How does Coffee differ from T3 or T4 supplementation

bengobeil

I understand it lower TSH, but not sure how exactly it "simulates" thyroid hormone.

How does one know whether they should drink coffee, supplement thyroid or both?

Ofc blood tests help, let's say I have T3 and T4 in range, but TSH of 3.

Thanks

Mulloch94

@bengobeil said in How does Coffee differ from T3 or T4 supplementation:

How does one know whether they should drink coffee, supplement thyroid or both?

In short, if you're hypothyroid, take thyroid. Nothing else will fill that gap.

The lower TSH is generally speaking the better your thyroid is. TSH above 2.5 mIU/L is associated with greater all cause mortality, and 2.5 isn't even the clinically defined as hypothyroid yet. So there's a bit of a discrepancy between what the medical community would call hypothyroidism and what the science actually says is dangerous. There's plenty of people walking around with TSH's below 5 but above 2.5. They're at an increase risk of chronic disease, especially heart disease. But doctors won't do anything about it. If you exist in that "sub clinical" but dangerous range and no one will prescribe you thyroid you could try surrogates like caffeine. But caffeine is more adrenergic than thyroid, and people with low thyroid tend to have more adrenaline. So coffee could make the situation worse if you're already prone to adrenaline surges.

Kvirion

@Mulloch94 Agreed.
Moreover, one can mitigate adrenergic effects of caffeine with (added) theanine and taurine. Plus milk and sugar obviously.

For me ADEK vitamins + Selenium, Magnesium, and Zinc at first (as I was recovering from long-term keto) and then a diet according to Ray's advice helped my thyroids a lot

BTW @bengobeil Ray often mentioned that TSH should equal 1 or be even slightly below...

bengobeil

I'm getting good results with coffee, had to reduce my dose (I was using 1000mg on accident lol),

Down to 200mg.

Energy is great tbh, sleep is great.

Probably need to do an update blood panel.

Kvirion

@bengobeil said in How does Coffee differ from T3 or T4 supplementation:

Energy is great tbh, sleep is great.

Good to hear. Curious about your newest blood results.

Mulloch94

@Kvirion Yeah, I actually prefer the taste of plain black coffee, but when I drink it I'll always eat some sugar with it. Usually an apple due to the high fructose content. I actually use to put gelatin in my coffee as well. I don't do it anymore simply because I got tired of doing the extra step lmao. I didn't notice it changing my response to caffeine much anyways, so I thought it was a bit redundant.

Kvirion

@Mulloch94 Sounds good!
I'm probably in an early stage of healing, so I still feel a need to add theanine/taurine or gelatine to my coffee. And I love it with milk.

Regarding my thyroid, I reflected yesterday that adequate vitamin A and Calcium helped me most on my recovery (from keto) journey. Coffee and Aspirin score second.

Mulloch94

@Kvirion theanine and taurine directly oppose adrenaline by augmenting GABA. Caffeine/Coffee is a GABA antagonist, so I guess these conflict to the point of canceling out the majority of the adrenaline surge. I've seen a lot people report they can acquire the nootropic effects from coffee without the jitteriness when they use theanine with caffeine.

zoro

@Mulloch94 would it be the same if mixing green tea with coffee?

Kvirion

@Mulloch94 said in How does Coffee differ from T3 or T4 supplementation:

@Kvirion theanine and taurine directly oppose adrenaline by augmenting GABA. Caffeine/Coffee is a GABA antagonist, so I guess these conflict to the point of canceling out the majority of the adrenaline surge.

Good point, thanks!

@zoro Ray had mixed opinions about green tea: it contains beneficial caffeine but GT is also a bit estrogenic because of polyphenols. Moreover, tannins in tea aren't healthy.

Sources:

Mulloch94

@zoro said in How does Coffee differ from T3 or T4 supplementation:

@Mulloch94 would it be the same if mixing green tea with coffee?

I have no clue. My intuition tells me green tea's theanine content probably only has enough to counter the negative effects of the caffeine in the tea, mixing it with coffee may require additional theanine since coffee's caffeine content is considerably higher than tea's.

zoro

@Kvirion Thanks! Used to drink it some evenings. Did wonders to my high stress at the time, I bit too much to be honest. I don’t drink it anymore

zoro

@Mulloch94 I should check this