@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

How often and for how long do you go outside per week when you say you are 95-99.9% housebound?

I rarely do, and when I do it's for a very short walk. Luckily I have a balcony which functions as an extra room when the weather allows it. I spend most of my time outside for most of the warmer half year, and with the windows and doors wide open.

For comparison, when I had the capacity for it, before I had covid again a couple of years ago, I tried all the typical advice regarding sunlight and grounding. I also spent a lot of time outdoors before I became housebound, and neither grounding or early sunlight seemed to be supportive in ways they were "supposed to". I've had some of my worst PEM after spending time in nature, which was extra difficult because I didn't know what was going on back then.

I found that glucose had much more effect on my circadian rhythm than sunlight early in the morning ever had. I also feel much more grounded now, despite being unable to leave the house much still.

It will be interesting to see what happens when spring comes though. Maybe those interventions can be supportive now that something else appears to have clicked into place.

@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

My diet is poor. Definitely too little protein. Are you having any specific thoughts?

I’ll share my experience, because it seems that eating well and enough is very important for me.

I’ve just crossed the 6 month mark, and I’m not fully healed at all, but I’ve never followed the protocol. I’ve been using glucose as a Peat-ish tool, and I think it’s a game changer for my body.

For context:
I’ve had undiagnosed ME/CFS since 2006. The first time it was mentioned was in 2020, after I got a lot worse from covid, and I got diagnosed in 2022.

I’ve been between 95% and 99,9% housebound since March 2020. I’ve been very isolated by my symptoms, and have rarely had days where I don’t crash. I found RP in April 2021 and saw benefits fast: It helped my sleep, and eventually a lot of other things. Summer of 2022 I was a little bit less fatigued (95% housebound and the most social I’ve been), but later that fall I contracted covid again, and I never recovered back to the baseline I had before that.

In May and June last year I was experiencing the worst PEM (activity induced increase in symptoms) I’ve ever had. I’ve planned my food around activity, but no matter how much I ate adrenaline was non stop for days, which happened a few times with fairly normal activity (although it was way outside my normal range).

So that’s where I was before glucose.

Here are the things that got worse after started glucose:

• Horrendous tinnitus: I’ve probably had tinnitus before, but this is next level. I think it was worsened by running out of vitamin K2, and it’s now mostly better, but still have some moments and stretches where it’s wild. I think it has to do with intracellular calcium, and that makes sense for ME/CFS as well. Fingers crossed it will recalibrate.

• My sleep has been worse since late September: My sleep has been mostly very good since 2021. It was amazing in July and August, because I was finally tired at night, and in September it was the best I can remember.

I’m not sure what caused it to change, but here are some thoughts: 1) I was woken up twice in less than two weeks by the fire department and police. I live in a very quiet neighbourhood and have never experienced something like that before. Turned out to be nothing, but might have played a part in my hearing becoming more sensitive. 2) the tinnitus issue started around this time. 3) I might have eaten less protein than I need.

The sleep was really awful for about a month, then not great, then some good and some bad nights. Now I have more really good nights, and I have started waking up a little rested again in the last few weeks, which I consider a good sign. Crossing my fingers it’s moving in the right direction. I’m not sure if any of my emotional or cognitive interventions of 1) were helpful, but as I’ve upped my protein and started taking K2 again I’ve seen improvements.

• Very dry skin on my hands: I’ve had issues with it sometimes, but it’s usually not one of my most prominent symptoms (as long as I don’t bake every day - had to quit my original education as a baker and confectionary). It got better in December, but still has not fully healed.

• Not sure this needs a point, but before I started waking up a little rested at the start of the year I was very exhausted for a few weeks. Not very surprising really, with my starting point, and five months of more of less “acute reinfections" and immune responses. Cognitively I was very exhausted, so I haven’t been able to update here.

Immune reactions and benefits
I’ve also continued to have immun reactions, but I don’t think that’s negative - even though it’s been exhausting. I've had immune responses that have indicated 2-4 rounds of shingles, a lung infection, bronchitis, overlapping symptoms of infections in the lungs/bronchial tubes/throat and sinus several times, what I assume is an immune response to infection in the brain (which might also be an explanation for the tinnitus and sensitive hearing). I’ve also felt a mouth sore coming, but the body has won all of these battles, and like the shingles the mouth sore didn’t break out fully, and healed abnormally fast.

I still have some waves of this, but mostly lasts an hour or so, and happens in the evening or at night. I might have another round of chest infection starting now as well.

And despite all these infections/immun reactions and the terrible sleep, I have more energy than I did before the summer. For a few weeks, I think it was in November/December, I was able to go for more walks and increase how many steps gradually. Not far, but a lot longer than I’ve been able to for a long time. I’m usually better in the warmer months and it’s winter here now, so I am curious how my body will react to spring this year.

It seems very clear that my adaptive immune system has been activated, and in my glucose + Itaconate shunt hypothesis that makes perfect sense. My hope is that the first month was a sort of taste test of how I will start to feel when it's not activated all the time. I think that after a month of consistent use pathogens also got more energy and started reactivating, and so the immune system had to do some maintenance.

Wounds I’ve had, that have not healed for years, have started healing, and my hair is growing out a lot thicker. Nails are stronger, and I think I have less grey hair as well (daily oyster powder seems to have affected that before glucose too though).

I crash a lot less, and have more time for all the small parts of my day. I’ve been able to meditate more, knit more, and rarely feel that a day just rushes past me - which was most days before glucose. So I’m hopeful!

The glucose and the food
I’ve not added anything else except for glucose, because simplicity is very important for many people with ME/CFS, so I’ve wanted to see how far it can get me. (People with ME/CFS appear to have trouble breaking down carbs.)

I've been taking a tbsp every hour approximately, so 12-14 tbsp a day. (Also did a bit more for a few weeks, because I wanted to see what happened, especially with the sideeffects above, but it didn’t help any of the issues. I think consistency is more important than quantity.)

I’ve been checking my blood glucose, and it’s not increased. I checked twice a day (morning and two hours after a meal, one after glucose) until some time in the fall, and then my GP and I decided I could test twice once a week. The HbA1c (long term blood glucose) is also within range; nothings changed.

At 12-14 tbsp a day I have around 140 grams of glucose/dextrose a day. I eat 2500-2700 calories a day, 60%+ carbs, and I've been trying different ratios, but now I’m at around 20% protein and 16-18% fat.

My sense is it's been very important to eat enough food overall, and enough nutrient dense foods, when taking large quantities of glucose. I think i’ve said this before, but simple carbs with very little nutrients are efficient fuel, and that means the system will work fast, and that means one can become deficient faster, if one doesn’t have enought nutrient dense food.

I've been aware of that since I started in July, but slacked a bit and landed around 100 grams for a while. I've upped it to 120+ recently, and it seems to have helped my sleep.

I’ve been tracking with Cronometer every day. I’ve not used it consistently before, but I tend to not eat enough if I don’t track. I’ve lost weight too btw, while being housebound and eating 2500+ calories. I’m not sure if it’s because something is off in my body (I do have a very severe illness), or if its just a sign of my metabolic health getting better.

I’ll try to share some more musings soon about the more metabolic side of all this. Now for some more glucose!

@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

I likely have EB or GB. I haven't been tested because what's the point? They're both autoimmune conditions

I’m not sure what EB og GB is, but EBV is epstein barr virus, so a virus, not an autoimmune condition. I’m not sure it there is benefit to testing other than validation and perhaps picking herbs.

@S-Holmes sorry to hear you got covid again. One can take a long time to recover after it, so you might see a clearing after a while, but very wise to do extreme rest for now. I think it's smart to approach covid the way one would mono, so take it easy for at least three months. Hope you get better soon!

Do you ever test for EBV? It's one of the virus' that can reacivate after covid, and if it has you might benefit from some herbs.

I'm still just doing glucose, because I want to keep it simple, but if I am gonna add something at some point olive leaf extract is high of my list. Often mentioned for EBV.

@CrumblingCookie Thanks for sharing! Great you're seeing so much benefit, especially with what sound like very little side effects?

May I ask how much you're eating, and your macros?

@Kilgore welcome!

Thanks for the nudge, I've been meaning to share a bit. I'll try to soon, but I'm still having reactivations and immune responses - which I think is positive, but it's quite exhausting.

Is there anything in particular you'd like to know?

@Sippy
Short answer: Yes, i think it can be helpful.

Longer musing: I think people who are neurodivergent and already have issues with neurotransmitters are at higher risk for trouble with the Itaconate shunt, because it causes the GABA shunt, which leads to neurotransmitters being used for ATP instead of what they're supposed to be used for.

There's also a strange phenomenon with autism where people have seen symptoms disappear when they have a fever. If symptoms disappear when the Itaconate shunt is not actived (the fever may indicate the adaptive immune system is activated), maybe debilitating autism is "just" another manifestation (one of many) of the Itaconate shunt (the innate immune system not letting the adaptive immune system do it's job).

(Edit: Actually not sure that a fever may indicate the adaptive immune system is activated; I just very rarely have a fever since my Itaconate shunt issues started - and on the rare occasion I have a fever I've experienced certain symptoms get better. Here's an article about the phenomenon: https://news.mit.edu/2024/understanding-why-autism-symptoms-sometimes-improve-amid-fever-0523)

Hope they can find some relief, it sounds challenging.

@sharko I don't think anyone is hurt, but we're at least a few people voicing that the vibe isn't helpful or okay. There's a difference between challenging someone's hypothesis, and judging what logic they're allowed to follow, and what is serious and not serious. I made my point to say you come across as judgemental; some contemplation about how you can communicate differently might be necessary if you want to come across in a different way.

@sharko said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

And, to say that for 20 years you did everything according to Ray Peat and nothing worked the way this protocol works, is a bit of an understatement, when in practice you simply didn't study the science he revealed to us in enough depth.

This, to me, is very unnecessary and an example of some shit communication. It's a judgemental take, that lacks compassion and humility. It also lacks the acknowledgement that even if we study the science "in enough depth" that does not mean it will work for us.

Something that isn't talked about enough in the RP world is why so many women don't get better following these principles. I'm gonna guess you're a male? And if not, maybe you've been luckier than others, because as I've mentioned before I see so many women in RP world doing everything you can expect, and understand the RP approach very well, and still not get better. The last thing we need is people telling us stuff like your quote above.

@sharko said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

I saw your messages and the truth is that they made me feel that my message was not selective enough, but in my opinion these are the main messages that linked Ray's research to the story seriously.

In any case, I mainly referred to the preoccupation with asking the doctor's opinion and waiting for new "scientific" knowledge that he will publish, as if looking to replace a deep understanding of how the organism works, with a beautiful story that does not require much mental effort.

There is nothing new under the sun. As I wrote in the previous message, 100 years ago they already knew that the wasting disease could be treated with rice and he distilled it into glucose, but he invented unscientific theories that people are waiting to hear about, instead of understanding that the whole story here is a more accurate distillation of fuel that does not have to go through obstacles on the way and can work in a way Similar with white rice in most cases, like 100 years ago.

Today, apparently, glucose has a greater advantage than rice compared to the past, because there were no intestinal and other problems in the past like there are today.

And yet, this is only a small part of the complete puzzle of the metabolism.

Sure, everyone is this thread knows it's just a small part of the complete puzzle.

Anyone exploring or curious about exploring glucose are very welcome to hypothesize, share and ask questions; but if you are not and you're just here to lecture us on how to go about our explorations, and being selective about who you think are "seriously linking" glucose to RP, I'm for one not interested in your take.

Honestly comes across as weird to be so opinionated about it when you're not exploring glucose that you show up in this thread. I appreciate people sharing their explorations and hypothesis' even when they're different from mine, and when something doesn't resonate I just scroll past. I recommend you try it.

@sharko said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

It seems that you are mainly relying here on beautiful stories of a doctor who has no idea how the body works and mostly he was a little lucky to discover the wonders of sugar.

You went too far with the theories in my opinion.

I think it is nothing more than the difference between the combination with fructose can burden the liver and sucrose which is not sure what its breakdown can be in everyone's intestine.

Instead of trying to complete the logic of Ray Peat's research, you are dealing with a doctor who does not understand anything and looking for answers in irrelevant places.

Most of the answers to all your problems already exist in Ray Peat's research

You searched for a miracle cure and found yourself exerting yourself to the same extent as you would if you had invested in understanding bioenergetics in depth.

Experimenting and collecting evidence, cases and reactions is extremely important, but I would recommend continuing to try to build the logic according to the bioenergetic approach and not try to reinvent the wheel. It won't go well for sure...

Who are you addressing here? And have you read the entire thread? It's full of experimenting and collecting evidence, and building logic.

To me what you're saying comes across as unnecessarily rude. If you don't have an interest in glucose there are plenty other bioenergetic spaces where you can go play, where no one is talking about glucose.