White tongue
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@onliest I can scrape it off but it will come back the next day typically. I don't think its leukoplakia as that would be white coating on gums and inside of cheeks which you can't scrape off, which I don't have. Also I'm not a smoker. I think it has more to do with gut bacteria.
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@PrinceMyshkin the likely culprit is then candida. I'd try oil pulling with antifungal oils like coconut, oregano.
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It’s probably tongue herpes. I have it too.
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I think it’s got to do with saliva production and composition. I never scrape my tongue and it’s always clean & pink even with drinking 2l milk/day but if I have high dose cyproheptadine, which is known to lower saliva production as well as modify its composition, I get dry mouth and coating. I think the composition of the saliva is also modulated by stress hormones such as cortisol and estrogen and co-factors like cholesterol and vitamin A and of course thyroid.
Good things are immeasurably costly
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@skylark interesting. I used to have dry mouth sometimes at night but less so since drinking lots of milk and less plain water, especially before bed. Also got better when I switched to toothpaste without fluoride. I supplement thyroid and get quite a bit of vitamin A but perhaps it’s not enough for my needs. I feel like cortisol and estrogen are pretty low but suppose they could still be contributing to the problem.
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The only thing I have found that works is chewing mastic gum. Whenever I do it for more than a few days my tongue goes clear, but I never keep it up long enough to get permanent effects. I reckon even two weeks of daily chewing would be enough to bring about longer lasting change.
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Probably candida. There are oral liquid forms of antifungals that you can use, they are less systemic. If they don’t work, use a powerful systemic antifungal medicine.
Alternatively, you may try swishing your mouth with high dose propolis tincture added in some water. Hold it in your mouth for at least 15 minutes before spitting.
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@PrinceMyshkin how’s your sleep? Do you wake in the night? Other than meeting nutritional requirements, saliva production, as well as all secretions in the body, is mediated by the tone of the nervous system. Activation of the sympathetic nervous system will shut off bodily secretions, starting in the mouth. Do you have any signs of high adrenaline, rapid hr, cold extremities?
Good things are immeasurably costly
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@skylark said in White tongue:
I think it’s got to do with saliva production and composition. I never scrape my tongue and it’s always clean & pink even with drinking 2l milk/day but if I have high dose cyproheptadine, which is known to lower saliva production as well as modify its composition, I get dry mouth and coating. I think the composition of the saliva is also modulated by stress hormones such as cortisol and estrogen and co-factors like cholesterol and vitamin A and of course thyroid.
This is it. Nose breathing is probably the best thing for saliva production, composition and stress hormone reduction.
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@PrinceMyshkin daily scraping, flossing the molars (waterpik even better), more carrot salad, and mastic gum keeps mine at bay
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@GuantanamO-Shea @CO3 any mastic gum recommendations? I tried Greco Gum once but it seems like a huge rip off.
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@sunandblood I’m good about breathing through my nose throughout the day but I do notice sometimes I’ll slip into mouth breathing at night. I don’t want to do the mouth taping thing - any advice for consistent nose breathing while sleeping?
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@skylark my sleep is good, sleep well through the night and only ever wake up once or twice but always fall right back to sleep. I’ve been really warm this winter since taking thyroid and my temps are pretty much always above 98. I don’t have any symptoms of high adrenaline.
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@PrinceMyshkin do you have sinus or any kind of nasal congestions? i had the same problems until i nuked my sinus with cyproheptadine.
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@wamantah no sinus issues, I’m generally breathing pretty clear
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@PrinceMyshkin Do you drink alcohol or eat starch?
I had a white tongue coating for years and treated it herbally according to traditional Chinese medicine. I never got long-term results until I started peating and quit alcohol. In the past it was always worse after a night a drinking. I find if I eat a lot of starch, during the holidays or something, it comes back.
"People need to start understanding that the system is systematically murdering them, and understanding that the situation is desperate, they need to see that solidarity with life, against capital, is their hope." RP
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Vitamin K2 is important for the oral microbiota, probably due to its effect on saliva pH. This is why it's also important for the dental health.
"It is not presently known how saliva is connected to K2, but it has been associated with increased inorganic phosphate, the buffering agent, which leads to decreasing counts of lactobacillus acidophilus⁵. This would be indicative of an increasing pH or less acid saliva since lactobacillus thrive at lower pH levels"
Southward K. A hypothetical role for vitamin K2 in the endocrine and exocrine aspects of dental caries. Med Hypotheses. 2015;84(3):276-280. doi:10.1016/j.mehy.2015.01.011
Good things are immeasurably costly
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You already mentioned this, but it's interesting how drinking excess water dries the mouth.
Water is a Newtonian fluid because the viscosity doesn’t change with increasing shear. In contrast, saliva, despite being composed of 99% water, is described as a non-Newtonian fluid because the viscosity decreases with increasing shear. In practice, this allows saliva to be easily spread on the oral surfaces as well as to be retained and not easily washed off oral surfaces. This is an important function for saliva because the oral mucosal surfaces are the main site for the interaction with the microorganisms in the mouth (Dewhirst et al. 2010). The highest shear rates in the mouth occur during eating and swallowing. These high shear rates aid in maintaining a constant flow of saliva from where it enters the mouth (ductal openings) to the back of the throat (for swallowing). The constant movement of saliva is important for the removal of bacteria, the pH buffering of saliva, and oral health generally.
Carpenter GH. The secretion, components, and properties of saliva. Annu Rev Food Sci Technol. 2013;4:267-276. doi:10.1146/annurev-food-030212-182700
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@PrinceMyshkin expand if you’re narrow
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@buckminster I do eat white rice and we’ll cooked potatoes on a weekly basis. This could definitely be a contributing factor but I have a hard time eliminating starch completely, potatoes digest very well and make me feel good.
