Can Someone Explain What Cholesterol Values Should REALLY Be?
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@Insomniac it's hard to prove using scientism methods when there are many variables. just use logic. when these BP drugs cause acidic imbalance it can be logically inferred that the cells will accumulate calcium and internally calcify and this will eventually lead to fibrosis as the body adapts. the kidneys and liver will shrink as a result.
kempners methods work for the context it is meant for. my context as I explained earlier differs.
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@sweetwaterpickle You may wish to consider adding tissue integrity factors like bioflavonoids (hesperidin, rutin, etc). The balloon pressure is reduced but the integrity of the balloon can still be weak. There is a formed product called Cyruta Plus that a chiropractor can prescribe but in my experience up to 3g rutin is quite safe long term and will help reduce the chances of another stroke.
*Abstract
Intracerebral hemorrhagic (ICH) stroke is a major cause of death and disability globally, with no proper treatment available so far. Rutin, a dietary flavonoid, has shown protection against cerebral ischemic stroke due to its antioxidant and anti-inflammatory attributes. However, the efficacy of rutin against ICH stroke remained unexplored. Therefore, in the current study, we investigated the effect of rutin in an ICH stroke zebrafish larva model. The larvae were exposed to atorvastatin (1.25 μM) in system water for induction of experimental ICH. Rutin treatment reduced the hematoma size, ROS production and decreased apoptosis in the zebrafish larvae brains. Reduction in the malondialdehyde and protein carbonyl level in the rutin-treated larvae also indicated quenching of the free radicals. The treatment increased the expression of tight junction claud5a gene and decreased the mRNA level of matrix metalloproteases (mmp2 and mmp9). Furthermore, rutin treatment also attenuated the genomic expression of oxidative markers (nrf2, hmox1a, sod1, and gpx) and inflammatory genes (il6, tnfa, il10, and irf2a) related to ICH. The Gsk-3β activity was also downregulated, and a normal pool of β-catenin and Nrf2 was maintained in the larvae treated with rutin. The current study suggested that rutin protects ICH stroke via suppressing oxidative stress and inflammatory events in a zebrafish model.*
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@yerrag
Not all ARBs are equal. Would be interesting to read which one you tried. Olmesartan has actually been shown to be potentially very protective for all things vascular and for the kidneys, improving their filtration functions. If you like to you could read up on that ARB specifically. -
@CrumblingCookie I only used calcium channel blockers and Cox inhibitors so far, not having tried arbs. it may help the kidneys so I could be wrong about arbs effect on kidneys. since you and peat highly recommend arbs, and I'm ignorant about this class of drugs (even though peat sings praises of it endlessly during COVID), I'm still of the opinion that it merely lowers my BP without addressing or fixing the root causes of my high BP. It still isn't the ideal solution.
I've been told take the drug and then deal with finding the root cause, but even without taking the drug, i already find it very hard to eliminate the cause after identifying it, which was already hard to do in the first place. Also consider that taking the drug would just as well make me lose sight of finding the root cause and fixing it. Plus it adds a confounding element to troubleshooting.
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@yerrag The arbs probably won't bring you to normal. You can still use improvements in blood pressure diagnostically while being at a safer bp and protecting the kidneys.
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Have you personally used arbs and experienced any side effects? I think it's a given as all pharma drugs have side effects.
When I used a calcium channel blocker and a Cox inhibitor, I was also using a diuretic because a side effect of those drugs was edema. And because I was using a diuretic, I had to take a potassium supplement because I would get cramps. But what I was concerned most about is losing my acid base balance, as a chronically acidic state messes with heart rate and pumping efficiency, and the cell easily takes in more calcium from the ecf as internal calcification builds up towards fibrosis, which beings about degeneration in the liver and kidneys as they garden and shrink.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag I experienced no side effects with a ARB except maybe a occasional cough if I remember. I stopped needing it and didn't stop bc of side effects.
The side effect profile for candesartan was the same as placebo in the published trails.
You'll probably need more than one drug to get you systolic under 160
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Thanks for sharing. I hope I won't need to use the ARBs, but it's good to know.
I took the no drug approach towards my high BP as a personal experiment and challenge, just to see how seriously detrimental to my health allowing my bp to be naturally set by my body.
It has been 20+ years of steadily increasing BP , and I show no signs of being negatively impacted by it where it matters most.
I would have fixed it last year, but a cruel twist of fate had me take a cathartic detour last year. I hope to conquer my bp ailment within the year.
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@yerrag said in Can Someone Explain What Cholesterol Values Should REALLY Be?:
It has been 20+ years of steadily increasing BP , and I show no signs of being negatively impacted by it where it matters most.
What about an enlarged heart?
You take self experimentation very seriously. I hope you get your answers before it's too late.
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@Insomniac It's naturally going to be enlarged if that is to be expected from high blood pressure. If it were not, I'd be more worried.
The good thing about high BP is that it gets blood through where it's needed even though my blood volume is low. In an old home with plumbing with low cross sectional area that results in high friction losses, the resulting low flow can be boosted by installing a booster pump.
I'm glad I don't need a booster pump and the flow of blood is sufficient to keep my tissues and organs well supplied with vital nutrients as well as allow waste to be dumped out.
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does your husband take magnesium (and other minerals like potassium) and vitamin e?
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@yerrag i used telmisartan for a couple months once and i didnt notice any sides. it got high BP down really fast and made doing exercise way easier and more enjoyable. i was experimenting with testosterone and then lowered my dose of it and then didnt need telmisartan anymore
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220 to 240 consistently shows lowest all cause mortality.
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@sneedful said in Can Someone Explain What Cholesterol Values Should REALLY Be?:
@yerrag i used telmisartan for a couple months once and i didnt notice any sides. it got high BP down really fast and made doing exercise way easier and more enjoyable. i was experimenting with testosterone and then lowered my dose of it and then didnt need telmisartan anymore
thanks. that's good to know.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said:
220 to 240 consistently shows lowest all cause mortality.
Do you say so in accordance with this chart of cholesterol levels associated with mortality of different diseases?
@yerrag
I also find calcium-channel-blockers' effects somewhat "unstable" for lack of a better term. Coxibes are certainly toxic. I don't understand the shifts in acid-base balance and intracellular Ca2+ (reacting further to calciumoxalate, I guess?) which you write about. Is that Ca2+ influx simply due to lack of K+ influx in this context? The ARBs lower aldosterone a lot and by this can be sparing potassium iirc.
As for ARBs you probably would need to know that those molecules interact with the VDR, with valsartan, candesartan and especially telmisartan being antagonists to it (or inverse agonists). As for olmesartan's agonistic action on that receptor you can find quotes of Ray Peat saying that that's bosh. Then several years later, in 2021 or 2022, he said something along the line of "there probably is some merit to that idea". Losartan would be neutral on the VDR and give rise to the least impact on immune function. -
Read many studies and yes, around 220 - 240 is the lowest mortality in almost all studies. It begins to fall off around 280.
The lower than 220 is much higher mortality and when you get into 150s, then you are in real trouble.
If your cholesterol is 280 (as mine was) it is a hypo thyroid symptom more than anything else.
