Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?
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Some very interesting questions in the @Tahodama. The internet itself is constantly in motion. A globulus mass without clear direction, growth or regression rate.
So it will be different inter and intra generationally. Meanwhile, people are tending to become wise to its nature and effect as they get older. Some tuning out, some doubling down, some taking breaks.
What the hell are we doing here. (With humour.)
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Very well written.
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@Tahodama said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
@Peatly I am curious how much internet culture will bleed into real life as age demographics shift and old stock die off. Right now the most representation you get is fast food Twitter accounts posting viral ironic ifunny memes, or "Pokémon go to the polls"-tier politicians referencing something hip, at the suggestion of some media manager. Will this ever change? Will there be a point where a politician can talk casually about what video games they played, or what community they frequented, or will it always appear to be neutered and performive? Many factors at play when answering that question (the social hazards of most internet culture being just one example). I don't think incel or other "loner/loser" culture will be referenced by huge voices, unless it were in derision by some embittered communist feminist.
The more people become disillusioned with MSM the more they gravitate toward alternatives on the internet. With the exception of those who use social media for business, the allure might diminish faster than older mediums did (fashion and gossip magazines for instance). People will still gravitate towards it, social media, during times of crisis but once the medium is completely controlled and manipulated by TPTB people will start to mistrust it. Perhaps, they won’t withdrawal entirely instead invent more intelligent, decentralised, ways to interact and navigate the social media terrain.
Politics will always be performative because it, and the politicians, are inherently corrupt. They have to be or else they wouldn’t be given a platform.
The voices of what you call “embittered communist feminist” are probably amplified by those who want us engaged in culture wars so we don’t notice they are robbing us dry. Why punch up when you can punch down? As for incels - the term is being weaponised and like other weaponised terms there is a shelf life.
It is also possible that I don’t have a clue because I am not a big fan of social media so I am hardly the best person to forecast its future.
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@Tahodama Didn't read your pathetic, sickening writings. I'm in a happy long term relationship with my future wife. You need to get your shit together.
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@Ray-Peat-Fanboy 90-90% is way too high an estiamte, probably closer to 30%
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Most men are incel nowadays. I would even say that its more rare to NOT be an incel than to be one.
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@Ray-Peat-Fanboy said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
Would you say that 80 - 90 % (perhaps even 95 %) of men in the west are incel?
honest question: how would you guys even know? you don't interact with humanity. your experiences are not representative whatsoever. it's ridiculous. go outside.
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@CO3 I frankly doubt your standard of "having shit together" has much depth. You would be fine with someone being a loser so long as they were a "decent fucking person", and conversely spiteful of a successful person if their mannerisms disturbed you.
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Bro this thread is filled with mega cope, lol. A man should never strive to be an incel. It's bottom tier existence. Estrogen dominant losers.
Incels are not the same thing as men choosing to remain single because they're tired of "hookup culture." Perhaps this is what you mean when you actually say incel. But that's not what those type of men are. They're just tired of how the dating market is, and opt for a more "trad" lifestyle. Many of which result to marrying women from different countries.
Incels are ideologically driven by the hatred of women. They're dangerous, not mentally healthy, and are a good example why women should be conceal carrying firearms wherever they go.
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@Mulloch94 That's a good way to spike deaths from unintended discharges and otherwise incompetent gun handling.
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@Tahodama I'm more concerned about the next school shooting because a incel got "mortally emotionally wounded" from being rejected by some girl he had a crush on.
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@Mulloch94 I see. So INCELS are the reason you can't go to low-income neighborhoods at night. INCELS are the reason gun crime is so high. INCELS are the reason rape is so common. Maybe if more people got MOFUGGIN PUSSAY then all of society's problems would go poof. It's the INCEL'S FAULT he can't find joy in living around obese knuckle-dragging hall monitors thirsting to pounce on the slightest infraction. It's the INCEL'S FAULT he doesn't want to emasculate himself in order to find a mate.
Actually their reactions are quite rational. You're the one with the burden of proof by saying that young men should be expected to be put through all of this with a smile.
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@Tahodama I'm not being personal, just looking at your terminology -- it reveals a deep seated problem with sexuality, using terms like vulgar and hypersexual and gluttonous and pathetic knub.
Humans developed proportionately large genitals, and hidden estrous, for a reason. For a man, sex drive is the key to success and achievement.
For a woman, sex drive is the key to realizing the pleasures and joys of having children and a family.
There is a way to harness sex drive for men that can help them achieve almost anything and lead a life of incredible pleasure.
I think there is a lot of work that people such as yourself can be doing to become a lot more sex positive.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
more sex positive
This is gay-speak free zone. Go to reddit with stuff like this.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster Prepended note: "Pathetic knub" is not the same as the other items you listed; it deals less with sexuality and more with man's dignity or honor, which is easily reduced today by various forces to the point he becomes a socially impotent and vapid creature. Most people would agree this is a bad thing unless they subscribe to shallow obama-era nihilism and say honor "isn't real" and is merely a projection of "fragile male ego" or something unthoughtful like that.
Your point is understandable. I'm aware of the idea that puritanical types have "repressed sexualities" (repressed by what?) which makes their ideas seem pathological, and for its own sake I'll cede that there is an excess of sexual disgust insofar as it leads one to disdain those things that God created, or even instituted for man's wellbeing, which is erroneous for implying God made a mistake in His creating us.
But I don't think God intended for us to flaunt our sexuality immodestly, at least not post-fall, either. Or I can put it in another, simpler way, which is that having zero disgust for sexuality seems to lead to: sodomitical acts being celebrated, balding millenials using phrases like "shit and cum" frivolously, female comedians talking about their vagina every 5 seconds, people having the most grotesque and fowl taste in the erotic arts (this includes specifically things like obese fetishes and genital obsessions), orgies and other desecrations of the romantic aspects of sex, and lastly in an abstract sense creates this negroidic (because they're especially guilty of this) lack of respect for sex, which ironically reduces all of the mystique and excitement to be had in the act, leaving nothing but a self-gratifying pastime of mere fluid exchange. If you want to find where all the "sex positivity" is, I suggest looking at groups of 30 year olds living together in polyamorous relationships, and you can tell me if the people there are virile and full of life.
None of these components I would deem part of a higher civilization, and frankly I'd go to great lengths to avoid all of them. And I think instead one should hone their sense of disgust, because without it you lose all taste and sensibility, and with which will naturally result in the exclusion of many sexual phenomena that is considered "normal" today. It might be "repression," or it might be dissatisfaction. In any case, one needs to provide proof for why it's a "problem." How would these inclinations hurt society? -
@Ray-Peat-Fanboy said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
Would you say that 80 - 90 % (perhaps even 95 %) of men in the west are incel?
To be an "incel" (how do modern people come up with all those fancy terms nowadays?), you would have to have severe erectile dysfunction, live in a very conservative country or be pretty poor (which, to be fair, is not seldom the case). Because if you want sex, you could always visit a hooker. If you don't want that because of moral reasons, which is perfectly understandable and reasonable, you're not an "incel". You've made a conscious and deliberate decision.
I agree with Peatly that the introduction of the "incel movement" and the "anti incel movement" is just one more deliberate move to have normal people fight among themselves instead of the ruling class.
@DonkeyDude said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
@Ray-Peat-Fanboy said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
men who are incel without being aware of it.
How is that even possible? A guy thinks he is having sex, but in reality he is not?
Some guys who watch porn 24/7 (so almost every young(ish) guy) probably really think that they have sex while rubbing one out to pixels on a screen, although rather subconsciously. I don't think the brain can really tell the difference.
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@Luke said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
To be an "incel" (how do modern people come up with all those fancy terms nowadays?),
This kind of thing is not new. Look up drapetomania
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Incels dont hate women (they dont hate people in general either)
Just because a man is unable to get a long term girlfriend , or have sex , doesn't mean that he is automatically going to be filled with hatred towards people lol . Some of them might feel lonely or depressed but thats all. Being unable to get a girlfriend or sex doesn't make you a bad person.
That logic is like saying that a person with a disability who cant walk will hate people who can walk . Doesn't make any sense.
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To be an "incel" (how do modern people come up with all those fancy terms nowadays?), you would have to have severe erectile dysfunction, live in a very conservative country or be pretty poor (which, to be fair, is not seldom the case). Because if you want sex, you could always visit a hooker. If you don't want that because of moral reasons, which is perfectly understandable and reasonable, you're not an "incel". You've made a conscious and deliberate decision.
Andrew Anglin, one of the more thoughtful people from the remnants of /pol/ alt right, defended the modern usage of incel by likening it to gambling: Would you say someone who refuses to partake in a rigged system is "voluntarily not a gambler"? No, that's just someone making a rational decision based on his self-interest. There was not much voluntary choosing, because it implies a significant amount of agency in a decision that was obvious to make. Note here that he thinks choosing to abstain from the dating market is a positive decision, for he elaborates on how many men get screwed over by divorce, harassment accusations, pregnancies, etc, to the point that "voluntarily celibate" is an entirely redundant phrase.
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@Ray-Peat-Fanboy Envy is a type of resentment. A feeling of being unjustly treated: "I deserve to have what they have!"
But you are right, insofar as the specific group of self-identified incels we are talking about, self-internalized social failures, often end up directing contempt inwardly toward themselves. This is what leads to the "I'm a loser, I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo" mantra that makes them listen to sad rock bands like Radiohead or whatever. If you actually go into these circles you'll see a lot of Indians and browns developing a sort of impotent self-conception with self-fulfilling prophecies about them being inadequate individuals.Women intuitively sense a different type of incel however, at least in addition to the aforementioned one, one that I've been trying to elaborate on, which is an antisocial type who directs their contempt outwardly, and who for the most part think they are actually quite self-confident people. These people are incel for their "social maladjustment," although these incels would instead argue they are merely abstaining from socializing either for their own benefit or from a lack of interest and even disdain for social activities.
