High-dose Thiamine therapy
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Anyone done this long-term? I've read the good studies and checked out Elliot Overton but I'm curious to hear a Peater's experience.
I'm about to start taking 1500mg/day Thiamine HCl.
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@tolstoy does anyone know the absorption rate of thiamine hcl?
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I haven't tested it. But there are many studies confirming the effectiveness of thiamine in large, oral doses. I think it has to do with the immunomodulatory effect of thiamine (as a coenzyme), especially on TCA, the tricarboxylic acid cycle.
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@Dulkadir said in High-dose Thiamine therapy:
does anyone know the absorption rate of thiamine hcl?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3293077/
,,Free thiamine is taken-up by the body by a saturable transport system in the proximal small intestine that was thought to severely limit the amount of thiamine that can be absorbed by a single oral dose [9-11]. For this reason, alternate forms of thiamine (S-acyl thiamine derivatives and lipid-soluble thiamine disulfide derivatives), that are more absorbable by the body, had been developed [12]. However, free thiamine may be taken-up by the body by both a saturable active transport system and a nonsaturable passive process. Thus high doses of thiamine hydrochloride may be absorbable."
,,Our study demonstrates that high blood levels of thiamine can be achieved rapidly with oral thiamine hydrochloride. Thiamine is absorbed by both an active and nonsaturable passive process."
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@Fructose @Dulkadir There is also a discussion regarding "saturating" the active processes with thiamine such that they upregulate their constituents. I'm really not sure why saturating an enzyme would cause upregulation instead of downregulation, but many of the seminal papers by Constantini and Lonsdale discuss this... i.e., there is an effect beyond simple "absorption" or "deficiency"—a biochemical shift of sorts; like tipping the ball over the homeostatic valley.
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@Fructose @tolstoy
"Second, oral thiamine hydrochloride when given over a 1-week period produce blood levels that approach those obtained by intramuscular and intravenous administration [31,32]"
That's good to hear, thanks for the reply
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Thiamine mononitrate works much, much better than thiamine HCL for me. I take 600 mg + cypro after every meal and everything is improving
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@tolstoy said in High-dose Thiamine therapy:
@Fructose @Dulkadir There is also a discussion regarding "saturating" the active processes with thiamine such that they upregulate their constituents. I'm really not sure why saturating an enzyme would cause upregulation instead of downregulation, but many of the seminal papers by Constantini and Lonsdale discuss this... i.e., there is an effect beyond simple "absorption" or "deficiency"—a biochemical shift of sorts; like tipping the ball over the homeostatic valley.
I agree with that. The theory of Constantini and Lonsdale is fascinating.
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Update: After doing a range of doses from 300-1000mg (split into 2) for one week and feeling little to no effect, I took a single large 1500mg dose and the Effects were profound.
I've been peating for nearly 2 yrs now. Started off great, got even better, then hit a horrible phase of fatigue and anhedonia. I think maybe the increased sugar depleted my thiamine. Even had weird neuropathy symptoms at some points. Hopefully this works, I'll keep updating this thread for any future observers.
P.S. The reason I took this large dose is due to Costantini et al. (2013) who had some "non-responder" participants who didn't budge until 1500-1800mg/day (free PMC: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23696141/). "Patient numbers 2 and 3 never reported any improvement until the dose was increased up to 1500 mg/day, orally. An abrupt improvement instead occurred at doses of 1800 mg/day." The paper doesn't detail whether this was a split dose or not.
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Thiamine increases uptake of zinc and reduces hemolysis due to deficiency: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15235145/. So maybe thiamin-deficient could also have functional vitamin A deficiency via zinc. Maybe Charlie felt VA-toxic due to thiamin deficiency.
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The larger doses of thiamine are highly dopaminergic to me (especially in concert with other dopamine promoting substances) but I’ve had issue w creaky/dry/sore traps and neck from using it. Including potassium bicarbonate w baking soda at 3:1 ratio (salt/k) has helped some as thiamine seems to cook up minerals pretty quickly.
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@saturnmissiles Woah same... left trap feels cramped. Banking on it normalizing as body finds homeostasis, etc
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@albion Honestly I haven’t found a solution that fixes it yet just ones that ameliorate the problem and it can get pretty bad on either or both sides. I was using it with niacinamide at the same time and that could be causing a similar problem - maybe it’s a methyl donor thing? No idea if I have that “gene” I’m not volunteering my bio data like that voluntarily.
