Glucose loading cures everything?
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You wrote "I'm hoping he can answer questions about how glucose can be processed by the brain if the krebs cycle is interrupted by the itaconate shunt (if it's even a proven theory)."
My point is that if the Itaconate shunt hypothesis is the explanation the issue was never that the brain cannot process glucose (I'm not sure the brain does*); it just didn't have enough ATP for all the jobs it does.
*Edit: separate from the mitochondria that is.
But definitely ask him how the brain processes glucose!
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@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
You wrote "I'm hoping he can answer questions about how glucose can be processed by the brain if the krebs cycle is interrupted by the itaconate shunt (if it's even a proven theory)."
My point is that if the Itaconate shunt hypothesis is the explanation the issue was never that the brain cannot process glucose (I'm not sure the brain does); it just didn't have enough ATP for all the jobs it does.
These processes take place in all mitochondria. The brain, being living tissue, has mitochondria. This is why I'm stumped. If this shunt process causes the mitochondria in the body and brain (to varying extents) to use mostly protein to make ATP, then my question to him is how does flooding the brain with glucose change these chemical processes. I don't think he will have the answer, but I will ask him.
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@gentlepotato said:
Stephen's explanation is the amount of glucose limiting events, but (without going in to my family histories and ancestry in to great of a detail) I have generations of severe glucose limitation in my genes
I would like to mark this as a side quest and contribute that immune cells are the continually most energy craving type besides nerve cells. Nevertheless it would ultimately affect all kinds of tissues and cells to have significant shortcomings in cellular energy usage over the long term. [In any kind of starvation or fasting, immunity drops very quickly (which can be palliative and life-saving by limiting the rate of immunological damage in the short term)].
So what you mentioned about (epi) -genetic effects, potentially trans-generationally, and the very real occurrences of trans-generational trauma by physical abuse, war crimes, starvations and the like may very well be perpetuated not only by the original glucose-limiting shunts but as well by the opportunistic changes of the intrinsic intracellular pathogen load, i.e. the so-called metagenome, which is being passed-down from parents to child and can be much exacerbated by adverse events "Metagenomics Of The Human Body", findings from the Human Genome Project.@S-Holmes and @gentlepotato
I have not read up on itaconate yet because I'm having too much on my plate rn. So I need to leave this puzzling-together to you for now and am looking forward to your further findings.What I have tried and can report back on:
Taurine: I had taken 700mgs of taurine to every dextrose serving. It made me more tired/sleepy/groggy like previously when I had increased dextrose. Also, I was craving more dextrose and instead of 80-90gs I was using 90-100gs at a time. So I got the confirmatory impression that taurine definitely enhances glucose uptake.
Hydrogen Peroxide: This can be good news to everyone and particularly to those who've been gaining weight with dextrose. Drinking 2ml of 3% H202 (equivalent to about 3 drops of 35% H202) in half a glass of pure water several times a day increased my warmth, made me a little less hungry, made me crave less dextrose (back down to pretty much 80gs at a time) and looks like it's very subtly but steadily reducing my weight. It provides more oxygen to everywhere, but the H202 itself also acts immunostimulatively, tissue pH balancing, peroxidising many toxins and hydrocarbons and it's actually a cofactor in many enzymatic pathways. E.g. the peroxisomes in almost all cells use and produce H202 and they are where fatty acid oxidation for non-glucose energy creation takes place.
I'm greatly interested in how supplemental H202 works for others who do the glucose protocol.
It may fit in well and make for a holistic approach as an integral complement to glucose. And it's just as stupendously basic and essential which makes me like it a lot.
I highly recommend everyone to read the book "The Truth about Hydrogen Peroxide".
The guy who wrote it has put a lot of effort into it with hopes and aspirations no lesser than those of Dr. Stephens. -
Hydrogen Peroxide: This can be good news to everyone and particularly to those who've been gaining weight with dextrose. Drinking 2ml of 3% H202 (equivalent to about 3 drops of 35% H202) in half a glass of pure water several times a day increased my warmth, made me a little less hungry, made me crave less dextrose (back down to pretty much 80gs at a time) and looks like it's very subtly but steadily reducing my weight. It provides more oxygen to everywhere, but the H202 itself also acts immunostimulatively, tissue pH balancing, peroxidising many toxins and hydrocarbons and it's actually a cofactor in many enzymatic pathways. E.g. the peroxisomes in almost all cells use and produce H202 and they are where fatty acid oxidation for non-glucose energy creation takes place.
I'm greatly interested in how supplemental H202 works for others who do the glucose protocol.
It may fit in well and make for a holistic approach as an integral complement to glucose. And it's just as stupendously basic and essential which makes me like it a lot.
I highly recommend everyone to read the book "The Truth about Hydrogen Peroxide".
The guy who wrote it has put a lot of effort into it with hopes and aspirations no lesser than those of Dr. Stephens.I so wish I could take hydrogen peroxide. I have 3 bottles of 35% food grade in my fridge, but taking it orally just nauseates me terribly, so using it topically (diluted of course).
I had read that taurine burns through glucose quickly. I don't know if this is good or bad, so I use it sparingly.
Thanks for the good discussion friends. This fellow lab rat appreciates you!
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@S-Holmes said in [Glucose loading cures everything?](/
These processes take place in all mitochondria. The brain, being living tissue, has mitochondria. This is why I'm stumped. If this shunt process causes the mitochondria in the body and brain (to varying extents) to use mostly protein to make ATP, then my question to him is how does flooding the brain with glucose change these chemical processes. I don't think he will have the answer, but I will ask him.
It seems like you're looking for a way to incorporate his explanation into the biology. I haven't heard him talk about the Itaconate shunt or the GABA shunt, he isn't speaking about the biology of it all. What does it even mean to "flood the brain with glucose"?
The "down regulation" of glucose utilization is well known for people researching neurological disorders, yet isn't known for a lot of people in medicine. It's new stuff. And those who are working on it don't understand this completely yet, they are at a hypothesis stage. So we can hypothesize, but we may not get the answer from anyone.
I think we are closer to understanding it if we bridge Peat's wisdom with the knowledge of the Itaconate shunt. I'm interested in exploring that, but at this point I think Dr. Stephens metaphors about the mechanism are more confusing than helpful.
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@S-Holmes said:
I so wish I could take hydrogen peroxide. I have 3 bottles of 35% food grade in my fridge, but taking it orally just nauseates me terribly, so using it topically (diluted of course).
I'm wondering whether this is because you are so full of toxins (for some odd reasons there is said to be no Herxheimer from H202) or because it yielded such a metabolic boost in you that it sank your glucose when you had tried it in the past? How's 1 drop 35% but regularly?
@S-Holmes said:
Thanks for the good discussion friends. This fellow lab rat appreciates you!
+1 and thank you too!
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@gentlepotato And the hating on sugar that permeates our culture (especially in alternative health people) certainly won't help us work toward solving this mystery. Dr. Stephens, in spite of the metaphors, may be way ahead of the curve on this. As for me, I know I won't rest until I find a good scientific explanation.
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@CrumblingCookie TBH, I seem to do better on sodium acetate. It raises Co2 levels which will trigger a release of oxygen (from hemoglobin). So just another way to obtain the same (or similar) outcome. At least as I understand it. And no nausea.
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I asked Dr Stephens his thoughts regarding mitochondria in the brain being unable to use glucose. He remains staunchly and confidently unwavering in his position that glucose will heal the brain, and everything else as well. I told him I was going to keep searching for the science to support his therapy and he was fine with that, of course.
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What brand is everyone using?
Finished my Nutricost tub. After reading people’s poor experience with certain brands I’m now questioning my experience. What I thought was sensitivity to glucose may have been a quality control issue? Was never able to go above 3tbsp.
Got very good mental effects from it, but the on/off bloating and nausea limited enjoyment. Experiment is on hold for now.
I guess the name of the game is buy different brands until you find one that agrees with you. Great lol.
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@Jaffe said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
What brand is everyone using?
Finished my Nutricost tub. After reading people’s poor experience with certain brands I’m now questioning my experience. What I thought was sensitivity to glucose may have been a quality control issue? Was never able to go above 3tbsp.
Got very good mental effects from it, but the on/off bloating and nausea limited enjoyment. Experiment is on hold for now.
I guess the name of the game is buy different brands until you find one that agrees with you. Great lol.
I still had bad nausea and the worst heartburn I've ever had (for about a week) on the higher quality brands. I pushed through but it wasn't fun. (Sodium bicarb helped with the heartburn.) They're both MUCH better now so I think it may have been a herx reaction (in my case). I'm at 6 Tbsps per bolus now.
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@gentlepotato And the hating on sugar that permeates our culture (especially in alternative health people) certainly won't help us work toward solving this mystery. Dr. Stephens, in spite of the metaphors, may be way ahead of the curve on this. As for me, I know I won't rest until I find a good scientific explanation.
In the One of one's episode Dr. Stephens agreed with the host that white sugar is "bad sugar", so I don't think he's ahead of the curve on that one. Have any of you told him about Ray Peat or the pro metabolic principles? I'd be curious to hear how he responds to Peat's thoughts.
@Jaffe
I'm using a brand called Urtegaarden. It's Danish, and I live in Europe, not sure if it's available on other continents. It's great quality from what I can tell, but that said, when I did high doses I was also nauseous. When I tried 3 tbsp at once I also got very nauseous, perhaps because my BG spiked. So I would think the doses are making people nauseous, rather than the brand. -
I watched that one too and I believe what he meant was it isn't helpful in the context of the brain healing therapy that uses pure glucose (sucrose won't work), but not that sugar is bad in general. I've mentioned Dr Peat to him in our consultations and we've discussed how the prevailing anti-sugar sentiment is a hindrance to healing.
He says that glucose therapy isn't always smooth sailing. I hope my friends here won't give up too soon!
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@evan-hinkle cant the same thing be achieved by eating any form of starch or sugar regularly? provided digestion handles it. like why wouldnt this work with honey or juice? what's special about glucose?
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@Bling5
Starches need way more digestive power and functioning which one may have lost below a point that is needed. The full reasoning of why starches don't work nearly as well lie, however, still in the mist.
All what is known and said is that at some point (about 6 months in or later, or gradually sooner), eating starches and eating generally enough becomes self-sufficient again.
So nobody's planning to continue drinking glucose until the end of her or his life, yet.
Sugar=Sucrose/Glucose-Fructose is not the same at all.
Honey (Glucose, Fructose, +stuff) is not the same either and the higher the fructose content of the type of honey the worse it is. I had eaten kilograms of honey before doing glucose. As in a lb jar per day, up to half a jar at a time. I had done that because it sort of kept me afloat but at the same time the fructose was super stressful and counteracting. -
Whew! A couple of emotional days! OMG. I went ahead and increased to 7 Tbsps per bolus today. I needed a little encouragement so had a short appointment with Dr Stephens. I've also been struggling with nausea and gerd. One important thing he mentioned was that as our brain prioritizes healing it seems the GI tract is at the end of the list. But I'm sleeping like a baby with only glucose in a little choc milk at bedtime...no sleep aid required. Pressing on!
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@S-Holmes
Good news! So you just pushed past your previous subjective nausea thresold?Here's the concept of my dextrose troubleshooting guide with no claim to universal validity:
Situation: Can't increase serving size because of nausea or GI upset or terrible taste Solution: • Impure production batch/brand of dextrose. Switch to other brand. • More time needed at the previous serving size and smaller increments because of a (still) very low rate of glucose utilization. • Improve cellular glucose uptake: Potassium, chloride, taurine. • Just push past and substantially increase the serving size because it's normal to have your upper bowels rearranged in the beginning as they gradually get access to glucose and start to function. Situation: Dextrose not working sufficiently with cravings for more dextrose right after a serving. Solution: • Improve glucose utilization (citric acid cycle): * Add thiamin +-10mg and pyridoxin 0.5-1mg, biotin +-50mcg, niacin(amide) +-10mg and riboflavin +-4mg. * Add magnesium if your levels are known to be low becaus lack of Mg can be a limiting cofactor for shifting the electrons in the citric acid cycle. Situation: Dextrose not working sufficiently with servings sizes already very high and no cravings for more dextrose. Solution: • Do not undereat. Maintain a daily diet of basic foods for a sane amount of macro- (protein, calcium) and micronutrients. • Improve tissue and/or cellular oxygenation: * (Light exercise, light walking in fresh air) * (Lymphatic massage) * (Vibration plate) * Use H202: Orally every day. Intravenously. Baths. Any one adaptation can raise the need for one of the other. -
@CrumblingCookie Looks good! The nausea seems to be fading away and my appetite has recovered.
Dr Stephens said to take the entire dose within 30 minutes so I try to do that. I still need it diluted to more than 1 oz of liquid per tbsp, but I figure it's best to get it down any way I can than not at all.
My husband is on it too (4 tbsps) and doing well. His mood swings are better controlled. I can tell when he is low on glucose, which is good since unlike myself he really can't, so when I notice that the grumpy, irritable man is back in the room I ask how long since his last dose. His answer is always "it's time for another." Lol
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I told a friend about Dr Stephens and she has asked him to speak at her health seminar next month. She has a donkey dairy and provides milk to kids with autism. Looking forward to seeing him in person!
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Is anyone still following this thread? If not I won't spend more time on it. It seems helpful discussion has dwindled. It's ok. It happens. Just want to make the best use of my time.