Glucose loading cures everything?
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@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@Insomniac said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
This is the video of Garrett calling Dr. Stephens a crook. It starts at the attack.
Thank you for timestamping that.
My pleasure.
That's a defamation lawsuit right there unless it's true. Calling a Dr. of Psychology a fraud/"shyster" is serious.
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@Insomniac so I listened to this with a somewhat open mind, (unfortunately I can’t help but judge this particular guy when I see/hear him - just something seems off putting to me) but it seems like he hasn’t actually listened to Dr Stephens, and I say this because Dr Stephens intends glucose to be a temporary therapy. Once you correct the effects of a glucose limiting injury you stop taking glucose. In the video, Smith says, maybe temporarily glucose could have a positive effect, (like filling glycogen stores) but long term any sugar powder is going to be bad. It seems to me, that this is exactly what Dr Stephens is suggesting… indicating that perhaps Smith has not looked too deeply into it.
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Yeah, he didn't seem familiar with the protocol and he was obviously looking for reasons to put dextrose therapy down but I agreed with all of his reasons to be skeptical of Stevens and it's good to make sure he is credible which just takes a little time and effort. Maybe some patient interviews would help.
Smith's major point is that a 100% cure rate is absurd and proves Stephens is a fraud and I agree a perfect cure rate is hard to believe but Stephens adds that this applies to people who "complete" his program so maybe there's some nuance to this.
If there is any chance he's faking success then I would want to know before getting my hopes up.
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The protocol has merit, and is ironically becoming a full circle moment for the RPF. Dr. Stephens and Ray are touching in the same idea but from different perspectives.
It’s odd nobody considered dextrose years ago instead of blowing themselves up on table sugar.
As for Garrett, that’s his canned response for new ideas unless you drown him with research papers like what happened with niacin. He’s established his ecosystem and isn’t going to upset the apple cart.
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@Jaffe I’ve been thinking the same thing. Like the elephant in the room is this is essentially Peat’s work with a minor nuance. Loading glucose instead of fixing oxidative phosphorylation so you can make glucose without gluconeogenesis.
FWIW, I always had trouble with digestion, and so it just makes sense to me to take glucose directly. Though like usual, I’m sure Peat’s approach is more appropriate and obviously respectful to the elegance of life.
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I also have a history of sports related head trauma, terrible digestion, random mood swings, sub clinical hypothyroidism. My early experience with dextrose has been very promising.
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The reason to focus on the 100% cure-all claim is because it would be absurd to assume that he is only lying about one thing. Anyone who agrees that this is a lie has no rational reason to assume the rest of his claims are honest.
These forums are filled will people that have been tricked over and over again. Many have been injured dozens of times. Lives have been ruined and lost from frauds trying to make a buck but people can't stop getting sucked in because they're desperate.
I'm just tired of getting tricked into stupid protocols that don't work but hopefully god did in fact to talk to Dr. Stephens and then directed him to the greatest discovery of all time and it was right under our noses all along,
Dextrose is cheap, easy and all my food tastes better. It even cures structurally damaged brains and has no downside at all except that it sounds too good to be true.
My one other thought is that placebos are very effective. They have the ability to alter our physiology. Combining the promise of a cure and then consuming large amounts of a white powder all day should create a very powerful placebo effect and this is why you need decent research and testing to see if it actual works. A few positive anecdotes are not a substitute for testing although they are nice to hear.
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@Insomniac said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
except that it sounds too good to be true
You have good ears in my opinion. Because it's manufactured by hydrolytic and enzymatic process. Although someone could make a case that extraction of sugar is similar. I wouldn't personally.
Honey contains it unbonded, but it's often if not always heavier in fructose. And other stuff.
I get the feeling something is underlying all of this. I think it's this...
@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Which led me to think it might be osmotic.
Or rather, hydrodynamic.
But I would say that. I've occasionally schizo-posted about fluid dynamics for a while, and other people nudged me there. Maybe it's something else.
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Also Torrens posted this yesterday. And had posted previously an indication he had perspiration issues.
And sure enough...
https://www.google.com/search?q=epilepsy+fluid+balance+study
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@Jaffe said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
It’s odd nobody considered dextrose years ago instead of blowing themselves up on table sugar.
I think because Ray said that you should never take glucose without some fructose (was it because of the insulin spike? I cannot remember), so Ray advocated that sugar could be therapeutic but has never, as far as I know, advocated for using just dextrose/glucose. May somebody correct if I'm wrong about this.
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I think because Ray said that you should never take glucose without some fructose (was it because of the insulin spike? I cannot remember), so Ray advocated that sugar could be therapeutic but has never, as far as I know, advocated for using just dextrose/glucose. May somebody correct if I'm wrong about this.
Right. In Dr. Peat's interviews he would say starch was inferior because it was pure glucose and therefore more fattening by causing a larger insulin spike.
Dextrose powder will be more effective at increasing blood glucose and inducing hyperglycemia than table sugar.
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@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
You have good ears in my opinion. Because it's manufactured by hydrolytic and enzymatic process. Although someone could make a case that extraction of sugar is similar. I wouldn't personally.
Honey contains it unbonded, but it's often if not always heavier in fructose. And other stuff.
I get the feeling something is underlying all of this. I think it's this...
@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Which led me to think it might be osmotic.
Or rather, hydrodynamic.
But I would say that. I've occasionally schizo-posted about fluid dynamics for a while, and other people nudged me there. Maybe it's something else.
Damn! Now I have to learn about fluid dynamics lol. I'm completely ignorant on the topic.
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@Insomniac said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Dextrose is cheap, easy and all my food tastes better. It even cures structurally damaged brains and has no downside at all except that it sounds too good to be true.
Missing/deformed tissue is a limitation. He makes this point in one of his presentations that’s been shared on RPF.
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@Jaffe said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Missing/deformed tissue is a limitation. He makes this point in one of his presentations that’s been shared on RPF.
Then he should revise his cure rate.
Btw, the common term for a placebo is a sugar pill. But you might as well call it glucose or dextrose pill which Stevens recommends getting from the pharmacy.
I'm open minded to the possibility that he's discovered something amazing. It would be an earth shattering, world changing discovery and I hope it's for real but let's look through the evidence that he's collected and vet him and his results completely. Then we can nominate him for a Nobel prize because he would deserve it if it's all true.
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I stole this gem from the RP forum. (Finally! A discussion I'm actually interested in over there.) Hope they don't mind.
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@S-Holmes If I tried to consume that much glucose eating other carbs and sucrose I would gain way too much weight. I'm reading that people are seeing their blood sugar levels drop while doing the glucose loading protocol. Very encouraging.
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Just to add about how brilliant Ray Peat was. He was recommending a low fat and low protein diet towards the end of his life.
What replaces the fat and protein? We'll primarily glucose. He had personally shifted to a high glucose diet (with fructose but a lot of it converts to glucose). His diet may have been 90% glucose/fructose and he thought this was therapeutic.
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@S-Holmes It makes sense to me. If your brain is well fed, it can stop signalling the body to release/make more fuel, which can't get into the brain anyhow (due to stress and injuries). So the glucose stops the cascade by nourishing the brain, bypassing the digestive process and going directly to the brain where it's needed.
I've seen a more scientific explanation and will try and find it.
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@Insomniac I wonder if a person could fix a lot of health issues living on Mexicola and brewers yeast (plus B12 since it has none) for a while. Lol. (Not going to try it!)
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@Insomniac fructose converts to glucose in an oxidative metabolism. This is what I think is the missing piece for everyone here and at the RPF.
Most people come to Peat from carnivore, keto, fasting, etc. Those diets guarantee gluconeogenesis because the brain needs glucose to function, (the body too, but certainly the brain). Once you’ve converted from a high carb to a low or no carb diet you have manufactured a “glucose limiting injury.” This is the term used my Stephens. So, Stephens suggests you cannot recover without glucose, (possibly) or Peat suggests you can’t recover without restoring oxidative phosphorylation. THE PROBLEM IS: almost no one has used cynomel/cynoplus for three months with consistency. Peat spoke regularly about how T4 only doesn’t work, but it typically prescribed. Peat spoke frequently about NDT not working because it wasn’t standardized and you didn’t know what you were getting. But let’s face it, it’s a big leap to ask someone from keto/carnivore/fasting/veganism to trust big pharma and take thyroid hormone. I don’t blame anyone, it took me 5 years to finally take cynoplus, (and it’s the only thyroid that has worked for me).
So, you need oxidative phosphorylation, (thyroid supplementation) or glucose. 2 options, same outcome.