why do b vitamins make me hungry for beef?
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ever since starting...
- 400mg benfotiamine
- 200mg niacinamide
- 16mg b7
(spread throught out the day with meals)
I now have ravenous appetite for beef. Just plain beef.
I usally find beef very boring but now it tastes delicious, as if I've been starving. I have a background of metabolic issues. The b1 is curing my insulin resistance too.
The taste of beef is so good. I think its the methionine or cysteine. Or perhaps another nutrient.
or possibly something to do with methylation and glutathione? benfothiamine may have effects on glutathione or iron. idk. my iron is in good range, saturation, ferritin etc. all normal.
I am hypothyroid by Ray Peat definitions. 227 cholesterol, 180 triglycerides (which went up after eating Peaty). 1.4 tsh. t3 and t4 "in range".
also my blood pressure skyrockets between meals.
any ideas?
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We would have to know what you're usually eating laddie
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@LinDaiyu
okay.like 160g protein.
like 120g from ground beef. sometime's steak
.5 liter of goat milk2-3 potatoes with ghee
like 300g of carbs from honey and maple syrup
and like a liter of oj and apple juice in total.lots of carbs because my body is very wasteful. b1 has helped that out though. my lactate feels much lower.
I also take like 300Mg pregnenolone, 60mg progesterone. I also take vitamin ADEK. But I have not noticed anything different with these. occasional 100mcg selenium
before this, I used to take a collagen supplement. but I stopped because I don't crave it like before. same for eggs. I think it was the potatoes inhibiting choline breakdown because ever since I reintroduced potatoes, I don't crave eggs. I also don't crave seafood anymore. whereas before I used to.
I can really only see a connection with increasing beef cravings with benfotiamine. its strange how delicious I find beef atm. i think its the amino acids needed to make glutathione or something to do with methylation.
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@skywxlker I'm not sure lad. I can say I've had a similar shift away from eggs after beginning ritual abuse of thiamine hcl.
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@LinDaiyu interesting. i thought it was the potatoes. this is new data for me to work with then.
how was your experience with thiamine hcl? any other changes you noticed for better or worse?
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@skywxlker Makes me about .2 degrees warmer if taken with food or sugar so far
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no clue but I know anorexics are prescribed B-complex to improve their appetite
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@skywxlker said in why do b vitamins make me hungry for beef?:
ever since starting...
- 400mg benfotiamine
- 200mg niacinamide
- 16mg b7
(spread throught out the day with meals)
I now have ravenous appetite for beef. Just plain beef.
I usally find beef very boring but now it tastes delicious, as if I've been starving. I have a background of metabolic issues. The b1 is curing my insulin resistance too.
The taste of beef is so good. I think its the methionine or cysteine. Or perhaps another nutrient.
or possibly something to do with methylation and glutathione? benfothiamine may have effects on glutathione or iron. idk. my iron is in good range, saturation, ferritin etc. all normal.
I am hypothyroid by Ray Peat definitions. 227 cholesterol, 180 triglycerides (which went up after eating Peaty). 1.4 tsh. t3 and t4 "in range".
also my blood pressure skyrockets between meals.
any ideas?
I went through the beefsteak cravings when I started high dosing thiamine too! I had been taking my "optimum" dose (according to Dr. Costantini's protocol) for two days when suddenly my entire digestive tract normalized and I wanted to eat a big steak or three. I had had very low stomach acid so had avoided meat for years but suddenly I craved beefsteak. Tasted fabulous too!
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@mostlylurking
thanks for sharing.what was your dose?
did the cravings go away when you stopped? or slow down over time?
any idea why beef specifically?
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@skywxlker said in why do b vitamins make me hungry for beef?:
@mostlylurking
thanks for sharing.what was your dose?
did the cravings go away when you stopped? or slow down over time?
any idea why beef specifically?
I follow Dr. Costantini's protocol; I take 1 gram of thiamine hcl, 2Xday (=2 grams/day).
The cravings for a steak? I think they resolved within a month. I hadn't been able to eat a steak for maybe 7-8 years. Couldn't swallow it; it got stuck going down. Then couldn't digest it, not enough stomach acid. Happily those problems are gone now (for 3 years so far).
I'm in Texas. We eat a lot of beef here.
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@mostlylurking hey I have another question
So I've been megadosing B1 for the last two weeks. Everything was going well at first but now it seems that even 50mg of B1 seems to drop my blood sugar way too fast and often times makes me hungrier.
Any ideas? B1 was effective for many things. I feel much of symptoms reduced. I was also taking a b complex just to balance things out and occasionaly some minerals.
I believe I'm highly saturated at this point. I'm urged to up the niacinamide from 500mg to 1500mg. B7 from 16mg to 40mg. B5 from 250mg to 500mg.
I know it's complicated. any thoughts appreciated
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@skywxlker said in why do b vitamins make me hungry for beef?:
@mostlylurking hey I have another question
So I've been megadosing B1 for the last two weeks. Everything was going well at first but now it seems that even 50mg of B1 seems to drop my blood sugar way too fast and often times makes me hungrier.
Any ideas? B1 was effective for many things. I feel much of symptoms reduced. I was also taking a b complex just to balance things out and occasionaly some minerals.
I believe I'm highly saturated at this point. I'm urged to up the niacinamide from 500mg to 1500mg. B7 from 16mg to 40mg. B5 from 250mg to 500mg.
I know it's complicated. any thoughts appreciated
B1 facilitates the burning of glucose to make energy (ATP). Which makes your blood sugar go down. Which makes you hungry. If you get hungry, you need to eat to stabilize your blood sugar. It may be that your liver is not able to store enough sugar so that it can release that sugar into your bloodstream when it's needed. Your liver needs to be healthy in order to be able to store that sugar. According to Ray Peat, a healthy liver is able to store enough sugar to keep you going for something like 8 hours. So researching how to improve your liver's health might be a good idea. You might want to get some tests to determine your liver function status?
Are you supplementing with magnesium?
https://www.hormonesmatter.com/why-thiamine-supplementation-requires-magnesium/You believe you're "highly saturated" in what? In thiamine? Thiamine needs to be replenished continuously. It is a water soluble vitamin that gets used in every cell in the body to make energy (ATP). Because it is water soluble, it doesn't stick around very long; it gets peed out. Some thiamine does get stored in the liver but this stored thiamine can get depleted pdq and needs to be replenished or things go south.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/thiamine
"Compared to other micronutrients, body stores of thiamine are low. In addition, thiamine's half-life is only 10 to 14 days. Therefore, a continuous source of dietary thiamine is necessary to prevent deficiency. The recommended daily allowance ranges from 1 to 1.5 mg/day.89 Thiamine in excess of that stored is excreted in the urine. There is no toxicity from over ingestion of thiamine."
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links for your consideration:
Mega-Dose Thiamine: Benefits Beyond Addressing Deficiency Elliot Overton video; he explains why higher doses of thiamine are needed in some situations.
also
Hiding in Plain Sight: Modern Thiamine Deficiency Article written by Dr. Derrick Lonsdale and Dr. Chandler Marrs:
"Classically defined thiamine deficiency (TD) disorders in the context of alcoholism and malnutrition are familiar, taught in science and health textbooks from high school onward, and yet, for all of that familiarity, not only are most severe cases of deficiency missed, but the early stages, where symptoms are most easily treated, are entirely disregarded [2]. This is likely due in part to the fact that late 19th and early 20th century descriptions, which still hold sway today, portray the TD as an outcome of starvation-based malnutrition, where emaciation is a common visual. In food secure countries, where obesity reigns, it is difficult to consider TD within this context. Symptoms also may be overlooked in countries where fortified foods comprise the majority of calories and thiamine intake is estimated to be above the recommended daily allowance (RDA). Under these circumstances, TD is considered rare. Decades of research data, discussed later in this paper, suggest that it is not and find overt deficiency in large swaths of patient populations not designated as being at risk via familiar parameters. These individuals are not underfed and they are not likely to consume less than the RDA recommended amount of thiamine. Indeed, they are more likely to be overfed, sometimes obese, and to consume sufficient thiamine based on the current RDA values. This begs many questions, not the least of which is whether we are conceptualizing nutrient deficiency too rigidly.""I believe I'm highly saturated at this point. I'm urged to up the niacinamide from 500mg to 1500mg. B7 from 16mg to 40mg. B5 from 250mg to 500mg."
Ray Peat said that taking small doses of niacinamide more frequently works best. It's a water soluble vitamin so it only sticks around for a couple of hours. I've found that, for myself, taking 100mg of niacinamide 4 times a day works better than taking 200mg of niacinamide 2 times a day.
B7 (biotin): I do supplement with a small amount of biotin. Biotin is some pretty powerful stuff. I'd research it further before increasing the dose and pay attention to your body's response to it.
B5: I reacted very badly to a single capsule (500mg) of B5, prescribed by a doctor years ago. I had two very bad nights from that one capsule. I won't try that again. Do your due diligence before swallowing anything. Don't take stuff on a lark. Research first, try a tiny dose, evaluate your body's response.
If you are experimenting with multiple things at once, you will not be able to discern which supplement is doing what. It's is much better to experiment with one new supplement at a time.
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@mostlylurking thanks for the thought out reply.
I took 5g of thiamine a day for like 3 days. And slowly over the last two weeks I have become more sensitive to it. It has resolved my tachycardia, blood pressure, lactate, and stomach sensitivity to a large degree.
I was also taking small doses of the other B vitamins.
Now I am only taking 300mgs. Having gradually reduced the dose since megadosing. I took 5g spread out over the day because thats the only thing that helped! truly saved my butt.I do take magnesium. However yesterday, just 60mg gave me diarrhea. Not sure why. It could have been something else. But this isnt the first time I had this issue with mag.
I'm so hungry for animal meat and milk. And more so when I increased B3 and B5. So I'm trying to understand if I am need of a certain nutrient or if I'm going through a refeeding like stage
I have heard that this may be some sort of refeeding thing. but I'm not sure.
I do spread my supps over the course of the day.
I think youre right about the liver and glycogen stores. I'm taking taurine now to see if that helps.
Did you take that B5 in one dose?
I start incredibly small when introducing supplements. I started with just 50mgs of B5.
I plan to do some testing to assess my health.
thanks for your help
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@skywxlker said in why do b vitamins make me hungry for beef?:
@mostlylurking thanks for the thought out reply.
I took 5g of thiamine a day for like 3 days. And slowly over the last two weeks I have become more sensitive to it. It has resolved my tachycardia, blood pressure, lactate, and stomach sensitivity to a large degree.
I think that it is very important to try to be consistent with your dosing of thiamine because you want your body to learn that it can rely on its availability. When there's a deficiency, the body makes workarounds so you don't die. Stability/consistency is a good thing.You may find this video helpful.
I was also taking small doses of the other B vitamins.
Now I am only taking 300mgs. Having gradually reduced the dose since megadosing. I took 5g spread out over the day because thats the only thing that helped! truly saved my butt.I'm guessing that you mean that you are only taking 300mgs of thiamine? Thiamine hcl? You are reporting positive response to the high dose though. But you stopped it. Yes?
Dr. Costantini treated thousands of patients with Parkinson's Disease via high dose thiamine hcl. His website has a lot of very helpful information that they developed at their clinic. I think it would help you to read through it. Dr. Costantini talked about inviting his patients to stop the thiamine for a while so they could experience what would happen. He said that the patients would be okay for perhaps a couple of months but then the symptoms would return. This gave the patients confirmation that they needed to stay on the thiamine in order to stay well.
Who is Dr. Costantinipatients' before and after videos
I do take magnesium. However yesterday, just 60mg gave me diarrhea. Not sure why. It could have been something else. But this isnt the first time I had this issue with mag.
According to Elliot Overton, tolerance for magnesium massively improves from taking high dose thiamine. I did find that to be the case. Dr. Costantini was very much concerned that magnesium would upset his patients' digestive tracts so he was not as gung ho about magnesium and was more inclined to recommend his patients take 75mgs of magnesium per week. So opinions vary.
I take magnesium glycinate, 3100mgs per day, divided into 2 doses. This dose equals to 400mg of pure magnesium. I do not have any negative symptoms from taking that much now. However, prior to taking high dose thiamine hcl for several months, I did not take as much magnesium, more like 250 mg of magnesium glycinate and I did experience negative effects from it. I know that I benefit from taking the higher dose of magnesium that I take now.
Some types of magnesium supplements are harder on the digestive tract than others. I personally like magnesium glycinate.
I'm so hungry for animal meat and milk. And more so when I increased B3 and B5. So I'm trying to understand if I am need of a certain nutrient or if I'm going through a refeeding like stage
If you are hungry, you should eat nutritious food. Ray Peat's articles provide good guidance as to what that means. That said, if you are having problems with thiamine deficiency/functional blockage, it would be a good idea to avoid coffee, black tea, and abundant sugars/starches; coffee and tea block thiamine and sugar/starches use it up.
If you are hungry for meat and milk, then eat/drink it and enjoy!
I have heard that this may be some sort of refeeding thing. but I'm not sure.
Pay attention to your body; if you get hungry you should eat nutritious food.
I do spread my supps over the course of the day.
Dr. Costantini advised to take thiamine twice per day, once mid-morning and again mid-afternoon.
I think youre right about the liver and glycogen stores. I'm taking taurine now to see if that helps.
The liver needs thiamine to be able to do its job. But it will take some time to heal. Taurine might be helpful, I don't have any knowledge about it.
Did you take that B5 in one dose?
Yes, like a fool, I followed the doctor's instructions. Terrible experience!
I start incredibly small when introducing supplements. I started with just 50mgs of B5.
If I choose to try B5 again, it will be in a small dose of 35-50mgs of it.
I plan to do some testing to assess my health.
Good plan.
thanks for your help
You're welcome.
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@mostlylurking I sincerely appreciate your thorough responses and for leading me in the right direction. I will make sure to check out those resources!
anyway, yes. I am now only taking 300mg of thiamine HCl as it has become too strong. It drops my blood sugar too fast and reintroduces excess unwantrd hunger. Since I am still quite satiated from the meal before. Two weeks ago I took 5-7 grams for about 3 days and over that time span I have reduced the amount of thiamine gradually due to the large drops in blood glucose. I now take about 50mg spread throughout the day.
I might try a different form of magnesium. When my metabolism is better, I have noticed this issue with magnesium. I believe I am retaining it.
Also, last night I reduced the B5 significantly and increased niacinamide and biotin quite significantly to 1g and 45mg respectively. The results were astounding. I felt the best I have ever felt with chronic fatigue syndrome and long covid. I felt normal for the first time in years. By no means near healthy but it was an incredible feeling.
I have tried this combo of b3 and b7 not long ago. alongside thiamine ttfd. however I believe the intial megadoses of B1 helped me breakthrough bottlenecks. I also feel that B3 and B7 together are working synergystically. Because I have tried one or the other recently, without the same effects.
I also slept 7 hours straight for the first time. I always always pee at night a few times.
You were right about B5 I believe. It did make me feel worse. I'm also taking 3mg of folinic acid and 40mg B6 spread throughout the day. And a few minerals in very small doses. like selenium, manganese, molydenum, zinc, coppper. I believe these two are having positive effects. Although I am I need of testing to assess mineral status.
I am taking meticulous notes about everything I consume and feel.
Food for thought in case this anecdote would be of interest to you.
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@skywxlker said in why do b vitamins make me hungry for beef?:
@mostlylurking I sincerely appreciate your thorough responses and for leading me in the right direction. I will make sure to check out those resources!
anyway, yes. I am now only taking 300mg of thiamine HCl as it has become too strong. It drops my blood sugar too fast and reintroduces excess unwantrd hunger. Since I am still quite satiated from the meal before. Two weeks ago I took 5-7 grams for about 3 days and over that time span I have reduced the amount of thiamine gradually due to the large drops in blood glucose. I now take about 50mg spread throughout the day.
Are you wanting to restore your body's function while simultaneously losing weight? i don't understand. How can you still be "satiated from the meal before" and also be hungry? Satiated is the opposite of Hungry, yes?
I might try a different form of magnesium. When my metabolism is better, I have noticed this issue with magnesium. I believe I am retaining it.
Also, last night I reduced the B5 significantly and increased niacinamide and biotin quite significantly to 1g and 45mg respectively. The results were astounding. I felt the best I have ever felt with chronic fatigue syndrome and long covid. I felt normal for the first time in years. By no means near healthy but it was an incredible feeling.
The problem with wildly altering dosages of multiple things at once is that it is impossible to tell which did what.
I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome about 25 years ago and suffered from it for many years. The symptoms resolved completely via high dose thiamine hcl.
(and magnesium, a little riboflavin, a little niacinamide, some progesterone, some pregnenolone, avoidance of all pufa....)I have tried this combo of b3 and b7 not long ago. alongside thiamine ttfd. however I believe the intial megadoses of B1 helped me breakthrough bottlenecks. I also feel that B3 and B7 together are working synergystically. Because I have tried one or the other recently, without the same effects.
I also slept 7 hours straight for the first time. I always always pee at night a few times.
You were right about B5 I believe. It did make me feel worse. I'm also taking 3mg of folinic acid and 40mg B6 spread throughout the day. And a few minerals in very small doses. like selenium, manganese, molydenum, zinc, coppper. I believe these two are having positive effects. Although I am I need of testing to assess mineral status.
You should get your minerals tested so you don't get yourself into trouble. I developed high manganese simply by consuming maple syrup.
https://labs.selfdecode.com/blog/manganese-toxicity/I am taking meticulous notes about everything I consume and feel.
Food for thought in case this anecdote would be of interest to you.
Sorry, but from where I'm sitting, it appears that you are throwing gobs of stuff at a wall to see what sticks. Get yourself tested to find possible mineral deficiencies/toxicities. My manganese toxicity appeared out of nowhere, and I sure miss that maple syrup....
