low enough in these people and increase the sugar high enough the gluconeogenesis will be reduced and the liver can start focusing on other processes besides just making glucose from protein. That includes everything from converting T4 into T3, to processing and removing endotoxins, to exporting fat into cholesterol for hormone production, etc.
However, some of the big names on X have chosen to focus on FGF21. Whatever, I'm not convinced the majority of the benefits are actually from this, but the net result is the same regardless.
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@Mulloch94 I feel like I eat way less calories while doing this and feel fine. easily sub 2000.
Now, calories get calculated based on how much energy it takes your body to burn them, from what I understand (technically they break the food source down to macro nutrients and have a value assigned to each nutrient then do the math). I feel like this is very wrong, but you could also not possibly calculate true calorie values. There are so many different factors to take into consideration varying person to person. Like, taking a tablespoon of sugar as an insulin resistant obese person will result in different effects to you taking it. So what if you taking "2400 calories" result in much more energy than it is actually calculated by current soyence?
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- whatever fresh fruits are available for a good price
- cooked greens such as kale, bok choy, spinach
- raw capsicum and raw cabbage
- soy sauce
- eggshells
this all costs approx $15-$20 CAD per day for 3000+ calories.
the skim milk powder is optional. fgf21maxxing requires low protein. the rice actually has a decent amount of protein too, so drop that for faster fatloss.
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@Mulloch94 coconut oil increases fgf21? interdasting. i use a teaspoon when making a cup of dry weight rice.
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@Mulloch94 dates get really gross when eating alot of them imo
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@Mulloch94 said in For those of you FGF21maxxing or otherwise eating low protein, what are you eating?:
I think the main interest in the wider scope of things is it helps "brown" fat deposits and increase the conversion of T4 to T3. There's also some circumstantial evidence (animal models) to suggest it may be anti-fibrotic on certain organs like the liver, possible others, reducing fat accumulation at these sites.
Ok, I understand better.
Let's summarize you do it for more energy and brain clarity, optimizing thyroid and liver.
Thanks for sharing. -
@Kilgore said in For those of you FGF21maxxing or otherwise eating low protein, what are you eating?:
@Mulloch94 I feel like I eat way less calories while doing this and feel fine. easily sub 2000.
Now, calories get calculated based on how much energy it takes your body to burn them, from what I understand (technically they break the food source down to macro nutrients and have a value assigned to each nutrient then do the math). I feel like this is very wrong, but you could also not possibly calculate true calorie values. There are so many different factors to take into consideration varying person to person. Like, taking a tablespoon of sugar as an insulin resistant obese person will result in different effects to you taking it. So what if you taking "2400 calories" result in much more energy than it is actually calculated by current soyence?
I definitely think there's some truth to this. I mean I know there is really. People that are diabetic or hypo waste a lot of glucose, and the most important thing with caloric intake of ANY kind is how much ATP is being generated from thew foods we eat. Diabetes, intestinal issues, hypothyroidism all alter these variables. I keep thinking back to that interview where Ray said he use to eat like 7,000 calories (? iirc) before he got on thyroid medicine. But taking thyroid made him able to eat a more normal based diet. Essentially started using his calories more sufficiently.
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@sunsunsun said in For those of you FGF21maxxing or otherwise eating low protein, what are you eating?:
- whatever fresh fruits are available for a good price
- cooked greens such as kale, bok choy, spinach
- raw capsicum and raw cabbage
- soy sauce
- eggshells
this all costs approx $15-$20 CAD per day for 3000+ calories.
the skim milk powder is optional. fgf21maxxing requires low protein. the rice actually has a decent amount of protein too, so drop that for faster fatloss.
Nice, thanks for some of the extra ideas. I didn't really think about fruit jams and stuff. We use the same brand of powdered milk haha.
Yeah the rice I calculated to be at around 5-6 grams of protein per cup...that's cooked. So if you get a cup of dry rice and cook it, you'll end up with about 3 cups of cooked rice. If you ate all that you'd get like 15-17 grams of protein. So it adds up.
Actually one food I've been eating that I forgot to list was glass noodles. They're really good and versatile. Almost pure starch and no protein. A better alternative to rice if you're trying to keep the protein lower.
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@sunsunsun Yeah, at least that's what some account said on X. Take it with a grain of salt. One teaspoon of coconut oil would probably be enough to get the benefits.
I have tried more lenient versions of this, where the protein is still kept LOW but being a little more liberal with the fats. That actually didn't feel bad for me either. Better than high carb, moderate protein, and low fat. But I have noticed a pretty drastic mental boost from just dropping the fats even lower.
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@Mulloch94 good because coconut oil makes white rice taste really good
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I think I’m having symptoms of fructose malabsorption on fruit till noon/ honey diet. Cramps, softer and liquid stool, un digested pieces of fruit in stool.
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@GreekDemiGod said in For those of you FGF21maxxing or otherwise eating low protein, what are you eating?:
I think I’m having symptoms of fructose malabsorption on fruit till noon/ honey diet. Cramps, softer and liquid stool, un digested pieces of fruit in stool.
Ditch the honey and just use cane sugar. I don't really do the honey diet, nor if someone were to ask me would I even recommend it. I think there's too many pitfalls. Everything from that fasting window in the late afternoon to gorging out on protein in your evening meal (he said 1lb of beef for an example I think).
Just eat sugar frequently and consistently throughout the day, occasionally sprinkling in protein to meet your requirements. If fat really "burns in the flame of carbohydrate" then all the backloading of protein and fat at dinner would potentially offset any benefits, especially if you got into this for weight loss purposes.
Weight maintenance might actually require a slight increase in fat or protein. Still probably not like a pound of beef. 1 pound of 93% lean hamburger is going to be like 95 grams of protein and 34 grams of fat. Eating that much protein in one sitting would be crazy, lol. It's all basically going through gluconeogenesis. Which is increasing glucagon, cortisol, prolactin, possibly even serotonin & estrogen.
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what i noticed with this diet is the total absence of abdominal swelling. very flat stomach!
with proteins and fats i increase the swelling.
what could be the cause?! -
@visalibero said in For those of you FGF21maxxing or otherwise eating low protein, what are you eating?:
what i noticed with this diet is the total absence of abdominal swelling. very flat stomach!
with proteins and fats i increase the swelling.
what could be the cause?!I don't really know. Could be a hundred different things. Maybe the added protein and fat is increasing visceral bodyfat. Maybe when you remove them your cortisol drops and your get more sensitive to insulin (this part is almost certainly happening). Maybe because the liver isn't having to waste time turning protein into glucose it can detoxify endotoxin better, creating a flat belly. Maybe dietary fats are simply pulling too many endotoxins into the blood causing inflammation. Or maybe there really is something to FGF21, and it's "browning" all your belly fat.
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@TexugoDoMel lol at the t3 levels on low protein rats. just crazy
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@TexugoDoMel @sunsunsun Look at the weight at the livers as well. That's perhaps the most remarkable thing. They weigh less, which likely means it burned a lot of fat off the livers, leaning them out.
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@sunsunsun said in For those of you FGF21maxxing or otherwise eating low protein, what are you eating?:
@TexugoDoMel lol at the t3 levels on low protein rats. just crazy
It's quite common to find T3 levels 2x or 3x higher in low-protein animals. You don't actually need to eat low total protein, you can get the same results (or in my opinion, even better) just by restricting methionine and cysteine.
MR = Methionine(and cysteine) restricted
@Mulloch94 said in For those of you FGF21maxxing or otherwise eating low protein, what are you eating?:
@TexugoDoMel @sunsunsun Look at the weight at the livers as well. That's perhaps the most remarkable thing. They weigh less, which likely means it burned a lot of fat off the livers, leaning them out.
It can backfire if used for long periods, diets deficient in sulfur amino acids (methionine, cysteine, taurine) are common to induce fatty liver in experiments, but other components probably play a role.
