Looking for experiences with metergoline
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@saturnuscv I think metergoline increases dopamine according to Haidut's thread on RPF. Supposedly it's an agonist at D2. D2 is the autoreceptor, so it would be beneficial to know if it's agonizing the pre-synaptic receptors or the post-synaptic receptors. If it's the former than it probably reduced dopamine. But I'm not sure that makes sense in light of the fact metergoline has been shown in human studies to lower prolactin. Unless it's lowering prolactin through a pathway independent of dopamine...which is possible I guess.
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@Mulloch94 oh I was referring to the blue lotus. Sorry for not being clear.
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You have direct experience with blue lotus? Most of what I've read from users say that it is just placebo snake oil. There are tons of compounds that look sexy on paper, but don't do much.
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@bobby-pukes said in Looking for experiences with metergoline:
You have direct experience with blue lotus? Most of what I've read from users say that it is just placebo snake oil. There are tons of compounds that look sexy on paper, but don't do much.
Yes, the product I use works every time I've taken it. Blue Lotus lacks quality control, so maybe certain vendors have weaker stuff. And people use it in different ways. Some mix it in alcohol, some smoke it, some use tinctures or extracts. All of these can result in profoundly different outcomes. I also get the impression many people are trying it out for it's purported "psychotropic" effects. This is very mild to nonexistent in my opinion.If someone is looking for a cannabis replacement and they decide to try blue lotus they'll probably be disappointed.
I do notice the aphrodisiac effect though, and that's common given it's dopamine agonism and serotonin antagonism. If you're interested in trying a product, a good product, I recommend Kratora's 50x extract. It's the one I use. I just weigh out a 1 gram serving on my scales and chase it down with some fluid. Preferably on a empty or semi-empty stomach.
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You can read about it's active ingredients Apomorphine and Nuciferine if you want. That's also why I recommend using extracts and not flower, you'll get more of the beneficial compounds at a higher concentration.
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@Mulloch94 How long do the effects last for you?
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@peatyzilian It's strongest for me within the first couple hours. I experience residual effects for another couple hours after that. The aphrodisiac effects wear off fairly quickly. I still feel an elevated mood from the dopamine for several hours. It seems to reduce my blood pressure as well, which I think is to be expected. Agonism at D2, serotonin antagonism, and alpha-adrenergic antaognism have all been shown to lower blood pressure, and it works on all these sites together.
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Thanks for the link. Yes, I would like to try it. Also useful that you say it's nothing like cannabis (I think the way it's marketed results in people thinking it will be similar).
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@bobby-pukes said in Looking for experiences with metergoline:
Thanks for the link. Yes, I would like to try it. Also useful that you say it's nothing like cannabis (I think the way it's marketed results in people thinking it will be similar).
I don't think it is. I was a pretty heavy cannabis user for much of my teenage and young adult life. From about 19-22, I was using it daily and multiple times a day. It would not be out of the ordinary to smoke around an eighth per day, ounce per week. Blue Lotus feels nothing like cannabis to me, both in terms of familiarity and in terms of intensity.
But I should point out I take the extract orally, and that's how I'd recommend people taking it. I suppose the people who smoke the flower might get different side effects.
If I was still a drug user, I might would consider trying blue lotus with MDMA. They aren't similar in any respects, but "on paper" it looks like it would be a good match. the Blue Lotus might augment the dopaminergic response while blunting some of MDMA's serotonergic effects. But someone else would have to be a lab rat for that experiment, lol.
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Sorry about getting this thread off-topic, lol. In terms of metergoline, it gets the job done. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with taking veterinary medicine. After all they make aspirin and antibiotics for vets as well. But there's also several human studies using metergoline on PudMed you can find to. So we have positive human testing with this compound, showing it will lower prolactin in human. I just probably wouldn't use it when the price is high as it is, and the fact lisuride elicits a better feeling to me for the same price. And if you're looking for that 5-HT2 blockade that can be very beneficial for a variety of reasons, I think blue lotus would be better considering it's cheaper and easier to come by.
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One unique thing about metergoline is the 5-HT1A antagonism. But I don't know how well this serves the user in the long run. If you follow some of the rhetoric on the PSSD forum many of them believe auto-receptor insensitivity can be an issue for sexual function.
If that's the case metergoline might help in ways many other serotonin antagonists can't help. Metergoline and cyproheptadine are the only ones I know that antagonize the pre-synapitc 5-HT1A receptors. And metergoline's usefulness for this is better than cypro considering it lacks the drowsiness.
But I'm not sure how much stock I put into the whole autoreceptor insensitivity thing. That forum has a lot of wacky theories regarding estrogen "insensitivity" too. One guy featured on there is pinning straight estradiol and has ungodly high amounts of E2, lol.
Generally speaking, in terms of sexual function, the serotonin receptors worth antagonizing are post-synaptic 5-HT1A, 5-HT1B, 5-HT1D, 5-HT2 blockade (2a, 2b, 2c), and 5-HT4. If literally none of that helps your libido, then your sexual dysfunction is not likely to be a result of serotonin.
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@Mulloch94 Took 1.5mg and felt nothing on it.
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@Mulloch94 I
ve heard that agonism at 5-HT1A receptor its not a big deal, actually would be good because that receptor inhibits - or regulate - serotonergic transmission -
@peatyzilian said in Looking for experiences with metergoline:
Took 1.5mg and felt nothing on it.
That's a pretty low dose. I would be surprised if it does anything at that dosage unless you're a "hyper responder" of some sort. Most of the human testing I've seen people taking between 12-18 milligrams daily (R). Usually 4-6mgs 3x daily. So I would at least take 4mgs and see if you feel anything.
@peatyzilian said in Looking for experiences with metergoline:
Ive heard that agonism at 5-HT1A receptor its not a big deal, actually would be good because that receptor inhibits - or regulate - serotonergic transmission
You heard correctly, but the argument on the PSSD forum is insensitivity leads to a situation where briefly antagonizing 1A can cause a rebound effect that can be overall beneficial to ssri-induced sexual dysfunction. But this idea is kinda fringe in my opinion.
Also it's only the pre-synaptic 1A's that act as the autoreceptors, resulting in lower serotonin. The post-synaptic 1A receptors should ideally be kept as inactive as possible. They can increase serotonin, prolactin, ACTH, etc.
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Did you ever end up trying higher doses? I've gone up to 10mg per day with the current bottle that I have, and i have felt absolutely nothing from it, not even constipation. This is strange, because when I first purchased metergoline from IdeaLabs back in 2017 (when it first came out), I definitely noticed effects relating to energy (made me feel very tired) and bowel function (constipation). I ended up quitting it due to these side effects, before I could gauge whether it was helping with other things (mood, libido, etc).
I then purchased a bottle in 2021 and got wonderful anti-depressive effects from it. This solution was based in eugenol. All it would take would be a few drops (4mg-6mg).
But the bottle I have most recently bought from 2023 (which I still have), just doesn't seem to do anything at all. I cant remember what solution its based in, but the eugenol is no longer there. No effects or side effects. It's a disappointment because I obviously won't be buying this product again from IdeaLabs (even though i am still a customer with them for other things). I am very tempted to try and source it from an online pharmacy to try and see if that will give me those great effects that I once experienced from the 2021 bottle.
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@DukesBobby777 No, i didn't, because this drug eventually would be too expensive to keep doing it. Actually, i'm on Mirtazapine 30mg, an atypical antidepressant that it's a serotonin antagonist very similar to Metergoline bc it acts specifically of the 5-ht2 receptors and i'm getting good results (althought i'm thinking about increasing the dose to 45mg). If you have high serotonin symptoms i would give it a try, I get the prescription monthly from my psychiatrist and since I started it my symptoms have drastically reduced