Glucose loading cures everything?
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@evan-hinkle Apologies if you already said...how much are you taking?
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I'm not sure if it does not have any negative tradeoffs. In going to the polyol pathway, if the sorbitol produced from glucose does not convert to fructose entirely, the sorbitol could cause osmotic stress within the eye and lead to diabetic retinopathy.
But this is just a lazy search using Google, which I have to take with a grain of salt.
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@S-Holmes I’m taking 60g 4 times a day
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@evan-hinkle said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@yerrag I don’t have a definitive answer, but in his lectures he suggests that the glucose is digested in the small intestine, (prior to reaching potential issue with microbes in the large intestine-not sure where SIBO would come into play there).
This is true with glucose. Which is why it's better to take glucose than fructose as there will be some sugar that gets into the large intestine, and glucose is much less likely than fructose to feed the gut microbes in a way that causes gut issues.
He also mentioned in a lecture that in order to better understand why it works he would need volunteers for spinal taps and one other procedure, (I forget) that obviously no one is volunteering for. I personally wonder if using a radioactive substance in mice would lend any clarity on the how or why?
I think it's a given the brain uses sugar for energy almost exclusively, so glucose loading would benefit the brain, but not simply because glucose van be delivered to the brain, but because the brain cells can use the glucose to produce the energy needed by the brain. But how efficiently it produces energy is dependent on factors such as how well oxygenated the brain tissues are as well as how freely blood is perfused through the capillaries, which is dependent on the health of the microcirculation.
I don't know much about spinal taps and what the fluid it draws consist of, to know how it would help find answers.
Personally I’m “lucky” to have suffered with poor dental health for years, and as such as soon as glucose goes in my mouth, my teeth get harder, whiter, and shiny/smooth. I’m not sure if this suggests that uptake or “digestion” is even taking place in the mouth, prior to the small intestine, but it’s what I’m experiencing, so I thought I’d throw it out there.
Interesting. I'm sure your dentist is just as flummoxed. I am just as intrigued.
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@evan-hinkle Do you know of any reason why one or two doses a day couldn't be used to sweeten my coffee? I've been doing that but not sure if it's helpful. I am also somewhat concerned about gaining weight.
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@S-Holmes I’ve heard some people suggest that coffee could be somewhat contrary to the glucose therapy. However those people don’t tend to share a bioenergetic framework through which they look at life.
Me personally, my first “dose” of 60g is “split” amongst 8oz of juice, and two 8oz cups of coffee with milk. My three remaining doses are typically just sprinkled on a meal, or in a smoothie. But I start my day with 8oz of juice with 1/4 tsp baking soda and 20g of dextrose, (I mix the dextrose with the juice first, and then react the baking soda). Then right after I drink my 2 coffees, 8oz coffee, 4oz milk, 20g dextrose, (times 2).
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@evan-hinkle Excellent! I was hoping to use it more in place of sucrose and it sounds like you're doing that as well, and with positive results!
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@S-Holmes It makes sense to me. If your brain is well fed, it can stop signalling the body to release/make more fuel, which can't get into the brain anyhow (due to stress and injuries). So the glucose stops the cascade by nourishing the brain, bypassing the digestive process and going directly to the brain where it's needed.
How is the digestive process bypassed? I fail to see the logic. One way the digestive process is bypassed is by IV feeding. But I don't know if this is what you mean.
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@yerrag This is the best I can do for now.
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It bypasses the process needed to break food down into glucose, gluconeogenesis is the term I believe.
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Stephens call his glucose ahah moment an inspiration from God.
If he were more honest about it, he would reference Ray Peat as well as Prof. Gershom Zajicek ( who talked about using glucose to restore the beta cells of the pancreas to restore the production of insulin).
But he may just be simply unaware others have thought of this idea. Stephens comes from a neuropsychological background, which is not exactly blessed with sound science given the scores of patients they have sent to hopelessness and despair and suicide.
But he was astute enough to notice how many patients with concussive injuries could benefit from glucose loading to overcome brain injuries.
But he attributes all of the brain's problems with lack of sugar to physical injuries, as that is the limit or scope of his clinical practice being a neuropsychologist. But he fails to consider that there has been for a long time a concerted effort by the establishment to blame all of society's health problems on sugar. Seconded by armchair YouTube experts that amplify this line. So a lot more damage on our brains has been done by conditioning us to hate sugar.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
I haven't quite figured out how or why the brain downregulates sugar usage following every stress (any kind of stress). Stress seems to trigger lipolysis (vs glycolysis) and the damage is CUMULATIVE. Is this why stress kills? I've ordered his latest book. Hopefully he addresses this in depth.
I don't agree with framing low sugar usage by the brain to be caused by the brain downregulating sugar usage. The brain can keep sending signals for sugar to be delivered to it by blood, as well as oxygen, but it can only direct but the cardiovascular system is the one that fulfills that directive, subject to its state of health. If the tissues cannot absorb glucose because say potassium is deficient, there is nothing the brain can do. Likewise with oxygen, if CO2 is deficient in blood, hemoglobin will not release oxygen to the brain cells.
What specific stress are you referring to that triggers lipolysis? That presupposes stress is needed to trigger lipolysis. But what if lipolysis is just a regular process to release fats from fat stores to be used by fatty-acid oxidation as part of the body's ability to use different energy pathways (I.e. sugar oxidation and fat oxidation) to optimize energy production and conserve sugar for use by the brain?
In fact, one thing insulin does is to inhibit lipolysis. Which means that when blood sugar levels are stable and normal, and insulin is not produced, lipolysis goes on as a normal process in the body.
And this may be the reason why people with good and stable blood sugar levels do not get overweight nor obese, as they are constantly using up their fat stores for energy, and their fat stores do not accumulate.
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Gluconeogenesis isn't used in the digestive process.
Complex sugars are broken down to simple sugars down to becoming glucose, which is absorbed by the small intestine, and assimilated into blood as blood sugar.
Gluconeogenesis is when protein is broken down into glucogenic amino acids, which are further broken down to be used to make glucose. I believe the liver, and to some extent, the kidneys, does this.
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Just visited the RPF
So bizarre
The questions in this thread have again mostly been discussed by Ray
If not directly
Meaning not told exactly “how to do it”
This is where we are to perceive think actFrom my personal experience
And I healed from extremely poor health to now the greatest health I’ve ever had
Sugar was absolutely foundational
A foundation is what we build uponBut
Im here to say
As I said over thereStress hormones desensitize the insulin receptor
From birth to now, most of us have had some sort of stress that is shaped our experience of our health
With chronic stress comes many things all of which desensitizes the insulin receptorWhen you reintroduce sugar your body is essentially already in an insulin resistant state
The stress hormones flooding your system overtime have desensitized the insulin receptor so insulin cannot drive glucose into the cell anymore….I point this out because the more I used this wonderful “nutrient”
The more I was able to handle it and really reap the benefits of using it not only in relatively large quantities- my ability to utilize it as a therapeutic tool only got better and better
But the beginning was rough
Really rough
Due to my stressed metabolic stateAnyway
Just stunned that Ray isn’t understood nor acknowledged on his own forum
I grieve that shitPlease listen to him here
He addresses a lot iircA prophet
A genius
And a friendOne act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.
-DB
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I was in awe having a scroll of it this morning. Their power struggles and appeals to spertise occasionally gets a bit shakespearian. Someone could probably write an entertaining novel about RPF.
Aside from that Ms Peatful. I know the feelings. Beside and probably not distinct from the science.
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All a bit strange hey Mr Yerrag. I find myself affirm to your observation.
Meanwhile, I get the feeling there's something in this. I'll have to read around quite a lot, enjoy surrounding conversation and sleep well I guess. All I can do right now is speculate. That the fructose is unwelcome to him for myocardial reasons and the glucose still benefits for structural and therefore metabolic reasons. Probably not without personal consequence. But at least it begs some questions.
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@Peatful Could you expound on "rough"? I had a very strange burning pain from my neck to the bottom of my ribs yesterday (right side). I put an aspirin under my tongue and took a homeopathic remedy to treat stroke, just in case. It lasted about 15 minutes and then I was fine.
If not for Dr.Peat I wouldn't have given the sucrose protocol a second look. I think he saved my life, but I still have lingering issues, and weight gain which is difficult because I was very thin my entire life. So I'm willing to try anything to feel better. I've been on Nathan Hatch's protocol for a few months, and it was helpful but still didn't quite get me "there." (I still use some of the things he suggests.)
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@yerrag Right, I was referring to fuel being obtained from protein or fat. Simple sugars are absorbed in the stomach, not the intestines. That's what I meant by bypassing the digestive process.
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@Insomniac but here’s the kicker, my blood glucose levels are lower. Where I was spiking to 150 after a meal I’m now spiking to 125. Every time I check my blood glucose it’s 20-30 points lower than my typical readings without dextrose.
