Why are you all so religious
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@Truth The abuse crisis has drastically gone out of our Catholic institutions in America to almost non existent compared to what it used to be, meanwhile every other institution still has the problem at horrible rates. A few decades after the hierarchy and church members really understood what was going on it was very cracked down on.
I understand that it makes it harder to see that the instution is divinely instituted, but it is not contrary to reason that God would temporarily allow certain individuals to exercise their wills in an evil way against him and against others in his church.
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@Hando-Jin Considering that you live in a world of decay where noone can maintain optimal energy function and they eventually die and suffocate to death even though we all desire to have happiness to the fullest should be a sign that the way the world is now is not how it used to/is supposed to be. We are designed and drawn to immortal happiness, immortal regeneration.
I'm not saying that this is a sole reason to believe in the Christian worldview but the fact that everything is striving towards infinite happiness but is not able to achieve it is something to ponder.
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@dan-saintdominic said in Why are you all so religious:
The abuse crisis has drastically gone out of our Catholic institutions in America to almost non existent compared to what it used to be, meanwhile every other institution still has the problem at horrible rates. A few decades after the hierarchy and church members really understood what was going on it was very cracked down on.
What a joke. They busted a gay sex party IN THE VATICAN LAST YEAR. It's a vile, corrupt institution and the only reason there has been any decrease in these activities is because light has been shed on it so many countless times. You have ZERO understanding of this phenomenon if you say they found out and then put a stop to it. They were shuffling around priests for years. There were scandals year after year, and again and again it implicated higher and higher positioned people that would just move around the offenders.
I remember reading about a Belgian communist, who started his political agitation writing about pederasty in the Church and was kicked out of his university. GET THIS: THIS HAPPENED IN 1965. Between this and the 2001 Boston scandal almost FORTY YEARS ELAPSED. IN THIS SCANDAL 7% OF THE CLERGY WAS FOUND TO HAVE BEEN OFFENDERS!
I wish I could simply call you ignorant, but in reality saying something like this actually makes you a very vile person.
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@dan-saintdominic I love the cognitive dissonance too. You get an even worse, albeit more consistent, version of it with many ''traditional'' Catholics, or the protestants that say they're Catholics but don't believe there has been a pope after Vatican II;
the idea that the Church has become so liberalized and that's why it's evil now. That now when they're only raping kids they're kind of bad, but during the Spanish inquisition when they could murder adults, or during WWII when they en masse collaborated with the Nazis they were really a force for good.
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@CO3 I already admitted that its harder to see the Catholic faith and church as divinely instituted due to the bad actors. It's harder for me to see it too but I realize that its not contrary to reason that God would temporarily allow certain evil individuals to exist in his church.
Your comment on the "party" was something that happened in Poland, unless youre referring to something else that I never heard of. And my point wasn't that these evil people aren't still there, its that its dramatically less and practically lower than any other instution in America at this point in time. You saying "but yea there were these people who did this" is tonedeaf to me talking about the overall decrease and overall lower than the most common instituions in America now after it has been cracked down on.
I also dont subscribe to the anti vatican 2 and anti liberal stuff. So I dont know why youre mentioning that to me. The church has a lot less crime now than it did before Vatican 2.
Also you dont know what youre talking about WW2. The voting maps show that all the areas that were Catholic were the ones who didnt vote for Hitler. Its like a direct cooreltaion. The Pope wrote encylicals in the early days of hitler's regime admonishing racial identity politics. Pope Pius XII was credited with saving thousands of Jews.
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@dan-saintdominic said in Why are you all so religious:
Your comment on the "party" was something that happened in Poland, unless youre referring to something else that I never heard of.
HAH there's so many that you can't even keep track! Vile!
It happened LAST YEAR in the VATICAN in an apartment of one of the KEY ADVISORS TO THE HOLY PONTIFF.
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@dan-saintdominic said in Why are you all so religious:
its that its dramatically less and practically lower than any other instution in America at this point in time. You saying "but yea there were these people who did this" is tonedeaf to me talking about the overall decrease and overall lower than the most common instituions in America now after it has been cracked down on.
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@CO3 No Im talking about overall. It was a period of scandal that has dramatically decreased over 95%.
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@dan-saintdominic Like hypothetically this is true and the research is sufficient and represents reality accurately (like hell it does), then what's your point?
'uh what about the other guys'
Revolting!
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@dan-saintdominic said in Why are you all so religious:
Also you dont know what youre talking about WW2. The voting maps show that all the areas that were Catholic were the ones who didnt vote for Hitler. Its like a direct cooreltaion. The Pope wrote encylicals in the early days of hitler's regime admonishing racial identity politics. Pope Pius XII was credited with saving thousands of Jews.
Yeah the Yank is really gonna tell me about the Word War II collaboration 'voting maps'. Man you Americans sure are stupid as fuck
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I suspect any benefits come from the community part of religion rather than the beliefs, not to be diminished I guess, particularly in the elderly.
As far as any real transformation goes, it's obviously very limited in what it can provide. Like psychology, Religion's opposition to explanations of suffering that can't ever include biology make it completely toxic imo.
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@JamesGatz said in Why are you all so religious:
Why did Ancient civilizations around the world make human sacrifices regularly to entities that seem to be "mythical"? Were they all just a bunch of brain-dead cavemen or do they know something that you don't? Think about it. Who could've taught them to engage in such practices?
Normies believe in all sorts of dumb shit. I don't know why you'd assume the crazy things they were doing in ancient time could be rational considering how they behave in our modern age.
The Powers that Be are extremely religious themselves
I think they are more pragmatic than religious. They love being rich and powerful above all else which is why they're mostly Malthusian.
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Had mystical experiences that led me to believe in God. Used to be agnostic, which seems to be the most intellectually honest approach if one did not experience God directly.
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@CO3 I didnt use the what about the other guys argument. If I implied that than I'm sorry. My point was that the abusers have by and large been exterminated, although there is still some of them in there. This was to show that it's not something that's intrinsic to Catholicism, and that it was a scandal over a certain time period in our churches.
Its horrible how you present data and make conclusions presumably off the same sources, then when I do it you make the data out to be dubious.
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@CO3 I dont get why that data would be a lie. You're saying our church supported the nazis, and prusmably youre using some sort of mainstream data. Yet when Im using data youre saying its dubious. Anyone can look at the map at who voted for Hitler and its almost identical with the Protestant areas, and the Catholic areas didnt vote for him. And, like I said, the Pope publicly called him out in this encylical from 1937:
"8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community - however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things - whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds."
"11. None but superficial minds could stumble into concepts of a national God, of a national religion; or attempt to lock within the frontiers of a single people, within the narrow limits of a single race, God, the Creator of the universe, King and Legislator of all nations before whose immensity they are "as a drop of a bucket" (Isaiah xI, 15)."
"17. The peak of the revelation as reached in the Gospel of Christ is final and permanent. It knows no retouches by human hand; it admits no substitutes or arbitrary alternatives such as certain leaders pretend to draw from the so-called myth of race and blood."
"The Church founded by the Redeemer is one, the same for all races and all nations. Beneath her dome, as beneath the vault of heaven, there is but one country for all nations and tongues; there is room for the development of every quality, advantage, task and vocation which God the Creator and Savior has allotted to individuals as well as to ethnical communities. "
And as a response:
"The release of Mit brennender Sorge precipitated an intensification of the Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church in Germany.[63] Hitler was infuriated.[2] Twelve printing presses were seized, and hundreds of people sent either to prison or the concentration camps.[2] In his diary, Goebbels wrote that there were heightened verbal attacks on the clergy from Hitler, and wrote that Hitler had approved the start of trumped up "immorality trials" against clergy and anti-Church propaganda campaign. Goebbels' orchestrated attack included a staged "morality trial" of 37 Franciscans.[64] On the "Church Question", wrote Goebbels, "after the war it has to be generally solved … There is, namely, an insoluble opposition between the Christian and a heroic-German world view".[64]"
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@Hando-Jin said in Why are you all so religious:
I suspect any benefits come from the community part of religion rather than the beliefs, not to be diminished I guess, particularly in the elderly.
Yep.
As far as any real transformation goes, it's obviously very limited in what it can provide. Like psychology, Religion's opposition to explanations of suffering that can't ever include biology make it completely toxic IMO.
Yeah, most (big) religions are about coping (as a normie/peasant) not about thriving as a leader/expert of a community... Moreover, religions are mostly as you said stuck in the Middle/Dark Ages...
BTW it's sad that such religious zealots, nazis, and incels here are creating noise (low vibrations) on this forum and scaring away some valuable people...
Panta rhei... | Liberté 🏴 | It depends... ;-)
A little Learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
~Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism -
@yerrag You describe the most high God.
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@Kvirion said in Why are you all so religious:
@Hando-Jin said in Why are you all so religious:
I suspect any benefits come from the community part of religion rather than the beliefs, not to be diminished I guess, particularly in the elderly.
Yep.
As far as any real transformation goes, it's obviously very limited in what it can provide. Like psychology, Religion's opposition to explanations of suffering that can't ever include biology make it completely toxic IMO.
Yeah, most (big) religions are about coping (as a normie/peasant) not about thriving as a leader/expert of a community... Moreover, religions are mostly as you said stuck in the Middle/Dark Ages...
BTW it's sad that such religious zealots, nazis, and incels here are creating noise (low vibrations) on this forum and scaring away some valuable people...
Hi Regina,
If neanderthals and cro-magnons understood God this way, what does this say about the current human species? Is this really a progression or is it a regression? In fairness, not all homo sapiens think in the vein of being programmed to believe in what is called faith that substitutes for reason and wisdom.
If a tree in an orchard is barren and does not bear fruit, should one keep watering the tree while other fruit trees can take its place?
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter
