Avocado: Toxic but how much?
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You're still glossing over and ignoring what I posted (what is the point of making a new thread about this instead of just replying in the linked one?) is that Ray citing that very study you've posted above (which I don't post links to because t I am quite lazy) directly contradicts the claim that it is the PUFA that makes avocados potentially toxic.
Not to mention that is besides the point that no other studies I came across reproduced the toxicity effects, in fact most if not all of the other studies I saw showed everything from the avocado fruit to the seed are protective. Even the authors of the liver collagen solubility study showing avocado tended to promote fibrosis say they are surprised at their result because their previous study in skin showed the opposite effect. For Ray to cite it in the first place as proof that PUFA from avocado is toxic is hilarious because the actual study SPECIFICALLY proves in that study that it IS NOT the fat portion of the avocado oil causing the increased potential for liver fibrosis, because they tested both unrefined and refined avocado oil and the refined (pure fat with all other portions removed) DID NOT cause the tendency for increased fibrosis, while the unrefined did. So it is something else other than the fat that is causing the issue IN THAT STUDY (emphasis here because no other study reproduced it).
AGAIN, this is beside the point THAT EVERY OTHER STUDY shows avocados and even the avocado seed being protective against inflammation and actually helping the mitochondria withstand stressors.
Ray calling avocados toxic, especially against the context of the two studies he cites in that vegetables article, and peatarians running with it for years, not questioning it, nobody posting about this plain contradiction and erroneous usage of citation, is honestly embarrassing. Danny Roddy who apparently is le Ray Peat expert never caught this or called him out on it. This is a guy who charges people money for his 'expertise' on bioenergetics. Neither of the citations Ray provides about avocados in the article support his claim that the PUFA fat is what makes avocados toxic and in fact the specific one that actually deals with toxicity (because the other study on Congolese women breast-feeding is even less relevant) actually proves the opposite of his claim.
This is all really funny. Zero shade on Ray from me btw. I'm just pointing out that this seems like an obvious error, bad citation, maybe Ray is just being loose with his anti-PUFA bias.
I think normal amounts of natural whole food PUFA that a normal person who isn't weird or neurotic would eat is probably totally ok and even a net benefit. I'm talking like a handful of sunflower seeds or nuts or an avocado a few times a week.
I'm not gonna make a twitter thread about this to tag all the influencers, I'm not gonna post more about this. This information is for the conscientious people who don't follow the cult mentality and who can think for themselves.
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You are not the holder of the referenced post.
It's not possible to subtitle a second post to clearly orientate the reader.
You discussed the benefits of avocado, starting with avocado oil.
I wanted to present the studies on the oil and the fruit more clearly.
I didn't want to compromise the clarity of the presentation by issuing restrictions, otherwise the reader would have been distracted, more focused on the fact that there was no consensus.
When there is opposition, half of the readers hesitate and don't take a position.
Furthermore, I found your argument on RP to be excellent. No need to add anything.
I do not wish to continue this discussion here.
I'm the holder of this post, and therefore have more latitude to guide the discussion. -
@LucH xD
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L LucH referenced this topic on
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Would be good hear more opinions here :
Avocado became pretty accessible in recent years, it is easy to use, just spread it on bread or cut into your salad or oatmeal, it maches good with any starches .
Unlike butter it is unnoticeable for digestion , seems like an ideal delicious food addition .But what stops me here, Ray was very firm in his coclusion - avocado is toxic. There is no in between. It sounded like a warning : if you get kidney or liver cancer at some point: yeah, it was avocado ...
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@Gardner said in Avocado: Toxic but how much?:
Ray was very firm in his coclusion - avocado is toxic.
See my analyze above:
Avocado: Toxic but how much?
By the way, RP didn't express it so in all the contexts. It depends on the frequency. only the fruit, of course.
As put in excerpt:
5. Avocado fruit study (not the oil)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22070054
J Exp Ther Oncol. 2011. Avocado fruit (Persea americana Mill) exhibits chemo-protective potentiality against cyclophosphamide induced genotoxicity in human lymphocyte culture.
Paul R. et al.
Diets rich in fruits and vegetables have been associated with reduced risks for many types of cancers. Avocado (Persea americana Mill.) is a widely consumed fruit containing many cancer preventing nutrients, vitamins and phytochemicals. Studies have shown that phytochemicals extracted from the avocado fruit selectively induce cell cycle arrest, inhibit growth, and induce apoptosis in precancerous and cancer cell lines.
=> So a question of frequency... Not every day. -
@LucH
I only briefly read the above mentioned studies :
RP wrote:
Not all fruits, of course, are perfectly safe--avocados, for example, contain so much unsaturated fat that they can be carcinogenic and hepatotoxic.He blames PUFA when the study says it was smth else in avocado oil: unrefined avocado oil as compared to those fed refined avocado oil showed a decrease in hepatic total soluble collagen.
daily avocado is a ticking time bomb
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@Gardner studies after apparently didn't reproduce the effect and in fact show beneficial effects of avocados
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@sunsunsun said in Avocado: Toxic but how much?:
@Gardner studies after apparently didn't reproduce the effect and in fact show beneficial effects of avocados
I think we are introduced to so many new or luxury foods now that it is imposible to figure out which is good or bad by simply eliminating one by one . Actually now we are getting people like Grant or Chaffee who reduce their meals to 1 or 2 basic items and cure themselves of all maladies
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@Gardner said in Avocado: Toxic but how much?:
daily avocado is a ticking time bomb
Gardner says
"Daily avocado is a ticking time bomb"LucH comments:
Yes, not advised so. Why?
As I said:
I would like first to point out that all polyunsaturated oils (PUFA) are immuno-suppressive.
W9 > W6 > W3. Omega-3 being the worst.
Let me recall this: âOnly the dose makes a thing is not a poison.â And weâre not talking about oil but a fruit, nor any other extract. Eaten with a moderate frequency. Half an avocado brings 1.8 g PUFA.Avocado Nutrition: A medium avocado weighs 202 g and provides 322 K/cal per 100 g (half a big avocado)
G18 P4 L30
Fiber 13.4 g
84 mcg of Vitamin A (14 RAs)
124 mcg of beta-carotene (from zeaxanthin, alpha-carotene, and beta-carotene, three other carotenoids, and tocopherol).
Source: Canada santéFat 14.7 g per 100 g fruit
- saturated 2.1 g
- Monounsaturated 9.9 g
- Polyunsaturated 1.8 g of which omega-3 0.1 g (index 13.3 according to nutrition.fr)
Source: Passport Santé
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Hass avocado vs le Fuerte
Hass avocado has a black or brown grainy skin
The Fuerte avocado has a smooth, green skin, with yellow flesh. A much bigger fruit too. (See the picture).
The total amount fat could be quite different. How much (proportion)?
Why the difference matter
The Fat Breakdown
Hass avocados have a lower water content. The "Hass Advantage": Because itâs proportionally about 25-30% higher in fat than the Fuerte, it mashes better.On average, here is how the two compare in terms of fat proportion:
Feature - Hass Avocado - Fuerte Avocado
Total Fat Content ~18â22% / ~12â15%
Texture Rich, creamy, and buttery. / Lighter, thinner, and "cleaner"
Water Content / Low / High
Flavor Profile - Nutty and intense - Mild and slightly grassy
