Glucose loading cures everything?
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How is everyone doing? I'm revisiting a 15 year old symptom, frozen (painful) shoulder It's kind of rough, but I'm pushing through.
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I'm in pretty horrible shape. I am getting ready to reach out to Dr. Stephens, but I just saw your post. I am emotionally breaking down, and I don't know what to do. I don't really blame the glucose, as my life keeps getting more and more desperate with or without it. It's been six weeks, and I haven't really seen it make a positive difference in any of my symptoms. If anything, everything is slightly worse. I just don't have the strength to push through much longer. His results have been literally unbelievable, but I keep thinking that it can't work for everyone. That's where I am at currently. I hope to snap out of it and find some kind of stable footing.
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@GlucoseOrBust I'm so sorry to hear this. I wonder if the unavoidable stresses in your life are keeping you from moving forward. Of course I don't know for certain if that's the situation. The good doctor does say there will be difficulties, but seeing even a little improvement would certainly help at this point.
Two of my husband's brothers played football through college. One is 64 and the other is 61. They're big guys who played the most injurious positions.They literally began falling apart about 10 years ago and are both in desperately bad conditions. I wish I could help them but at this point I'm not optimistic, and they've been very influenced by the sugar haters so it likely won't happen.
In my case, for now I'm taking a lot of aspirin, ibuprofin and magnesium. If I can get past this episode I'll be more encouraged...but who knows what will hit next. My old homeopath used to say when you clean house you're going to stir up a little dust. I didn't expect a whirlwind, but that's where I've been more than once.
My husband is still on the lowest dose. He seems to be doing fine. I have always managed his symptoms with energy medicine (homeopathy mostly) and he responds very well (lucky guy).
Hoping the best for you, and a breakthrough soon!!!
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@S-Holmes I appreciate you. I hope you get through your trials and out the other end with all the lessons and none of the suffering.
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I've received my order of 10kgs "organic" dextrose and am wondering whether that makes any difference to "regular" dextrose.
The organic dextrose comes in large, white, PP plastic containers and at the first (and every ensuing) opening of that container I was taken aback by a distinct plasticky smell. Luckily, however, no matter how hard I try I cannot sense that plasticky smell from the dextrose powder once I've taken it out of that container. So that's good.
Taste-wise, this particular organic dextrose seemed even "softer" than regular dextrose but I'm not very sure about this and whether that's a good (extra pure?) or a bad (solvents?) sign.
I will work/drink my way through it and report back.Experience update:
6 weeks into dextrose now.
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In the meantime I had been taking 2grams of BCAAs (2:1:1) with every serving of dextrose for over a week, because of the thoughts from this thread on the amino acids / tryptophan shift. I will need to report back over there, too.
Essentially, taking BCAAs did not work at all for me.
Not only did it not improve my response to glucose, but it worsened it.
I reckon that's due to both the BCAAs direct effects as well as due to that it lowered my appetite and thus significantly reduced my intake of proper food during that time.
Eventually I added an additional >5grams of glycine everyday to the BCAAs, because intuitively I felt that my feeling weird and "off" was less from a glycine/BCAA combo.
I think BCAA products should be grouped/blended with glycine as a standard.
Anyways, they all constistently exarcerbated my intestinal upset, causing me mucuous and watery diarrhea in a sort intestinal colic. I gradually, measurably and visibly lost an excess almost 3kgs body weight (which I had suddenly put on back in April for reasons unknown).
Also, I did sleep well anymore. That glucose-benefit on deep and coherent sleep was completely gone.
Not at all what was expected and hoped for by correcting the presumed glucose-induced free tryptophan increase. -
Also, while having taken the BCAAs, my previous increase from 56grs to 100grs dextrose servings seemed to have been to harsh.
I felt nausea all the time and the dextrose did not taste nice anymore but almost unbearably, undrinkably sweet.
I had been wanting to reduce the dextrose for over a week, but pushed through - waiting for improvement. And also because I was too unwilling to measure a lower serving size and count stupidly many tablespoons. (I have lots of 2 oz. / 64ml scoops which were supplied with protein powders. Once such scoop measure 50grs of dextrose.)
Eventually, I decreased to 80grs per serving. This was much more bearable.
But its effect also did not last for the full time between servings anymore.
On the plus side, this remembered me to properly eat all day.
Especially so once I stopped the appetite-suppressing BCAAs-Glycine. -
With no BCAAs-Glycine and my food intake back up (beef, lamb, haricots verts), suddenly the glucose "kicked back in":
I finally experienced that familiar physical weakness and calm tiredness for several days and got back better sleep again.
My weight is back up, sadly. In part surely also due to not being reverse-puked-empty in the intestines.
I hypothesize that it's very essential to keep eating properly while on dextrose.
I hypothesize that this is one of the reasons for the recommendation of an only gradual increase of dextrose serving sizes - to not lower intake of proper foods but supply extra energy as needed with an ever-increasing (healing) baseline. -
I now also feel the need for more thiamin (B1) for the glucose. I will increase it to double-digits with every serving.
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I continue to have profound issues with fat digestion or bile uptake. Even the slightest amount of fat in my food is terrible for me and comes out as oily BMs.
Cholestyramine did not work. I reckon it's either a mucosal (uptake) issue or maybe an amount or quality of bile issue.
I don't know what to do about the former.
For the latter (and instead of more glycine) I now take .7grs of taurine with every dextrose serving to increase my capacity for necessary bile acids conjugation (700mgs taurine is a level 1ml scoop).
As many of you may know, taurine usually (and probably especially in use pre-damaged susceptible people) absolutely shatters glucose levels. With ample glucose I am pleased to find I can now tolerate taurine.
Summary:
Currently 5-6x daily: 80-100grs dextrose + 1.5grs potassium chloride + 10mgs thiamin with low other B-vitamins + 700mgs taurine.
Making sure to eat enough meat every day.Perhaps the carnivore+dextrose type which DS briefly mentioned is particularly beneficial? Part of me expects wildly increased aging from advanced glycation end products. What relevance has weight and age appearance in the face of my daily misery, though.
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@CrumblingCookie
Thank you for the update! I wonder if many of our struggles are discussed in Dr Stephens FB video series. (Sadly, I can't access it since the great FB purge a few years ago.)Part of me expects wildly increased aging from advanced glycation end products. What relevance has weight and age appearance in the face of my daily misery, though.
I've been wondering about this too. Most people think I'm 20 years younger than my age, but my skin seems to be aging more rapidly now.
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@GlucoseOrBust I'm really sorry to hear you're not well. Would it be an issue for the treatment to stop it or try a lower the dose for a few days, and see if you feel better?
Are you using any kind of markers to see if you're body likes what you're doing? Pulse, temperature? Fingers crossed you feel better soon!
If my theory about the Itaconate shunt is correct it doesn't make sense that large doses are necessary. I've been wearing a continuous BG monitor for a few days and my blood sugar sometimes goes up fast after meals, then drops quickly. I can't really make sense of it, I'll respond differently to the same exact meal as yesterday. I'll respond differently to the glucose alone throughout the day; no patterns yet. Sometimes rises, sometimes stabilizes, sometimes drops quickly.
I wasn't wearing the monitor when I did bigger doses, but I tested many times during those days, and it seemed to drop very fast after meals. I don't know how high it went before that, as my spikes are very short-lived usually. My puls was low, but I felt like it was high.
I understand the pull to put your complete trust in someone, and the fact that they have treated others make it likely that it's safe. When it's not working I'm sure you have pro metabolic tools and experience to draw from, to tweak the intervention to fit your body, instead of following the doses.
I'm still doing my own thing: About 1 tbsp every hour, 12-14 a day. I am waking up refreshed, no longer have severe brainfog, don't crash and my head is the most quiet it's been since I had mono. I need a lot of rest, but I am basically painfree (compared to before starting glucose) and the rest is wonderful. The difference in a month is truly night and day.
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@S-Holmes
Thank you for replying. Could you point me to anywhere where there are guidelines regarding dosage and protocol that would be applicable to me? Thank you.
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@gentlepotato Amazing results! Very happy for you. Thanks for the reminders and tips on checking metabolic markers along the way
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@FaBel Dr Stephens' books and podcasts are how I learned the process. There are links available at the beginning of this thread. If you want to get started right away, you take 25 grams (~2 Tbsp) of dextrose in water 4 times a day and gradually increase the dose. I take my first morning dose in coffee. And my lunch dose in tea. Afternoon and evening doses in sparkling water with lime juice. And it doesn't taste bad in plain water.
For some of us, it gets dicey, and Dr Stephens forewarns of that. I'm having a rough go now, but managing symptoms and pushing through. Suicidal depression isn't a good alternative and I want to keep that controlled forever, if possible. I'm in my second month so not even halfway "there" yet.
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@evan-hinkle Are you still on the protocol? How are you doing?
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Some may be wondering why a trained homeopath (me) is having health issues. Think of it this way. Your cells are little batteries and they can be recharged many times throughout life with proper therapies. Well selected homeopathic remedies (pure energy) WILL recharge our cells...until they can no longer be energized. (No one lives forever.) I've tried MANY therapies to try and bring those cells back to full capacity. (Homeopathy worked amazingly well for me for 30 years. It still works really well for my ridiculously resilient husband.) Many other modalities helped me a little, but none to a significant degree. So NOW what? Enter glucose. I'm hoping glucose therapy has been the missing piece, but only time will tell. So far it seems promising.
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@S-Holmes said:
Well selected homeopathic remedies (pure energy) WILL recharge our cells...until they can no longer be energized.
It is being said that CDS, sodium chlorite, peroxide is often a prerequisite for homeopathy to work (again). To a substantial part this ought to be due to a reduced overall pathogen burden. To another due to oxidation of toxins and waste. I am now thinking that, as oxygen donors, they must also benefit OXPHOS and thereby every cellular and organ function provided there's enough glucose substrate? ClO2 or peroxide may then complement the glucose loading?
I am thinking that a lot of the supplements and supposed remedies I had been taking over the years were all in wain. Especially, I am thinking many (the potentially most beneficial of them) exacerbated the glucose deficiency dilemma. Consequently, I am thinking that now that I am providing sufficient glucose, I may need to rewind and redo/retry all the "good" supplements because only now they become both able to be used and necessary as cofactors for every cellular and organ function.
I a way, this would mean back to square one and a reevaluation of all supplements and remedies I know since long ago and which I had previously used and discarded. -
@CrumblingCookie Interesting. Back when I first became very ill with CFS, I had completed a series of hydrogen peroxide IV's and immediately afterward found homeopathy. I believe it saved my life. Now I'm thinking how Providential that may have been that I did the H202 first.
If a heavy parasite load also inhibits homeopathic medicines, doing a parasite cleanse might also be in order. I take Fenbendazole regularly and try to take homeopathic Cina on the full moon when parasites are on the move.
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On a potential side quest with chlorine dioxide, sodium chlorite, hydrogen peroxide:
In the results of his 1986 review on "The Therapeutic Use of Intravenous Hydrogen Peroxide", a therapeutic concept which is said to be equal in effect to the use of hyperbaric oxygen chambers, Dr Charles Farr described an "all-or-none" switching to a metabolic rate at about twice the baseline level brought about by the increased oxygenation. I found this interesting, because an increase of the metabolic rate, although reliably sustained over the long-term, is, after all, what I'm after with the glucose protocol.
He wrote that this was independent of using a 5% dextrose solution along with it or not.I believe the latter finding does not hold true over the medium or long term and certainly not for everyone. That doubling of the metabolic rate must be fed somehow.
Surely, a shift from anaerobic to more aerobic metabolism bears a huge energy potential in the amount of ATP produced from the same amount of substrate and this could be all it takes for some. But what when tissue and liver glycogen already are or become depleted?
I don't know about the raise in efficiency or level of beta-oxidation of fatty acids from oxidative therapy. I certainly know, however, that excessive or extended oxidative therapies become very exhaustive and are not crucially alleviated by the proposed repleting of antioxidants.
Hence, I am now thinking that a huge stumbling block in any oxidative therapy will be stress and catabolism by lack of energy.Cue in the dextrose!
Given that OXPHOS needs glucose and oxygen as substrates, increasing both ought to complement each other reciprocally. More oxygenation may enhance the efficiency already of small serving sizes of dextrose. Or perhaps more oxygenation may ultimately also increase/accelerate the utilisation of greater amounts of dextrose.Do you people think this to be a meaningless oversimplification?
Or is such oversimplification right spot-on since we are already engaging in the almost ludicrously simple needs for glucose and its significant results?To me, the fact that @GlucoseOrBust was recommended by DS to try methylene blue twice a day (in absurdely high amounts, imo) seems to tap right into this context of providing more oxygenation deep down into the tissues along with providing the glucose.
However, I deem methylene blue to be a derivation too cumbersome and too alienated of the in overall more fundamental sources for circulatory and tissue oxygen.
Unless DS purposefully intended to put him into MAO-blocking for the misled goal of raising adrenaline, noradrenaline, serotonin. Which can be greatly helpful for some, but shifts to adrenergic hormone signalling and is kind of a shot in the foot, leg, guts and brain, metabolically.
@GlucoseOrBust Did he explain to you why MB other than by "He heard from someone he has trained that their clients were seeing benefits with combining MB with dextrose. It seems to show some glucose uptake benefits in some studies"? -
@CrumblingCookie Have you come across any information about ozone IV's being helpful? I've been thinking about giving that a try as adjunct to the glucose.
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For what it's worth, Stephens talks about glucose, oxygen, and water being the three critical factors of energy metabolism. I know it's not groundbreaking science, but maybe a good reminder as to how healing could be more simple if we look at the macro picture first. Anyway, he says that oxygen and water optimization are easier to diagnose as we get clearer signals from the body that we are deficient (air hunger and thirst to put it simply). I think this is an oversimplification, as studying things like Buyteyko breathing shows that air hunger is a subjective experience based on an individuals tolerance to CO2 build up in the lungs and blood. Buteyko helps to reset this air hunger set point to allow greater CO2 in the blood, which paradoxically allows MORE oxygen to be taken up by the cells. Also, it seems that chronic dehydration without a persistent thirst signal is also quite common, at least with regards to lab biomarkers indicating such.
Dr. Stephens is clearly onto something with dextrose in large-ish doses with regards to healing. I think he has seen countless miracles with it, but has put together a kind of patchwork theory on how it works after the fact. I think the danger in this is that there are still people with whom large doses of dextrose are not helping after many weeks, and the answer to why it isn't working probably isn't as simple as more dextrose or time is needed. For me, I've gone as high as 24 Tbsp in one dose and I've been on the protocol now for 7 weeks. I think I have explored a reasonable range regarding both dosage and time needed to at least see marginal benefits. I think it would be a safer for him to assume that there is a minority of people that will either respond slowly (or possibly not at all) to pure dextrose loading. Keeping it simple is good and I think the right path. Perhaps this is a bit too simple, however.
I think it's once people have explored high dosing and have given it a month or more that Stephens has lost most of his patients (the 15-20% or so he's mentioned that don't end up sticking to the program. Some people give up, because they are in a cycle of trying one thing after the other out of desperation. I've definitely been there, but not with this one I don't think. I think there has to be another factor that could be limiting this glucose uptake or glucose metabolism in the brain, especially for the most severe cases. Proper oxygenation seems like as good of a candidate as any. I like the idea of experimenting with ozone. I have done ozone suppositories in the past with little benefit, but I wonder if combining them with dextrose could be beneficial? This combined with low dose MB (I've taken the dosage down to 3mg x2 per day) could be helpful. Any thoughts?
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@GlucoseOrBust Were the ozone suppositories produced at home or under a doctor's supervision?
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@S-Holmes I've had one or two ozone IVs. I can't remember the ozone rate/device setting and session length, nor the details of how exactly I reacted but only that its effects for me were rather contrary to what the GP and nurse expected and that they were a little irritated and closedmouthed about it.
The ozone IV made me quite stressed and exhausted, physically. I had it stopped five minutes early and struggled to walk up a staircase afterwards and must have looked accordingly because a stranger stopped to ask if I'm alright and insisted to help me and eventually stood next to me awkwardly long until she was somewhat sure I won't be tumbling down.I've done a few chlorine dioxide IVs at 120ppm in Ringer lactate solution. I think that's the maximal practical concentration. I also know that lactate's not ideal and anti-metabolic, but it retains ClO2 in solution. That felt really good and warming and clearing my head like a fresh breeze should do.
That was at least a year before my ozone IV experience, though. So I might have been not yet as deep in a hole when I tried the ClO2 IV as when I tried the ozone IV. But the oxidative potentials also differ with +2.03V for O3 and a much milder +1.57V for ClO2 [H2O2 is +1.76V, O2 (and therefore H2O2 after catalase enzyme interaction) is +1.2-1.4V].
IIRC I had tried 240ppm but stopped it already after a few minutes because of venous irritation.
I had also tried subcutaneous infusion, known as hypodermoclysis. That didn't pan out for me at all as it simply didn't disperse but caused a swelling of half a tennis ball until I stopped. I suspect the max. ppm for hypodermoclysis is even lower. Also, I'm no professional with only little experience on myself (one-handed, of course, in the case of IVs).
Dr. Harmut Fischer (Chemist in Germany) spoke of 120ppm ClO2 in Ringer's.
Dr. Noel Rodriguez (GP, theologist in Guatemala) spoke of 30ppm ClO2 IVs at 40 drops/min and even at that low end issued a warning to diabetics about ClO2 IV lowering BG by a lot and that the insuline dosing may need to be set to half or even only a third of the usual. That's quite a clue for the glucose context.