getting super lean sickkunt
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@Zachs okay please show me, just make sure to include a piece of paper that includes the date the picture was taken okay?
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Im still loling over your post where you discovered i was using an extremely old phone.
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@Zachs Yeah and I find it even funnier that an old head like yourself, is reminiscing over his weight loss results 10 years ago over 10+ minute youtube videos instead of putting down the fork!
Maybe this "competition" will inspire you to do so. Assuming you don't instead post 10 year old transformation photos again, which is why we will both post proof of the current date the photo was taken - so neither of us do something like this.
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Why not? I find it fascinating. I have been researching in the health and nutrition sphere going on 25 years not for any other reason except i love it. And now what i found most fascinating, something i actually hypothesized and put into action, is back! So while you try to belittle me and question my integrity, im here because i want to help and learn.
I thought this place might be better than the fascist echo chamber that the ray peat forum became but people like you remind exactly why that place failed.
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@Zachs said in getting super lean sickkunt:
Jennifer, you were absolutely dealing with an eating disorder. Veganism, 80/10/10, fruitarianism. These are death cult diets, diseases of the mind.
Our experiences were not the same in any way because i came from an omnivore lifestyle, in my 40 days i ate lean proteins and zero fat animal products and when i ended i went back to an omnivore lifestyle.
You were on a true eating disorder lifestyle for i dont know how long but to get that advanced with under weight and bone loss, it must of been a few years anyway, then you restricted even further. Do you see the difference?
My zero fat diet protocol is for people who want to lose fat, its a set of short term dietary principles that absolutely will lean someone out faster than any other diet. Its not meant to be long term, and its flexible to allow for refeeding of animal products any time and most of all its not a restriction diet.
Not the same.
No, it didnāt take a few years for my weight and bone loss to get that advanced. As you can see by my pics, within two months I had wasted away. It turned out I had an underlying thyroid disorder that was exacerbated by insufficient protein intake.
Unaware of my condition, my doctor at the time had me on various versions of plant-based to increase my weight, but they were insufficient in protein because she assumed that someone my size didnāt require more, and I didnāt know any better, back then.
Tests during that time showed how rapidly the osteoporosis was progressing and having gained back most of my bone density within just a year of fracturing, it shows how quickly degeneration and regeneration can occur under the right conditions.
You say your zero fat diet protocol is not a restriction diet, but if that were true it wouldnāt call for any restrictions. I donāt doubt your experienceāI recall when you posted that pic on the old RPF and if Iām not mistaken, you also posted one while consuming a diet high in saturated fat and sugar for comparisonābut just because your protocol allows for animal protein and unlimited carbs, doesnāt mean itās not one of restriction.
Iām reminded of the RPF circa 2014/2015 when a diet of skim milk and sugar and āgetting rippedā was all the rage. I even followed it briefly, based on a protocol VoS gave me to fix my digestion. @samson, you could always check out the low toxin forum and search for the thread Getting Ripped With Dr. Peat or search for visionofstrengthās posts, specifically. You might find them useful.
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@alfredoolivas @Zachs @eduardo-crispino
I really don't think this is that complicated.
OP wants to get "super lean" for the summer. Whenever you lose bodyfat, the main concern is losing muscle mass.
There is no evidence (I posted 4 studies to the contrary which have still to be responded to) that eating a sugar only diet will preserve muscle mass across any time frame that will cause meaningful fat loss. The sugar diet is not DNP. You will not lose 10 pounds of fat in 1 week, which is the OP's goal. It would probably take at least 4-6 weeks.
I tried to give a blueprint in my first reply to this thread that makes sense given everything that I know from common sense, experience, and scientific evidence. That includes not crashing protein too low.
The first picture I posted (actually the only picture) is from before I started Peating. I was doing high intensity stair master 4-5x/week (sometimes 3x) for a couple months, and of course lifting weights and doing calisthenics. High protein diet from animal sources, adequate carbs, no added fats. I used it to show that an idiot (I was mostly ignorant of bioenergetics back then) can get a nice physique by sticking to the basics - plenty of cardio, resistance training, high protein (0.7-0.8 g/lb of lean mass), even if you don't balance calcium to phosphorus, minimize PUFA, optimize thyroid, etc.
I even gave some tips for how to have "enhanced" fat loss - with clen, t2, t3, ECA stack. Each of those is known to work, and there are studies proving each of them works and does not significantly reduce muscle when doing resistance training.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23686786/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12032741/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31887249/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26707345/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303720717300928?via%3Dihub
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You refuse to acknowledge that it was not the lack of protein that made you sick, it was the lack of animal nutrition. If it was just protein, why didnt you stay vegan and just add more protein?
reading comprehension is not great in this thread because my advice keeps getting misconstrued. I never advocated for low or no anything long term. I myself ate 70-90g protein a day which is more than adequate for someone my size, eating an abundance of carbs and not weight training. The only thing i restricted was dietary fat, but i had massive amounts of body fat so i was perfectly fine for that time period. Even the sugar diet/fast whatever calls for periods of normal eating whenever you like.
This is a very rational, safe and simple way of losing bodyfat fast without depriving yourself of anything.
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I dont know why we are arguing then. You posted your advice showing you can get results with a drug + diet + cardio stack.
I posted my advice showing you can get results from a high carb + zero fat + stress free stack.
You have no right to question my authenticity on how fast i lost fat, why would i lie? I was deliberately experimenting on myself to see the outcome and i was a surprised as anyone by the results. And the picture alone is enough proof to show my muscles didnt waste away.
You assertion that 10lbs of fat may take 4-6 weeks is ridiculous, i literally posted proof on myself that that is false. There are tons of other people right now on the internet doing a similar diet and dropping fat rapidly.
I have nothing to say about your studies because im not even advocating for a protein restricted diet, 70-90g of protein day is not restricting when there is an abundance of carbs.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10385755/#:~:text=4.,nitrogen balance'%20%5B27%5D.
Heres a study that shows nitrogen balanced is achieved by .8g/kg in male vegans. It does not take much protein in the average person. Bodybuilding is different and im not advocating for that either.
I feel that my advice is getting misconstrued so here it is laid out simply, this is what I recommend to lose fat fast while maintaining muscle mass and elevating metabolism.
Ad libitum carbohydrates from any source, minimum 500g a day.
Small amounts of very lean protein sources and fat free dairy, does not need to be daily but at least 3x a week.
ZERO dietary fat except for whatās naturally occuring in these foods. (Cronometer may say around 10g/day) for up to one month, refeed days of fat if necessary (up to one month, not necessary as long as you have fat to lose).
Supplements suggested but not required, magnesium, b complex, fat soluble D+k2mk4+E topically or orally.
Thats it. This diet will clear pufa stores in the body, raise metabolism, clear metabolic dysfunction, reduce body fat significantly and give youthful energy.
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@Zachs said in getting super lean sickkunt:
You refuse to acknowledge that it was not the lack of protein that made you sick, it was the lack of animal nutrition. If it was just protein, why didnt you stay vegan and just add more protein?
reading comprehension is not great in this thread because my advice keeps getting misconstrued. I never advocated for low or no anything long term. I myself ate 70-90g protein a day which is more than adequate for someone my size, eating an abundance of carbs and not weight training. The only thing i restricted was dietary fat, but i had massive amounts of body fat so i was perfectly fine for that time period. Even the sugar diet/fast whatever calls for periods of normal eating whenever you like.
This is a very rational, safe and simple way of losing bodyfat fast without depriving yourself of anything.
Because all but fruit had me doubled over in pain, especially protein-rich plants. In prior years, when my diet was 100% WFPB and it averaged upwards of 90 g of protein I was healthy, and itās when my diet still contained animal protein that I first fell ill so while I respect that you disagree, Iām certain the cause was my underlying thyroid disorder triggered by the stress of climbing in extreme conditions, and insufficient protein exacerbating my catabolic state. Thyroid disease runs in my family and my mum died due to complications of it soā¦
I never claimed that you advocated for low or no anything long-term, just challenged the idea that your protocol isnāt a restriction diet when it calls for restricting. It allows for refeeding, but a person wouldnāt need to refeed if they werenāt restricting to begin with. Regardless, like I said, I donāt doubt your experience so it seems to me that the diet works well for you. Previously, you said that you consumed 60ā70 g of protein, but it was actually 70ā90 g? If so, that makes more sense to me. I wondered how you were only getting 10ā20 g more protein than me when your diet contained animal protein and I averaged 1,000 calories less than you.
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Ok that makes a bit more sense. Yes extreme endurance is always detrimental to health and im sure the amount of plants you ate did not help your thyroid.
While i think veganism is a an anti human agenda, i also think that for it to be optimal (as optimal as a deficient diet can be) there needs to be an abundance of easily digestible carbohydrates. I think most vegans do themselves an even bigger disservice by eating way too much fibrous foods and hard to digest foods.
My days fluctuated in protein, certainly there were plenty of days in the lower range maybe even dipping into 50g protein if most of the day was rice and fruit, but i definitely had higher days eating chicken breast, tenderloin, egg whites and fat free dairy, mainly yogurt and drinking milk.
While i understand that saying the diet in not a restriction diet and at the same time saying restricting dietary fat is crucial sounds like an oxymoron, it really isnt. people that are fat need to concern themselves far less about protein, fats and even nutrients because they are wearing an excess of everything on their body. So in that sense, while their dietary fat is being restricted, they are liberating their fat stores freely and nutrition is still abundant. As long as carbohydrate consumption is high, it cant be a restriction diet as they are getting everything they need. Hopefully that makes sense, its arguing semantics and wordplay really.
The real key here is that it is different to any other fat loss diet in that way. There has never been a fat loss diet promoted that doesnt restrict calories. Carnivore/keto usually talk about not needing to restrict calories but i have not seen many actually able to get lean on those diets withour further restricting and usually they stall with a good amount of fat to go. Those diets also physically change peoples microbiomes and metabolisms and dont allow for refeeds with carbs without disastrous effect.
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thanks for the passionate responses, everyone! You're all very beautiful girls, so no need to get your panties in a bunch... firstly this whole "sugar diet" shit is totally retarded and I'm not doing that. you haven't found a new paradigm jfc...
as for protein requirements, its probably true you don't need much to maintain. ray said like 100g for a 5k cal diet, which seems adequate.
lets remember to keep things reasonable. Its pretty silly and neuroic, and clearly not healthy to sugar fast. would peat ever recommend such a thing? the answer is no. not that he's the end all be all but cmon guys
BTW I maintain a pretty lean fizeek already, my problem was never maintaining a healthy body fat, it was getting shredded quick with minimal effort while eating reasonably. posting so i can be included lolz
I got here eating a standard 'peaty' HFLC 4000 cal diet that I enjoy very much, while still having plenty of pastries and pizza and pork and other non kosher stuff socially (along with plenty of liquor and a little beer) also doing literally 0 cardio other than walking to places I wanted to be (I live in NYC so its pretty easy to walk everywhere)
FGF21 already has some questionable bone density issues so 'sugar fasting' until dinner is as far as ill go, I've tried going pure sugar (juices, honey, etc) for a day and it sucked really bad, even with a really solid amount of nutrients around that fast. there are people who maintain sub 10% bf without doing all that shit
rn the plan is just normal cal restriction while keeping fats and carbs mostly separate and seeing how far that can get me, thinking ill include a 10k step requirement, that seems reasonable. when that stalls, maybe il do a cycle of ECA or sugar fast or whatever other stupid bullshit u guys recommend me to do hahaha, or maybe just get a girl and forget about this whole lean mean machine business to begin with...
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Ray Peat was the one who postulated that a zero fat diet would clear tissues of pufa and correct metabolic derangement. He went on to show that in metabolic ward scenario the body will create its own fatty acids to substitute.
Haidut was the one that brought forth evidence that pufa clearance could be achieved in 30 days with strict fat adherence.
Walter Kempner brought this diet to the mainstream, curing diabetes, metabolic derangement, obesity, kidney failure, hypertension and more. Others before him were curing diabetes and obesity with pure sugar.
Its amazing that such close minded people can find their way to Ray Peats work in the first place.
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@Zachs thanks for the babies first ray peat ideas summary. youre talking about chimps being pufa depleted in a month on a zero fat diet? yeah man I'm not a lab animal I'm an human being who likes to enjoy my life.
Where does Ray recommend a zero-fat diet? Where does Ray even suggest it might be responsible in a health context to do something like that for a short period of time? nowhere. not even georgi, who recommends more drastic things at times, ever recommended something like that.
The idea was always to simply limit fat intake to reduce PUFA accumulation with age. not cut out entire macros.
The way you're responding and interacting with this thread is NOT playful or full of joie de vivre... get real bro! Life is play! Eating 4000 calories of sugar for most of your life sounds awful. When I eat reasonably, i have no urge to binge like how you talk about...
he always talked about a gentle, traditional, reasonable diet for longevity and health, not these bombastic, trendy health spectacles.
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Looks like u got the basics mostly figured out. But clen or ECA is definitely not BS in the sense that it works. If you want I can send you the legendary āBodyopusā of Dan Douchaine. Itās actually amazing how many parallels there are in it to RP type ideas such as that AAS mostly work through GR antagonism. Plenty of anti peat stuff too but ā¦
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@jamezb46 ya bro pm me! mostly was just being tongue in cheek about "bullshit", that being anything outside of what would be considered responsible for my health. would love some good bioenergetic resources on AAS or getting shredded if you have, bc most gym bro characters (even and especially the educated ones) follow traditional medical dogma, so it's hard to really tell what is healthy or what risks are associated with what compounds in reality thru a metabolic lens.
