Glucose loading cures everything?
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@Insomniac I get it. Being cautious is never a bad idea. There are enough of us willing lab rats that it's ok to sit this one out.
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@Insomniac I wonder what the rest of their diet looked like. You can't eat fast food and fries every day (I never do). His 100% cure rate is from people who actually worked with him. It isn't fair to judge him based on anything other than that.
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Hello there.
I've started this a week ago and I'm on 200gr of dextrose per day.
The first night was filled with vivid dreaming of a kind I probably have had to catch up with for a very long time (I dreamt of a prior surgery experience when I had actually been under full anesthesia). However, the 25gr's effects waned after about 3,5-4 hours. Whenever this happened, my pulse rose for no reason (I've been having this for years).
About half an hours after the next dose, the dextrose's effect kicked back in for me and I was calm and off to another 4hrs of deep yet eventful sleeping.About two days in I suddenly had watery diarrhea for half a day.
About a day or two later, I had strong gastrointestinal cramping with a high frequency of almost spastic bowel movements. These were relieved several hours after ingesting psyllium and activated charcoal. I suggest glucose definitely sets some things in motion about restoring forwards peristalsis/motility of the gut and digestive organs.The pure dextrose is really totally different to sucrose or honey. Pure dextrose powder is also so much better than those sour little fruit-flavoured dextrose tabs/lozenges available for purchase. Those are sickening after only a few and had been my only prior experiences with dextrose.
After a couple of days, however, my high pulse remained and it felt as if the dextrose had no more effect. I was also craving something which at first I mistook for being thirsty or hungry:
I need a few mgs of thiamin with each dextrose dose and 1.5grs of potassium chloride. The latter tastes surprisingly extraordinarily good with dextrose.
Both potassium and chloride ions are essential for increasing glucose phosporylation, intracellular (structured) water and volume, and the full-on insulin production and release from pancreatic beta cells. Fructose inhibits all of that.
Sodium is shit. Sodium enhances the cortisol and adrenaline signalling and by this is contrary to the utilization of glucose.
With these, thiamin and potassium chloride, the dextrose dosing has been working for me for the past days without weird cravings and its effects also seem to not wane as quickly as before (heart rate, etc). So I will continue with this regimen and perhaps increase it every week.When I tried 50grs dextrose in the beginning, that was too much as my stomach felt heavy and I had a mild feeling of nausea.
Please give it some thoughts and a try yourselves. I would like to hear others experiences also for the chloride supply without sodium.
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@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Sodium is shit. Sodium enhances the cortisol and adrenaline signalling and by this is contrary to the utilization of glucose.
Not according to renal function, Ray Peat, and my experience it isn't.
But hopefully we can shed some light on what's separating us.
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@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Not according to renal function, Ray Peat, and my experience it isn't.
But hopefully we can shed some light on what's separating us.
I would be very interested in seeing this salt mysterium lifted. I hypothesize that a lot of the benefits felt from sodium chloride are due to the chloride ions. And in spite of the actual sodium fraction unless there's some acute benefit from its upping of adrenal hormone functions.
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@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
I would be very interested in seeing this salt mysterium lifted.
I think this has been done in the last 15 years at least. And RPF is a goldmine if you don't have an existing archive.
However my comment above was more for the room because your rejection was strong. If you're struggling with sodium, assuming you've had that trouble with it added to solid food, not in attempt to find a concentration above hypotonic in a drink that "works" for you, and assuming you hadn't been adding a bolus of fluid on top of that food. Please don't change your behaviour or doubt yourself for the comment.
I'm currently down a few rabbit holes about this paradigm split. Which has been present for a lot longer than 6 months, I just didn't notice. Generally I'm paying far more attention to things I have no need to see for the whole experience. And hopefully for your benefit more than my nerd. There's obviously a reason nature likes fructose after all.
CC. Are you also a vitamin A disrespector?
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@CrumblingCookie
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@CrumblingCookie So you just created the account to say a bunch of trash? Hmmm.. suspicious.
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Raz... I know. I know.
But something is going on with them. Do you have people in your life who never seem to eat fruit or put sugar in tea or coffee? Because I do. Beside a monologue about oxidative metabolism, I never thought twice about it. Until recently. Maybe this is less of a thing in Romania (sorry if I got the place wrong).
Holmes was already here. And she started the thread. Only Brad can stop this being a thing really.
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Does anyone have a CGM to see a minute by minute status of blood sugar after taking in the bolus of dextrose? Actually, Dr. Stephens wouldn't find that hard to do. Instead of a spinal tap, he can ask his patient/clients if they can be a test subject, which isn't a hard ask at all.
It would tell us how high blood glucose went after the bolus intake before dropping, and how fast and how low blood sugar goes down. Does it go down so low to be hypoglycemic, and if not, why?
The fact that this is easy to do but not being done makes me suspicious that Dr. Stephens isn't really interested in getting to the meat of it, and would rather have this remain as s mystery.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
Of course, Stephens is a neuro guy. As a carpenter seeing everything as a nail, Stephens would want to use a spinal tap.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
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@yerrag What's in it for him? He told me his client fees are "whatever you can afford" meaning free for some. His books are by no means best sellers. He for sure isn't in this to get rich.
I see in Dr Stephens what made me a fan of Dr Peat many years ago. He believes everyone should have access to free or affordable health information that, instead of filling the coffers of the medical industrial complex, will actually promote health and well-being for any and all, and that it shouldn't only be accessible to the wealthy and elite.
So being the perennial lab rat that I am, I'm happy to participate in what may end up being a massive paradigm shifting experiment. So far so good.
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@yerrag said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Of course, Stephens is a neuro guy. As a carpenter seeing everything as a nail, Stephens would want to use a spinal tap.
This I think. Although the CSF is closer to (his) wire. For the same reason he may be a little blind to the invasive/uncomfortable nature of it, temporarily.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10174426/
I've never had one, but know someone with hydrocephalus. These tests aren't very nice.
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@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@evan-hinkle said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
so maybe a quarter tsp or so of added salt per meal
Thanks Evan. I'm not reducing what's going on here to this, but still...
That doesn't sound like very much to me and Jennifer is certainly right about this.
I agree that salted food tastes over-salted after a period of reduced salt intake.
In my experience if I'm lacking in it for a while, I have to slowly ramp up. Or resist a thirst response. And vice versa. If I overdo it. I have to slowly add water. And resist a salt taste. But the latter is very rare for me these days.
I consider Rays "salt to taste" line a cautionary. Because so many people in so many different states would pick up on it. Haidut and others posts on RPF were more useful to me in pushing the boat, so to speak. And finding out that more was better, for me.
This has been my experience, as well. For the majority of my life my diet has been unprocessed so my taste for salt was low, but a practitioner recommended I increase my salt intake and it turned out that more was better for me, too.
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On the advice of @ThinPicking , (and some studies I read “over there” ive decided to up the salt. Today is day one, we’ll see. I never ate salt growing up, so the two tsp a day I was eating over the past year or so was an insane amount to me, lol.
On another note, I’ve decided to lower my dose of glucose. I had a hit to do so today and it felt “right.” I have heard that perhaps when the brain “wakes up” keeping it in a steady supply more frequently is a better strategy than larger doses 3-4 times a day. I have found this to be true, as the larger doses seemed to return the very symptoms that had originally been eliminated. The lower dose with more frequency, (same daily total dosage) has again eliminated the brain fog and returned the state I was initially experiencing.
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@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
I'm currently down a few rabbit holes about this paradigm split. Which has been present for a lot longer than 6 months, I just didn't notice. Generally I'm paying far more attention to things I have no need to see for the whole experience. And hopefully for your benefit more than my nerd.
Please do share the findings you unearth when you resurface from that. I can't stem more of that myself right now. I know there's a lot. Only last month haidut also wrote about sodium chloride again in a brief sum-up, the deductions of which I found very unsatisfactory and essentially inconclusive. I reckon you will find a lot of positives on glucose utilization through oxphos and insuline responses by potassium and chloride. And by magnesium on a later, deeply intracellular level.
@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
But something is going on with them. Do you have people in your life who never seem to eat fruit or put sugar in tea or coffee? Because I do. Beside a monologue about oxidative metabolism, I never thought twice about it. Until recently.
Have you noticed any other common traits in these people? As in eating extraordinarily lots of starches or vegetables? Or having had a fortunate upbringing without events which fostered and engrained the notorious learned helplessness and its associated chronic metabolic shifts?
@yerrag said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Of course, Stephens is a neuro guy. As a carpenter seeing everything as a nail, Stephens would want to use a spinal tap.
If we're after the question of where and how the given dextrose really disappears into across the different tissues I can see the necessity to align measurements of BG with measurements in CSF over time. My impression also is that he says those remarks about spinal taps in a slightly humorous way and he wouldn't really want to perform them. He's a psychologist, after all, with a specialized understanding for neurological patterns as these relate to behaviour. Spinal tapping would need to be done by clinical experimental neurologists or neuropsychiatrists with an understanding for a variety of specific markers for energy metabolism which are not usually part of even extended CSF testing panels and certainly not in ambulatory settings. It could be wise to kindly decline if anyone ever offers you an ambulatory spinal tap.
@Razvan
If you're doing perfectly well with regard to your physical and mental health by all means continue whatever you use to do but don't flatter yourself by falsely assuming that I were here to talk shit with you. -
Having a mystery live on requires a high priest and a cult surrounding and supporting that priesthood.
Keeping things as a mystery disables rather than enables. Having an ignorance and joyfully accepting it goes with the false virtue of humility hat comes with saying "I am not worthy."
If the mystery is gone and you know why, in this case, dextrose loading restores your brain as well as the entire body's metabolic capacity, wouldn't you be off on your own instead of having to rely on the possibility that you need to be coached by Dr. Stephens as a fallback if your experimenting goes awry?
Aren't there enough mysteries around us that makes the world dependent on high priests to weave a fairy tale existence revolving around many phenomena that can't be proven yet accepted by the mainstream? Such as the existence of virus and the rabbitholes of rabies and COVID that emanate from our worship of those who claim to understand what we cannot fathom?
