@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

I have stopped glucose. I find it throws off my blood sugar game and didn’t see any benefit over 6 months, up to 320g per day for months.

I still think it can help others though.

Sorry to hear you didn't see any benefits. May I ask how it threw off your blood sugar game?

I'm quite surprised that Dr. Stephen's had such high success rate (perhaps disputable), because I think such high levels of glucose over time would create a lot of deficiencies for people who aren't mindful of eating nutrient dense food. I feel I have to be on it to avoid deficiencies, even taking approximately 150 grams of glucose a day, but I guess it could be that I'm already at risk for deficiencies with a metabolism that's been struggling for a long time.

@LetTheRedeemed said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

Has everyone forgotten Ray’s suggestion of eating sat fat with a sugary food to maximize timespan of stable blood sugar?

Do you have a link to him recommending saturated fat with sugary foods? I've seen him recommend fat with starch, but not with sugar.

I’d be interested in hearing the glucoose loaders try that one and see which one makes them feel better.

I don't know if I updated the thread about it, but I mentioned trying this, think it was in the fall. Without fat definitely feels better for me, at the moment.

For me it's all about exploring. RP's suggestions are not recommendations to follow like rules, they're helpful starting points for exploration.

Also aspirin with vit k to improve glucose oxidation

I appreciate a lot of Peat's work on glucose oxidation, but I find he was missing something, because so many of us haven't gotten better just follow his advice. I hope he would be curious about that, and would be curious about new research coming out.

Aspirin and vit K; sure, can be helpful interventions. But I think for me a huge part of the issue has been that my body has an imbalance in cortisol, and therefore isn't able to store much glucose.

Cortisol is needed for both glycogen -> glucose, and in the process of transforming non-carb sources to glucose. It makes me very vulnerable to low blood sugar, and the cascade of issues that follow when you are in an energy deficit routinely; HPA and HPT axis dysregulation, reactivating pathogens, toxins, hormones and heavy metals not being filtered out.

Can aspirin and vit K help? Maybe, but it's like bandages on a bullet wound. Supplementing glucose seem to actually bypass the issue/root cause, allows the immune system and liver to work better, and I hope this will lead to recovery.

@evan-hinkle said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

@jjk_learning no worries I didn’t take it as judgmental at all, (and as I’m sure you know, when the rubber meets the road all successful strategies are needed!).

I’ve become pretty good at sensing my children’s’ energetic needs, (it’s amazing since I changed my perspective on this 90+% of the parents I interact with starve their children STARVE them, and then force them into exhaustive exercise based activities, and wonder why little Johnny is such a naughty boy). I tend to front load activities now more than I react to tantrums. I know that it’s takes a great deal of energy for a three year old to walk from one end of the grocery store to the other, (but they don’t exactly communicate their energy needs do they?). So I keep gummies, and glucose tablets everywhere, (car, kitchen, grandparents house) and just make sure they’re topped up before a stressor. That said, yes, in a pinch it actually resolves tantrum behavior, (but a tantrum, I kid you not, is a sign you’re too late. You did not meet the child’s energy requirements).

I prefer glucose because it is fast acting. I know this from my own experiences. It stops negative behavior in its tracks. Glucose has taught me that all anti-social behavior is a function of low blood sugar. I am very convinced of this. I can’t help but think it’s why low carb diets are so pushed, (easier to divide and conquer the grumpy). Sugar has to be converted, and in a negative behavior situation, like I said, it’s already too late.

I don’t have any concerns about rewarding negative behavior for a few reasons. One, when we’re in a good place there’s no good and bad. With appropriate energy metabolism we act with honor and virtue, (we just do). So once they have glucose it only improves their entire biogenetic system. If they’re in a good place energetically there’s no logical incentive to waste energy on acting up to get more glucose. They use their energy productively toward joy and play. Not sure if that makes sense, but that’s been my experience. The other thing I notice is that when I find they “need” glucose, they’re more likely to refuse it, (stubborn behavior indicating that they have low blood sugar). I keep the glucose items in high places so they can’t self dose, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if I let them, they would just magically do so appropriately.

Ever since I found Ray’s work and applied it to parenting I knew that blood sugar was the reason for any misbehavior from a child, (and I see it everywhere). The next time a child that isn’t yours acts up see if you can’t find out when and what they last ate, (I mean don’t pry). If you’re aware of these factors you will find a child that has just been feed PUFA, or hasn’t been fed at all. Glucose will turn them around in an instant. I’ve seen it too many times to believe otherwise.

Oh, and this applies to children from 1-250 year of age, lol.

Hear hear! I love all your observations and agree 100%.

@GreekDemiGod said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

First time I took Dextrose (with salt as an intra workout), I had a migraine in the back of my head. Next day, I didn’t have negative effects, just slightly more energy perhaps.
Today, I felt quite sleepy after a dose. Bit got better in the afternoon.

Are these typical symptoms?

Welcome! Everyone is different, but my sense supplementing glucose allows the body to heal, and it will heal wounds we knew about and some we didn't. It can take time. I find asking my body what is happening and how I can support helpful. The body knows so much.

@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

@gentlepotato said:

I've been doing glucose daily since July and no doubt my intesties are healing, I'd even say healthy.

That's great! Can you tell us more about this, how and from what they are healing and how you notice significant differences? Or please refer to an earlier post of you in case I am struggling to remember.

I've shared about progress several times, so I don't know which post to refer you to, but when the metabolism heals the gut heals as well. I haven't stored glycogen, and so many processes need glucose. When I'm supplementing it allows everything to work, and I think in time the liver will store glycogen again as well, and then I don't need to supplement.

What are your sources here?

-2c. glucose dieting is the worst for healing intestinal issues as, in total contrast, it inhibits HMGCS2 even significantly more instead of helping this much needed recovery pathway.
-2cc. going by this to me new info I really shot myself in the guts, metaphorically, by hoping for relief and recovery through glucose. Since my health issues start or end in the guts it now appears I've put the cart before the horse. Insert an array of swear words here. Damn!

I took up those info on glucose//butyrate effects from this 2019 study. It's in mice but there are references to findings in humans and mammals generally:
Ketone Body Signaling Mediates Intestinal Stem Cell Homeostasis and Adaptation to Diet

This one's not a bad review from 2010:
From the gut to the peripheral tissues: the multiple effects of butyrate. Interestingly, hepatocytes take up butyrate through a liver-specific organic anion transporter 7, OAT7 (SLC22A9), in exchange for sulfate-conjugated xenobiotics and steroid hormones (i.e. efflux of estron-sulphate or DHEA-S). Which should be "peaty", no?

There must be some wise and healthy way to reconcile or combine the whole SCFAs effects with those from glucose. Maybe by taking frequent "low" <60grs doses of glucose like you do for a full gastric/duodenal uptake without disturbing the metabolic homeostasis of lower GI parts. And take no glucose but exogenous butyrates in the evening/before the nighttime stretch in order to feed and induce ketogenic metabolism, circadian leukocyte functions and ISC renewal.
I now view the whole discussions about "sterile guts" and the microbiome in a newly simplified light: Ideally, the GI fermentation would provide a steady supply of SCFAs not only to the gut itself but with a surplus to the human organism as a whole, thereby increasing and maintaining resilience by complementing the energy requirements of the latter and relieving its otherwise dominating reliance on stress-induced ketosis and anaerobic glycolysis to span across times of carbohydrate/glucose fasting.

I don't trust any source that claims "glucose dieting is the worst for healing intestinal issues".

I eat very little fiber, and get butyrate from dairy. I don't consider not eating carbs late in the day to induce ketogenic metabolism "Peaty", most of all because I think if your body is resting at night, it taps into fat for fuel, no force needed. Peat was all about nourishing the body so it works the way it should. I'm not sure why you feel the need to be wise for the body? It's very wise on its own.

@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

@S-Holmes
How much of the BHB salts do you take per day?

By what I've coped to read up on BHB:

1. it doesn't smell as butyric acid does. It can therefore be used as loose powder.
2. it shares many benefits with butyric acid, mostly the general HDAC-inhibition which is super super crucial for maintaining intestinal stem cell renewal to thwart lasting damages from chemical, toxic, irradation treatments.
   -2b. the removal of inhibitions for the mitochondrial enzyme hydroxymethylglutaryl CoA synthase HMGCS(2) is decisive for that stem cell renewal.
   -2c. glucose dieting is the worst for healing intestinal issues as, in total contrast, it inhibits HMGCS2 even significantly more instead of helping this much needed recovery pathway.
   -2cc. going by this to me new info I really shot myself in the guts, metaphorically, by hoping for relief and recovery through glucose. Since my health issues start or end in the guts it now appears I've put the cart before the horse. Insert an array of swear words here. Damn!
3. some intestinal bacteria can even use their β-hydroxybutyrate dehydrogenase to convert it to butyric acid.
   -3b. it's a substrate for the fragile lactobacilli to form beneficial biofilms (purportedly very rare) so they can maintain their colonisation and barrier assistance
4. inulin (prebiotic) converts mostly to butyrate instead of acetate or proprionate. So the L.reuteri yoghurt making benefits surely rely a lot on the generously added inulin as a distinctly L.-reuteri-independent treatment.

I'm going to buy potassium-BHB and eat that as high as my potassium requirements allow. I'll aim for 20g a day whereof it's 5g potassium.

What are your sources here? I've been doing glucose daily since July and no doubt my intesties are healing, I'd even say healthy.

I also did a wee search to learn what Ray Peat might think about BHB, and I found this thread on the old forum, where Georgi is quoted saying it's not recommended.

I agree calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium are very important. I salt generously, supplement some magnesium, and get the rest through my diet, as long as I eat lots of nutrient dense foods.

@S-Holmes what's the source in the last post about glucose and candida? I don't know much about candida, but is it overgrowth in the digestive tract? I'd say the main way to avoid that is motility and avoiding deficiencies.

Did you have high blood sugar? I've tested daily for months and then twice weekly. Never had high blood sugar, and my long term blood glucose is also not elevated, so glucose does not equal high blood sugar.

The way I see it the glucose spread out is a tool for avoiding low blood sugar (amongst other things).

@S-Holmes May I ask how much were you eating while doing the high doses of glucose? Calories and macros?

I've been having more than 2500 the whole time, at only 12-15 tbsp. Right now I'm between 2500 and 2900, macros 20ish day and protein (120-130 grams of protein) and 60+ carbs. I'm loosing weight.

So my thinking is that higher amounts of glucose, especially in a ratio to lower amounts of nutrient dense foods, will deplete your stores of nutrients fast, and with lower calories you'll get less nutrition in. It's not the glucose that's the issue, it's the ratio.

What the glucose is likely doing is giving the immune system enough fuel to avoid an Itaconate shunt. That means a higher demand for energy. This is in part why I've been against the enormous doses of glucose, because that means you need much more overall food - and that seems to have been a bad match, because some where getting nausea and stomach upset from the massive amounts of glucose.

I'm glad you're still taking it, and I think consistency in smaller doses is better. Hope it gives the relief you're looking for!

Anyone here still doing glucose, or is it just me? I'm doing 14-15 tbsp a day and still think my adaptive immune system is doing "pending admin". I also think I understand not of why it's working.

The pending admin now seem to be allergies. I've realized I have a very severe nickel allergy - and that nickel can trigger innate immunity and activate the Itaconate shunt. It's a big puzzle piece for me. The rabbit hole of systemic nickel allergy is deep and quite overwhelming still, but I've realized pro metabolic is fairly low nickel (especially since I have intuitively removed the food with high nickel), so by chance I've been having low nickel foods since 2021.

@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

How often and for how long do you go outside per week when you say you are 95-99.9% housebound?

I rarely do, and when I do it's for a very short walk. Luckily I have a balcony which functions as an extra room when the weather allows it. I spend most of my time outside for most of the warmer half year, and with the windows and doors wide open.

For comparison, when I had the capacity for it, before I had covid again a couple of years ago, I tried all the typical advice regarding sunlight and grounding. I also spent a lot of time outdoors before I became housebound, and neither grounding or early sunlight seemed to be supportive in ways they were "supposed to". I've had some of my worst PEM after spending time in nature, which was extra difficult because I didn't know what was going on back then.

I found that glucose had much more effect on my circadian rhythm than sunlight early in the morning ever had. I also feel much more grounded now, despite being unable to leave the house much still.

It will be interesting to see what happens when spring comes though. Maybe those interventions can be supportive now that something else appears to have clicked into place.