Unpleasant experience on thyroid
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Hello everyone,
I have started taking Tyromax (Idealabs NDT) a couple days ago. I currently take one drop (this purportedly equates to 1/7 grain) a day around 6 PM. I have already seen some results: I sleep a little better, I don't have to urinate every hour and when I do it no longer foams, I seem to have a bit more energy, my upper airways are less congested.
However, it has also brought an uncomfortable side effect. Starting at 1-2 PM, I get this stressful, adrenaline (I think) reaction. My extremities become very cold, a feeling of terror and impending doom overtakes me, my body becomes "shaky" and twitchy, and I can't focus or consistently engage in any activity. This starts to let off after another dose of thyroid and I'm okay by about 7 PM.
Should I stop taking it? Is it the increased adrenaline sensitivity that Danny Roddy has talked about and will it pass? Does it mean NDT's T4:T3 ratio is wrong for me?
Or maybe I have some deficiency? I drink 2-4 litres of milk a day, I eat liver weekly and eggs couple times a week, I also supplement magnesium. Should I get a Vitamin D blood test (I haven't supplemented it this winter and I spend most of the time inside)? Currently I'm eating a low fat, high sugar diet, maybe I need more starch and/or saturated fat to support a higher metabolic rate?
My wife thinks I'm simply "running out" of thyroid hormones before a next dose, but it doesn't seem right: T3 has a half-life much shorter than 19 hours, T4's is far longer.
Thanks for any ideas and suggestions, I really appreciate it. I would hate to see the first thing that seems to actually do something to be proven harmful to my health.
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I've experienced the same thing while taking NDT, goes away after some time. I can't find it rn but I've heard an interview with ray about it and he said, if I remember correctly, that your body has been running on stress hormones for so long, that it has to switch to it's proper function. The switch from running on cortisol for too long to running on thyroid can take a while and your body needs to adjust. After a few weeks the symptoms went away. I use 60mg ndt every day at 8 AM, 4 PM, 11:30PM. The point is that it goes away, it's just your body switching gears.
Edit: I would add that drinking a lot of coffee with sugar and cream helped me a lot, but don't go too nuts with the cream obviously. + make sure you take the ndt at least 30 mins away from consuming coffee, it inhibits the absorption of the hormones.
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@DonkeyDude It's hard to know the t4/t3 ratio of NDT or to dial up or down one or the other. Natural thyroid is also very inconsistent in terms of the absolute dose of t4/t3 per gram weight. You could have finer-grained control if you use cynomel/cynoplus.
Your symptoms don't seem like the nervousness/cortisol reaction to me, they just seem like an underdosing of thyroid. You could take it with meals multiple times a day, or you could dial up the T4.
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@Ruben said in Unpleasant experience on thyroid:
After a few weeks the symptoms went away.
Thank you for your reply. I hope it will be the same for me. I do drink a lot of coffee, but it's in the morning, so it should not interfere with thyroid absorption.
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@DonkeyDude Hope so as well. You could spread out your thyroid intake more, so that your t3 is higher all day long. Or you could up your dosage a tiny bit to see if things work better that way.
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@brad said in Unpleasant experience on thyroid:
You could have finer-grained control if you use cynomel/cynoplus.
I live in a fairly restrictive country where synthetic thyroid is definitely illegal, but NDT is sort of gray area (it's virtually unknown and thus not on any list of restricted pharmaceuticals), lessening the chance of the shipment being confiscated. Idealabs also seems to be pretty good in shipping to such places. Lastly, I don't have the executive function needed for dividing pills into minute doses, taking multiple doses per day etc. This is why I chose Tyromax for my first attempt at thyroid supplementation.
@brad said in Unpleasant experience on thyroid:
Your symptoms don't seem like the nervousness/cortisol reaction to me, they just seem like an underdosing of thyroid.
Is it possible for underdosing, as opposed to taking no thyroid at all, to worsen the symptoms?
Thank you for replying, Brad.
Today I had my first coffee two hours earlier and the symptoms have started two hours earlier too. Is it possible that thyroid has made me more sensitive to caffeine? Or maybe it's coincindental (I used to have this kind of endotoxin reaction to coffee in the past)?
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@Ruben said in Unpleasant experience on thyroid:
Or you could up your dosage a tiny bit to see if things work better that way.
I was under the impression I should take a given dose of T4 for at least two weeks and not play with the dose every day. I've intended to up the dosage after two weeks on one drop.
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@DonkeyDude yes you should not 'play' with it too much. But if it doesn't change after a month or so, it could be just that you're dosing too low.
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When you first start increasing my the level of t3 in the blood, your cells & tissues will become sensitive to any excess adrenaline that is in your system. It’s common for hypothyroidism to be compensated by an excess of stress hormones that your tissues have become desensitised to. Starting thyroid often leads to a sudden increase in requirement for essential nutrients such as magnesium, glucose, ect. Of course, caloric intake should be sufficient, it’s important to keep on top of this as sympathetic nervous tone will lower your appetite and can create a viscous circle.
Don’t disregard the idea that you may not need to supplement thyroid.
Good things are immeasurably costly
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@Ruben said in Unpleasant experience on thyroid:
@DonkeyDude yes you should not 'play' with it too much. But if it doesn't change after a month or so, it could be just that you're dosing too low.
I definitely plan to increase the dose, just going very slowly.
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@skylark said in Unpleasant experience on thyroid:
Don’t disregard the idea that you may not need to supplement thyroid.
I hear you. But I believe I might actually need it. I have suffered from debilitating fatigue from years. My body temperature is low and I feel cold all the time. I'm stressed out all the time for no reason and I have trouble coping with any actual stress. I have many other symptoms fitting those described in Broda Barnes' seminal book on thyroid.
Doctors have not found anything they could help me with (beyond offering SSRIs for depression).
Eating Peaty (low PUFA, high sugar etc.) for 1-3 years definitely did improve my metabolism, but not nearly enough. I've tried progesterone, pregnenolone, various vitamin and mineral supplements including megadoses, cypro, Benadryl, carrot salad and other purported natural gut cleansers, aspirin, and probably many other Peaty and non-Peaty interventions. None had a notable effect. I do think I have a good reason to believe I need thyroid.
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Update: as predicted, the problem has passed. On Sunday I will increase the dose to two drops and continue to report.
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Another update: the problem I've started the thread with has not returned. I have noticed my gyno has shrank (although it's still somewhat visible) and my hairline has somewhat filled in (but I had pretty good hair before Peating, so I wouldn't get your hopes up too much if you're bald). Interestingly, I have also built some muscle despite barely lifting (maybe five light sessions across the whole month).
However, the fourth drop (that brings me a bit above half grain) seems to have some threshold effects despite the fact I started it just this Monday.
I have recently started a stressful job that requires me to wake up way earlier than I prefer. Before, and this has been generally the case since I've turned 16, I could never get a full night of sleep if I needed to get up before 9 AM - I would either fail to fall asleep at all, or would wake up every hour in panic, thinking I've overslept. I also generally found it impossible to fall asleep after being startled at night in any manner. Last two nights I have been woken up by alarm clock and I could easily continue sleeping if I wanted to. I know it doesn't sound like much, but it's a major breakthrough for me.
Also, I feel like some kind of capacity to feel emotions is slowly coming back. For years I haven't experienced much but a kind of general discomfort and annoyance. Only my wife has made me happy, and sometimes I have been too much "locked in" even for her. Past two days I had a moments when I've genuinely laughed at something I've just thought. I feel real hope first time in years.
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I may be wrong here, but you're probably taking too small of a dose. You're giving your body exogenous thyroid hormones, natural production downregulates, but you're not giving it nearly enough to take over.
Also, try to stay on a dose for at least 2 weeks, before switching, or increasing. -
@GreekDemiGod Makes sense. I agree the dose is probably too low, but I wanted to start as low as possible to avoid side effects (I've read some horror stories on RPF, including people who no longer could tolerate any amount of thyroid whatsoever). This theory also seems to be supported by the fact my goiter has lessened - my thyroid used to be somewhat swollen and painful to touch, now it's hard and doesn't hurt anymore.
I am increasing the dose every two weeks - I started with one drop and currently, in week 7, I'm at four.
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Yet another update (I hope this log might be useful for someone looking for info in the future). My wife says I seem to have aged backwards five years since I have started taking thyroid. Apparently my face has became longer, thinner and more masculine. It has also became somewhat easier for me to drive a car - before Peating it was incredibly stressful/overwhelming. This is all despite sleep deprivation and heavy psychological stress I'm currently under.
My need for magnesium has skyrocketed: mag glycinate tastes like powdered sugar and I feel worse if I neglect to take it. I also had several unpleasant sort-of-panic attacks, but it's probably due to aforementioned stress - thyroid does increase adrenaline sensitivity after all, and these don't happen without an external stimulus, so I doubt thyroid is the culprit. I will try eating more sugar during the day and taking magnesium in the morning too to see if I can make them go away competely.
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@DonkeyDude interesting details , thanks , i imagine metabolism fix its like a invisible layer surrounding for years starts to dissipate and let more life in & you into life , in balance
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I have found when taking tyronene, that somrtimesi become almost narcoleptic, barely able to keep my eyes open. I think this is due to not consuming sufficient fuel, because if I made a point of eating or drinking significant glucose, I tend not to have this issue.
It seems like it might also possibly be that it relaxes me so much after years of high cortisol and adrenaline that I simply feel the fatigue all of a sudden. Haidut's kuinone seems to have a similar effect, but only sometimes.
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My wife has made an interesting observation: I seem to feel best on the first week of an increased dose and then I return to my baseline over the second week. By the weekend of week 2 I'm back to usual delusional paranoia and conversations with people who aren't actually there. Every increased dose brings an improvement, but it's still a wavy, cyclical process rather than a straightforward linear increase in health.
My theory is that at first, increased thyroid dose raises my metabolism and I feel better, but then my (likely extremely elevated) stress hormones drop, leaving me at baseline again. This would imply that I need to go through this cycle several times until stress hormones finally drop to normal levels, allowing a linear improvement with an increased thyroid dose.
