Can Cyproheptadine irritate the lungs causing bleeding?
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@yerrag bronchiectasis and asthma.
Bleeding from my mouth. I've had blood from time to time and more noticeable when first getting up from laying down.
I don't feel unwell.
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The blood is a big red flag. If I have to guess, it means you aren't making enough mucus to protect your capillaries from tissue damage. Thin mucus is rich with reduced glutathione in the form sulfhydryl bonds (SH) whereas thick mucus is made of oxidized glutathione in the form of disulfide bonds (GSSG).
But what really destroys the capillaries are spillover ROS from immune cells making ROS to neutralize infections and possibly swallow up toxins with phagocytes
This likely means your lungs are dealing with either toxins or infections or both. And this is not something that readily gets resolved and is recurring and eventually becomes a chronic condition.
The blood coming out is not a good sign no matter how small the blood coming out is. What steps are being taken to deal with your condition?
I suppose a pulmologist will prescribe you some NAC to be nebulized or orally taken, and prescribe nebulizers as well as antibiotics.
Do you expect your condition to be cured or are you going to always to be in need of prescription drugs to deal with it?
As far as your question on cyproheptadine being an irritant, it isn't likely as the amount taken is not a lot.
But given your lung condition, the lungs are not going to be expected to do a good job of deactivating serotonin. And so you you may sleep issues arising from having plenty of free serotonin getting into the brain.
I had lung problems last year that I'm glad is finally over. From that experience I learned first hand the issues with lung problems which I feared would remain permanently with me. I'm just glad I found a way out and I have pretty much restored the full functionality and strength of my lungs.
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serotonin promotes blood coagulation, so cyproheptadine being anti-serotonin may have a blood thinning effect.
"Cyproheptadine can also cause bleeding issues, so I would not use it together with aspirin. Anything that inhibits serotonin will reduce platelet aggregation." (haidut)
"Something to consider.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24466319
'...Collectively, our data indicate that the antidepressant 5-HT2A antagonists, cyproheptadine and pizotifen do exert antiplatelet and thromboprotective effects, but similar to clopidogrel and EMD 281014, their use may interfere with normal hemostasis.'I have seen other studies as well stating that cyproheptadine is known to prolong bleeding time in rodents so it was not considered optimal for some animal models such as hemorrhaging shock." (haidut)
maybe try a k2 supplement with it
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@yerrag not producing enough mucous - yes - with bronchiectasis the mucous isn't flowing normally due to the distended tissue at the base of my lungs. I cough up lumps.
Medication I take: ciclesonide and montelukast.
I sneeze all year round so I take antihistamines when I get fed up with it. It's quite anti social and tiresome.
I didn't take the ciclesonide one day and I think that resulted in the minimal bleeding. The bleeding is no longer presenting. I'm pretty sure that has happened before. I have scarring at the top of my lungs too - they feel scratchy and become productive if I miss the ciclesonide.
I do have a nebuliser which I bought myself. I'm in the UK. You only get to see a consultant if you're declining and having much difficulty. I could pay if course but I know what they'll say......
They'd never prescribe NAC here for my condition. I think they do for other lung issues.
I don't expect a cure. I seem to have managed better than expected. Yes I do remember talking about seretonin and the lungs....
I do wake every two hours with hot flushes.
I did read some of your traumatic situation last year and am delighted you are now well! Quite an ordeal.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
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@basebolt
"Serotonin promotes blood coagulation, so cyproheptadine being anti-serotonin may have a blood thinning effect.". - thank you, I didn't know that."Cyproheptadine can also cause bleeding issues, so I would not use it together with aspirin. Anything that inhibits serotonin will reduce platelet aggregation" - didn't know that either. I definitely can't take aspirin - my lungs quickly over produce mucous leaving me in a permanent state of coughing and unable to sleep at all.
maybe try a k2 supplement with it - I will try that.
Many thanks.
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@Lizb said (/post/23120):
Medication I take: ciclesonide
Seems that ciclesonide is a corticosteroid or steroid (cortisone-like medicine), cortisol aka stress hormone. It likely has long-term "side"-effects which might aggravate things, particularly those that are serotonin related.
Re anti-histamines, have you tried a diet that minimises histamine levels?
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@wrl I have tried the diet sometime ago. I'm more or less still with it but could look again with more interest!
I can't manage without the ciclesonide. I have tried many times. I've managed to ditch a handful of other medications that were prescribed and minimized others.
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@Lizb said in Can Cyproheptadine irritate the lungs causing bleeding?:
I have tried the diet sometime ago. I'm more or less still with it but could look again with more interest!
Broadly speaking,
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reduce pro histamine foods - see this list for an extensive overview on that: (its the SIGHI list)
https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/de/downloads.html#lm_en -
try things that boost histamine breakdown (search the old RP forum for this info using this google search:)
site:raypeatforum.com +"reduce" +"histamine"
— Fwiw the user redsun has fantastic information on histamine, it could provide useful insights! Eg:
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/studies-on-histamines-effects.34971/ -
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@wrl ooo thank you. I'll look at that.
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If your mucus is thick, you may be lacking in reduced gluthathione and have an excess of oxidized glutathione. You have to help your body produce more glutathione.
It's better than simply taking glutathione supplements as these only provide for external glutathione, whereas what you need is internal glutathione. So it is best to provide your body with adequate gelatine for glycine, and meet for cysteine and glutamic acid - and sulfur sources (like garlic, onions, and broccoli)- so that the body can produce internal glutathione needed to increase reduced glutathione such that the GSH/GSSG ratio favors thin mucus over thick mucus. It also ensures you have enough thin mucus that is always there to protect your tissues and capillaries lining up your lungs, bronchi, and alveoli.I was already eating 2 kg of beef tendons monthly for a while, and I think I have enough glutathione stores to help me quickly recover from bronchiectasis quickly and steadily.
I had used budenoside. Just like ciclenoside, they are corticosteroids that are helpful in reducing inflammation. However, they do not address the cause of the inflammation just as antihistamines do not address the cause of inflammation. As such, they are maintenance drugs that leave you dependent on prescriptive to manage but not cure your lung ailments.
At the start, you will have to rely heavily on them, but when conditions become better, you only turn to using them when needed.
In my case, I used aromatherapy in the form of suppositories of a blend of essential oils to cure myself of my condition. And it worked. I relied on a book written by Kurt Schnaubelt PhD. And it gave me enough information to make my own blend. I was lucky enough that I had covered much material before my lung incident occurred, and it was much easier to get going from the ground up for me and create my own blend.
So if you have time to read up, get the book and brush up on it. It's Advances Aromatherapy: The Science of Essential Oil Therapy, Healing Arts Press 1995.
It isn't pharma medicine, which is narrow in the scope of what it does and does little by way of cure. It is superior in that it offered me a way out of having s breathing disability for the rest of my life. And it worked for me.
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@yerrag thank you.
All well noted. I appreciate the time you have taken. I do need to be more consistent with many things, including gelatin and collagen.
I've always ignored aromatherapy. I'll do some reading.
Very best.
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Hi,
I’d try selenium in a nebulizer (not a spray) to reach lung cells.
Se => glutathione.
E.g. Nutricology selenium liquid, 8 oz (236 ml).
½ tsp = 100 mcg Se sélénite
On iherb.com or vitacost.com
Morning and evening (in nebulization, otherwise useless), for 15 days. Pause 10 days. Once more.
Référence: Dr Klinghardt, when trying to cure asthma (inflammation).
Note: I suppose you’ve informed there are histamine liberator and histamine producer (PDF). I you eat food with biogenic amines like banana, you’ll overload the liver.
Mind excess stress too. + Sulfite, glutamate.
To help getting rid of histamine, I’ve been using naturDAO 1 000 000 UI (DAO = enzyme to metabolize excess histamine). -
@Lizb Schnaubert gives plenty of useful information which I have to take time to understand before I begin to use the information to make my own blend. I hope you give it enough time for the information to sink in before you begin to apply it.
I wasn't rushing but I managed to put myself in a hole wrongly applying what I learned in a moment of clumsy oversight. And that was what caused me a year of dealing with the issue of the ensuing bronchitis that eventually led to my nadir of heart failure. I learned that lesson and subsequently used the book to heel myself of my bronchitis.
So, I cannot stress enough the need for caution, especially in making sure all T's are crossed and I's dotted before proceeding. I consider myself thorough but despite that I still fell through the cracks.
But overall, because I learned a lot from personally having a lung issue and how it relates to developing edema leading to my heart failure, the insight it gave me was an education I value. I especially relish the part where I overcame hopelessness in fearing I would not get my lungs back to turning the tide back to healing and recovery to my former robust lung state. My lungs have always been strong and I have high endurance and can swim underwater for long stretches, and I back where I used to be.
With the right technique, many things that appear insurmountable just simply are easy to overcome. I have gotten used to doctors saying it's genetic and impossible like it's written in stone, and dismissing their loser attitude and training in favor of Ray Peat's belief in the wisdom of the body.
I hope you can be hopeful and positive in a way that isn't shaped by Jewish aphorisms so predominant in the western culture. Yes, I'm talking real hope instead of false pallative hope.
