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Revisiting Oral Testosterone

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  • R
    RFC32 @wester130
    last edited by Jul 22, 2024, 3:06 PM

    @wester130 I have taken enclomiphene before and faced the eye damage and this is definitely different.

    It is dry eyes, I have huge issues focusing my eyesight, my eczema also suddenly breaks out. If I take an antihistamine it keeps the eczema at bay but dries out my eyes further.

    Enclomiphene gave me oily skin, but no energy or drive and I started seeing floaters in my eyes. The effects of sublingual testosterone were much more of what I’m looking for despite the side effects.

    Enclomiphene effects also came on after a couple of weeks, even with the first dose of sublingual test in hbcpd I feel the allergies hit. It’s that dang hbcpd.

    W 1 Reply Last reply Jul 22, 2024, 7:26 PM Reply Quote 0
    • W
      wester130 @RFC32
      last edited by Jul 22, 2024, 7:26 PM

      @RFC32 what were the ingredients in the sublingual testosterone??

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • J
        jamezb46 @RFC32
        last edited by Jul 23, 2024, 5:11 AM

        @RFC32 for the love of God why would you essentially tease the success you had with sublingual T and not disclose the formulation

        In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

        R 1 Reply Last reply Jul 23, 2024, 12:08 PM Reply Quote 0
        • R
          RFC32 @jamezb46
          last edited by Jul 23, 2024, 12:08 PM

          @jamezb46 it uses hbpcd just like the other sublingual studies.

          I don’t know these site rules but I do have a link to the seller, but it’s an underground overseas steroid lab basically.

          W M 2 Replies Last reply Jul 23, 2024, 3:12 PM Reply Quote 0
          • W
            wester130 @RFC32
            last edited by wester130 Jul 23, 2024, 3:13 PM Jul 23, 2024, 3:12 PM

            @RFC32

            half lfie looks very short though, they never overcame this problem

            I think vitamin E is the only thing that overcomes the short half life

            off topic - they are making DMT sublingual with HPBCD

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • M
              metabolicmilk @RFC32
              last edited by Jul 23, 2024, 11:29 PM

              @RFC32 @wester130 what are the pros/cons of vitamin e vs HPBCD ?

              W 1 Reply Last reply Jul 24, 2024, 6:28 AM Reply Quote 0
              • W
                wester130 @metabolicmilk
                last edited by wester130 Jul 24, 2024, 6:39 AM Jul 24, 2024, 6:28 AM

                @metabolicmilk said in Revisiting Oral Testosterone:

                HPBCD

                vitamin E hypothetically increases half life and total body absorption.
                however - no studies on the internet exist of people doing testosterone base in vitamin E

                HPBCD seems to work and could help for about 6 hours, but still goes to the liver

                this patent explains why steroids dissolved in vitamin e works so well

                https://patents.google.com/patent/CN111529488A/en

                also,
                https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/1043/vitamin-e-as-solvent-for-hormones/4

                https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/molecules-dissolved-in-vitamin-e-preferentially-target-brain-injuries.51283/

                R 1 Reply Last reply Jul 25, 2024, 3:39 PM Reply Quote 0
                • R
                  RFC32 @wester130
                  last edited by RFC32 Jul 25, 2024, 4:53 PM Jul 25, 2024, 3:39 PM

                  @wester130 thank you!

                  And yes, half life is noticeably short, I peak after an hour and then the difference is noticeable after three hours.

                  It’s actually a problem as well, because you can’t load your dose up high or things feel awful fast when everything hits at once.

                  I am definitely allergic to hbcpd though which is unfortunate.

                  Edit: I want to add that the low half life of HBCPD with testosterone is well supported in literature. When they used it in testing they did 5 mg 3 times a day to get testosterone levels up to acceptable.

                  My assumption is with vitamin e we may be able to increase dosage and decrease frequency, or even do the same and see how it goes.

                  I know people in the forums were talking about how 1mg Ray would take seems way too little. But my experience with sublingual shows there is likely a large effect.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • M
                    metabolicmilk
                    last edited by Jul 26, 2024, 8:57 PM

                    What do you think the ultimate hormone stack ratio would be?

                    I think a solution of 4:3:3:1 of T:DHT:Prog:DHEA sounds good.

                    Also - What do you think about making a solution of 80:20 Vitamin E : DMSO

                    Just for better absorption and solubility of hormones.

                    J R 3 Replies Last reply Jul 26, 2024, 11:39 PM Reply Quote 0
                    • M
                      metabolicmilk
                      last edited by Jul 26, 2024, 8:58 PM

                      @RFC32 @wester130

                      What are your favourite sources of vitamin E?

                      W 1 Reply Last reply Jul 26, 2024, 10:03 PM Reply Quote 0
                      • W
                        wester130 @metabolicmilk
                        last edited by Jul 26, 2024, 10:03 PM

                        @metabolicmilk said in Revisiting Oral Testosterone:

                        @RFC32 @wester130

                        What are your favourite sources of vitamin E?

                        healthnatura

                        idealabs

                        cliganic looks interesting

                        now foods make a basic vitamin e that is acceptable

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • J
                          jamezb46 @metabolicmilk
                          last edited by Jul 26, 2024, 11:39 PM

                          @metabolicmilk

                          Hey that’s my ratio 😍

                          In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • J
                            jamezb46 @metabolicmilk
                            last edited by Jul 26, 2024, 11:41 PM

                            @metabolicmilk

                            I could not get vitamin E to mix with DMSO, I would not recommend this. Unless you’re talking about dissolving d-alpha tocopherol acetate in DMSO. That may well work, but according to Ray the acetate ester is about 50% as effective as the nonesterified tocopherols.

                            In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • R
                              RFC32 @metabolicmilk
                              last edited by Jul 27, 2024, 4:11 PM

                              @metabolicmilk

                              If you’re going to go dmso just go straight dmso and apply on the balls. Otherwise tocopherol and ethanol sublingual seems best to me.

                              Testosterone has felt so much better to me than the other hormones to me that’s the ultimate one.

                              I avoid dmso because it makes my breath and sweat smell so my wife doesn’t like it. Also anything topical I worry about getting on my kids, especially if it’s in large amounts. Too easily to spill, get on clothing, or get on hands. I know dmso fully absorbs but I still have trouble trusting it, if my kids had hormonal issues from my experiments I’d never forgive myself.

                              I’m considering just injecting but my wife is against it. Managing estrogen is a pain but I’m willing to do it.

                              I will say pregnenolone and DHEA help my brain function a lot. Chess scores go way up as does mood.

                              PrinceTrebataP thyroidchor27T 2 Replies Last reply Aug 17, 2024, 12:17 AM Reply Quote 0
                              • Crypt KeeperC
                                Crypt Keeper
                                last edited by Aug 16, 2024, 6:03 PM

                                I tried an experiment to dissolve testosterone powder in NOW Vitamin E oil and even at 8 drops (1133% RDA of Vitamin E) I could not get 5mg of testosterone to dissolve.

                                My conclusion is that Vitamin E is not a practical solvent for testosterone ingestion.

                                W J 2 Replies Last reply Aug 16, 2024, 8:49 PM Reply Quote 0
                                • W
                                  wester130 @Crypt Keeper
                                  last edited by Aug 16, 2024, 8:49 PM

                                  @Crypt-Keeper just 5ml of food grade ethanol mixed in would solve it

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • PrinceTrebataP
                                    PrinceTrebata @RFC32
                                    last edited by Aug 17, 2024, 12:17 AM

                                    @RFC32 Whats your pregnenolone dose, and source?

                                    KilgoreK 1 Reply Last reply Aug 17, 2024, 3:29 AM Reply Quote 0
                                    • KilgoreK
                                      Kilgore @PrinceTrebata
                                      last edited by Aug 17, 2024, 3:29 AM

                                      @PrinceTrebata Be careful where you order from as my Pregnenolone and Progesterone was refused by Canadian Customs

                                      I think if you order from Idealabs it will get through as I got my CortiNon (Progesterone + DHEA) from there with no issues.

                                      PrinceTrebataP 1 Reply Last reply Aug 17, 2024, 5:50 PM Reply Quote 0
                                      • PrinceTrebataP
                                        PrinceTrebata @Kilgore
                                        last edited by Aug 17, 2024, 5:50 PM

                                        @Kilgore Thanks for the heads up! I live close to the border so I might set up a po box and and pick it up. I wonder why the Canadian government is so tight fisted about supplements.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • J
                                          jamezb46 @Crypt Keeper
                                          last edited by Aug 17, 2024, 9:19 PM

                                          @Crypt-Keeper that was my experience also. It dissolves very well in DMSO + Ethanol, however. Transdermal is the way I think.

                                          In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life

                                          Crypt KeeperC 1 Reply Last reply Aug 17, 2024, 10:50 PM Reply Quote 0
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