Glucose loading cures everything?

S.Holmes

@Insomniac I've also read everything and listened to every podcast I could find. There IS science to back this up so definitely not "faith based."

happyhanneke

@S-Holmes
I've read his book and have been curious about this protocol for a while. But I don't want to gain weight. I already gained using progest-e that seem to not work for me at all. (female 59)
So are you gaining weight or too soon to tell?

S.Holmes

@happyhanneke I don't seem to be. Aside from the initial water retention I seem to be holding.

Insomniac

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S.Holmes

@Insomniac I get it. Being cautious is never a bad idea. There are enough of us willing lab rats that it's ok to sit this one out.

Insomniac

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S.Holmes

@Insomniac I wonder what the rest of their diet looked like. You can't eat fast food and fries every day (I never do). His 100% cure rate is from people who actually worked with him. It isn't fair to judge him based on anything other than that.

Insomniac

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CrumblingCookie

Hello there.
I've started this a week ago and I'm on 200gr of dextrose per day.
The first night was filled with vivid dreaming of a kind I probably have had to catch up with for a very long time (I dreamt of a prior surgery experience when I had actually been under full anesthesia). However, the 25gr's effects waned after about 3,5-4 hours. Whenever this happened, my pulse rose for no reason (I've been having this for years).
About half an hours after the next dose, the dextrose's effect kicked back in for me and I was calm and off to another 4hrs of deep yet eventful sleeping.

About two days in I suddenly had watery diarrhea for half a day.
About a day or two later, I had strong gastrointestinal cramping with a high frequency of almost spastic bowel movements. These were relieved several hours after ingesting psyllium and activated charcoal. I suggest glucose definitely sets some things in motion about restoring forwards peristalsis/motility of the gut and digestive organs.

The pure dextrose is really totally different to sucrose or honey. Pure dextrose powder is also so much better than those sour little fruit-flavoured dextrose tabs/lozenges available for purchase. Those are sickening after only a few and had been my only prior experiences with dextrose.

After a couple of days, however, my high pulse remained and it felt as if the dextrose had no more effect. I was also craving something which at first I mistook for being thirsty or hungry:
I need a few mgs of thiamin with each dextrose dose and 1.5grs of potassium chloride. The latter tastes surprisingly extraordinarily good with dextrose.
Both potassium and chloride ions are essential for increasing glucose phosporylation, intracellular (structured) water and volume, and the full-on insulin production and release from pancreatic beta cells. Fructose inhibits all of that.
Sodium is shit. Sodium enhances the cortisol and adrenaline signalling and by this is contrary to the utilization of glucose.
With these, thiamin and potassium chloride, the dextrose dosing has been working for me for the past days without weird cravings and its effects also seem to not wane as quickly as before (heart rate, etc). So I will continue with this regimen and perhaps increase it every week.

When I tried 50grs dextrose in the beginning, that was too much as my stomach felt heavy and I had a mild feeling of nausea.

Please give it some thoughts and a try yourselves. I would like to hear others experiences also for the chloride supply without sodium.

ThinPicking

@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

Sodium is shit. Sodium enhances the cortisol and adrenaline signalling and by this is contrary to the utilization of glucose.

Not according to renal function, Ray Peat, and my experience it isn't.

But hopefully we can shed some light on what's separating us.

CrumblingCookie

@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

Not according to renal function, Ray Peat, and my experience it isn't.

But hopefully we can shed some light on what's separating us.

I would be very interested in seeing this salt mysterium lifted. I hypothesize that a lot of the benefits felt from sodium chloride are due to the chloride ions. And in spite of the actual sodium fraction unless there's some acute benefit from its upping of adrenal hormone functions.

ThinPicking

@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

I would be very interested in seeing this salt mysterium lifted.

I think this has been done in the last 15 years at least. And RPF is a goldmine if you don't have an existing archive.

However my comment above was more for the room because your rejection was strong. If you're struggling with sodium, assuming you've had that trouble with it added to solid food, not in attempt to find a concentration above hypotonic in a drink that "works" for you, and assuming you hadn't been adding a bolus of fluid on top of that food. Please don't change your behaviour or doubt yourself for the comment.

I'm currently down a few rabbit holes about this paradigm split. Which has been present for a lot longer than 6 months, I just didn't notice. Generally I'm paying far more attention to things I have no need to see for the whole experience. And hopefully for your benefit more than my nerd. There's obviously a reason nature likes fructose after all.

CC. Are you also a vitamin A disrespector?

Razvan

@CrumblingCookie
Lol

Razvan

@CrumblingCookie So you just created the account to say a bunch of trash? Hmmm.. suspicious.

ThinPicking

Raz... I know. I know.

But something is going on with them. Do you have people in your life who never seem to eat fruit or put sugar in tea or coffee? Because I do. Beside a monologue about oxidative metabolism, I never thought twice about it. Until recently. Maybe this is less of a thing in Romania (sorry if I got the place wrong).

Holmes was already here. And she started the thread. Only Brad can stop this being a thing really.

yerrag

Does anyone have a CGM to see a minute by minute status of blood sugar after taking in the bolus of dextrose? Actually, Dr. Stephens wouldn't find that hard to do. Instead of a spinal tap, he can ask his patient/clients if they can be a test subject, which isn't a hard ask at all.

It would tell us how high blood glucose went after the bolus intake before dropping, and how fast and how low blood sugar goes down. Does it go down so low to be hypoglycemic, and if not, why?

The fact that this is easy to do but not being done makes me suspicious that Dr. Stephens isn't really interested in getting to the meat of it, and would rather have this remain as s mystery.

yerrag

@yerrag

Of course, Stephens is a neuro guy. As a carpenter seeing everything as a nail, Stephens would want to use a spinal tap.

Insomniac

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S.Holmes

@yerrag What's in it for him? He told me his client fees are "whatever you can afford" meaning free for some. His books are by no means best sellers. He for sure isn't in this to get rich.

I see in Dr Stephens what made me a fan of Dr Peat many years ago. He believes everyone should have access to free or affordable health information that, instead of filling the coffers of the medical industrial complex, will actually promote health and well-being for any and all, and that it shouldn't only be accessible to the wealthy and elite.

So being the perennial lab rat that I am, I'm happy to participate in what may end up being a massive paradigm shifting experiment. So far so good.

ThinPicking

@yerrag said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

Of course, Stephens is a neuro guy. As a carpenter seeing everything as a nail, Stephens would want to use a spinal tap.

This I think. Although the CSF is closer to (his) wire. For the same reason he may be a little blind to the invasive/uncomfortable nature of it, temporarily.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10174426/

I've never had one, but know someone with hydrocephalus. These tests aren't very nice.